is it normal for a lann to be contributing only 1 - 6% of the boss damage?

• whocares8128 wrote on 2011-08-29 22:45

  Quote from Intimacy;570851:

  Dropping a corona in the middle of 5 people who have 100 hp lost is what i call crap corona dropping...

  
  
  And attacking without a thought to evasion/defense and then expecting another to step out of battle for a moment to heal you is what I call crap. Unfortunately, for people striving to damage the boss more than anyone else, or at least "carry their weight", this behavior is increasingly common.
  
  How often do people really find themselves forcefully healed by Evies (as they drop Corona) when they're just barely hurt? Isn't it at least some benefit? While it may not have healed for as much as it could have, with a couple of staff Evies in a party, there's more than enough heals to go around, and everyone will be stuck for a couple of minutes before they can be healed again via Corona anyway.
  
  Also, not using corona is like not using a skill (a skill that only helps when [S]you've[/S] someone's been hit). It's more like one of Fiona's new skills, whereupon activating Standing Endurance (meaning she got hit) you can charge forward (similar to another one that works the same way upon being knocked back by a smash when in HS using a small shield, only it doesn't require you to get hurt).
• MareneCorp wrote on 2011-08-29 22:49

  Quote from whocares8128;570902:

  And attacking without a thought to evasion/defense and then expecting another to step out of battle for a moment to heal you is what I call crap. Unfortunately, for people striving to damage the boss more than anyone else, or at least "carry their weight", this behavior is increasingly common.
  
  How often do people really find themselves forcefully healed by Evies (as they drop Corona) when they're just barely hurt? Isn't it at least some benefit? While it may not have healed for as much as it could have, with a couple of staff Evies in a party, there's more than enough heals to go around, and everyone will be stuck for a couple of minutes before they can be healed again via Corona anyway.
  
  Also, not using corona is like not using a skill (a skill that only helps when [S]you've[/S] someone's been hit). It's more like one of Fiona's new skills, whereupon activating Standing Endurance (meaning she got hit) you can charge forward (similar to another one that works the same way upon being knocked back by a smash when in HS using a small shield, only it doesn't require you to get hurt).

  
  
  Bolded is saying EXACTLY what's bad. If someone only lost 100, got healed by crap-placed corona for 100, they'll have to wait TWO MINUTES to be healed again, and in those 2 minutes they can die.
  
  Oh, and the 2 minutes wait applies to all coronas, meaning you simply can't just go to one corona from one person and go to another's immediately after.
• Intimacy wrote on 2011-08-29 22:52

  Quote from whocares8128;570902:

  And attacking without a thought to evasion/defense and then expecting another to step out of battle for a moment to heal you is what I call crap. Unfortunately, for people striving to damage the boss more than anyone else, or at least "carry their weight", this behavior is increasingly common.
  
  How often do people really find themselves forcefully healed by Evies (as they drop Corona) when they're just barely hurt? Isn't it at least some benefit? While it may not have healed for as much as it could have, with a couple of staff Evies in a party, there's more than enough heals to go around, and everyone will be stuck for a couple of minutes before they can be healed again via Corona anyway.
  
  Also, not using corona is like not using a skill (a skill that only helps when [S]you've[/S] someone's been hit). It's more like one of Fiona's new skills, whereupon activating Standing Endurance (meaning she got hit) you can charge forward (similar to another one that works the same way upon being knocked back by a smash when in HS using a small shield, only it doesn't require you to get hurt).

  
  
  >Small shield in daily raids
  
  *Ahem* 100 hp is not worth the corona waste, i've seen it happen many times, I have restored enchant on my tunic for free hp when i get hit, on glas runs and ingkells runs (the two main ones i do) unless i get hit reviving someone else or drinking a potion i can go 100% death free with a few corona's while speeding the run up by 3-5 minutes.
  
  Corona's were made to be used, you don't go around not using or misusing one of your best skills, that reeks of idiocy. I've seen evies run up on ingkells right beside him to heal 3 people who just got poked for 100 damage.
  Now as for "step out of battle for a moment to heal you" that's about 2 seconds to heal the whole party for over 1k each, that's better than the 3 seconds to chug one potion by 1 member. Which one honestly sounds better? On top of that, you are not attacking 100% of the time, when you are running around to gain stamina you can quickly send out a corona.
• whocares8128 wrote on 2011-08-29 23:38
  @MareneCorp In those 2 minutes, maybe they can find time to ... use a potion perhaps?
  I'm not advocating poor Corona placement (nor refraining from using it at all), but at least the Evie cares enough to drop one for the team. Getting upset about being healed by it is pathetic in my opinion.
  
  
  @Intimacy "one of your best skills" - What are you smoking?
  
  About Corona...
  -Using focus at all stops stamina regeneration.
  -It only heals for over 1k if the Evie decided to spend the AP in Corona (over other skills that would allow them to do more damage).
  -It's only takes 2 seconds to heal the whole party if you don't count the travel time for people to go to the Corona, which if it isn't dropped on people (the way you seem to dislike) will be required.
  -It has a limited number of charges (so it won't ever heal the "whole party" in a raid).
  -It also disappears before it can be brought out again even if the charges aren't all consumed.
  
  It's rather annoying as a staff Evie to be grouped with a bunch of people who (unable to be bothered to use HP potions) demand Corona, only to be injured later and have no Corona to go to.
  
  As a closing note, just because staff Evie is rather versatile in her arsenal of skills doesn't mean you can expect her to be all things to everyone all the time.
• Intimacy wrote on 2011-08-29 23:50

  Quote from whocares8128;570957:

  @MareneCorp In those 2 minutes, maybe they can find time to ... use a potion perhaps?
  I'm not advocating poor Corona placement (nor refraining from using it at all), but at least the Evie cares enough to drop one for the team. Getting upset about being healed by it is pathetic in my opinion.
  
  
  @Intimacy "one of your best skills" - What are you smoking?
  
  About Corona...
  -Using focus at all stops stamina regeneration.
  -It only heals for over 1k if the Evie decided to spend the AP in Corona (over other skills that would allow them to do more damage).
  -It's only takes 2 seconds to heal the whole party if you don't count the travel time for people to go to the Corona, which if it isn't dropped on people (the way you seem to dislike) will be required.
  -It has a limited number of charges (so it won't ever heal the "whole party" in a raid).
  -It also disappears before it can be brought out again even if the charges aren't all consumed.
  
  It's rather annoying as a staff Evie to be grouped with a bunch of people who (unable to be bothered to use HP potions) demand Corona, only to be injured later and have no Corona to go to.
  
  As a closing note, just because staff Evie is rather versatile in her arsenal of skills doesn't mean you can expect her to be all things to everyone all the time.

  
  
  A level 68+ evie without maxed corona what are you smoking?
  
  Staffies can drop something at their ass to keep the party alive and forget about it for a few minutes, it takes no more than 2-3 seconds at max and it has saved many many peoples asses. Take ingkells for example you use potions once, chances are he hits you from across the map with his jump attack killing you making you need to revive the dead person. Same with glas and his homing blue lights.
  If you fail to see how great corona's actually are you really are a bad evie to team with.
  
  I use around 3 or less potions a raid from my mistakes while being extremely offensive.
  Dropping something at your ass every 2-3 minutes =/= reviving a dead team mate?
  
  I've been life flared into a corona quite a few times, you have no idea how useful that is to go from 1 hp to 1k+ and out of death risk.
• MareneCorp wrote on 2011-08-30 00:14

  Quote from whocares8128;570957:

  @MareneCorp In those 2 minutes, maybe they can find time to ... use a potion perhaps?
  I'm not advocating poor Corona placement (nor refraining from using it at all), but at least the Evie cares enough to drop one for the team. Getting upset about being healed by it is pathetic in my opinion.
  
  
  @Intimacy "one of your best skills" - What are you smoking?
  
  About Corona...
  -Using focus at all stops stamina regeneration.
  -It only heals for over 1k if the Evie decided to spend the AP in Corona (over other skills that would allow them to do more damage).
  -It's only takes 2 seconds to heal the whole party if you don't count the travel time for people to go to the Corona, which if it isn't dropped on people (the way you seem to dislike) will be required.
  -It has a limited number of charges (so it won't ever heal the "whole party" in a raid).
  -It also disappears before it can be brought out again even if the charges aren't all consumed.
  
  It's rather annoying as a staff Evie to be grouped with a bunch of people who (unable to be bothered to use HP potions) demand Corona, only to be injured later and have no Corona to go to.
  
  As a closing note, just because staff Evie is rather versatile in her arsenal of skills doesn't mean you can expect her to be all things to everyone all the time.

  
  
  Unfortunately, those 2 minutes can be a luxury in some runs. Not everyone has the Merc recovery potions, mind you, and surely anyone would rather be healed in a crucial time by a well-placed corona than be healed when nearly at max hp, have no pots to use, and end up dying, wasting a feather.
• Oizen wrote on 2011-08-30 00:23

  Quote from sakraycore;570819:

  Well I mean staff evie is pretty bad when soloing or small teams but to make up for it she's pretty good in party. Seems pretty balanced to me.
  
  I rather go scythe for smaller parties like 1-3 but for bigger parties yea staff is better cuz you can just keep a fair distance away and spam magic arrows. I don't think it's really fair to compare the characters only in party situations.
  
  One other thing I don't think it's fair to call evies who only spam magic arrows from a distance "bad", because it's pretty smart play tbh. You don't really need to do anything else to get that DPS going...

  
  Can we make up our mind already? Are raids the only thing that matter in this game or not? So many wishywashy arguments between the two. Oh and thats a bunch of BS. You're just not doing it right,
  >Set up golem
  >Set up Mana pistol
  >Blast the monster from a distance
  
  and you're home free
  
  
  

  Quote from MareneCorp;567372:

  R9 fury infusion Ftw. That's about one of the only good things about spears.
  
  And it still takes HP.

  
  Yeah yeah, but you cant use it til you walk around like an old person for a few seconds. Which is why you'll be on the floor dead. 8D
• whocares8128 wrote on 2011-08-30 00:38

  Quote from Intimacy;570963:

  A level 68+ evie without maxed corona what are you smoking?

  
  Okay, I never said that I didn't max Corona, though I have been in a party with Evies 60+ who didn't have it maxed.
  
  

  Staffies can drop something at their ass to keep the party alive and forget about it for a few minutes, it takes no more than 2-3 seconds at max and it has saved many many peoples asses. Take ingkells for example you use potions once, chances are he hits you from across the map with his jump attack killing you making you need to revive the dead person. Same with glas and his homing blue lights.

  
  -see my response to MareneCorp-
  
  

  If you fail to see how great corona's actually are you really are a bad evie to team with.

  
  I see how great a crutch it is for some people. That makes me a bad player?
  
  

  I've been life flared into a corona quite a few times, you have no idea how useful that is to go from 1 hp to 1k+ and out of death risk.

  
  Actually, I do.
  
  
  @MareneCorp
  I also never said anything about merc potions. I don't use them, and I still find time to heal myself via HP potions on Glas. There are moves of his that afford you time to drink a potion where you know he won't use the missile cluster immediately. The same applies Ingkells.
  
  
  To the both of you:
  If we're in a party together I want you to know that I WILL do my best to keep you (and everyone else) alive, but I won't be your guardian angel (as I can't watch over everyone) and I won't apologize if I end up healing you (for a little bit).
• sakraycore wrote on 2011-08-30 00:39

  Can we make up our mind already? Are raids the only thing that matter in this game or not? So many wishywashy arguments between the two. Oh and thats a bunch of BS. You're just not doing it right,
  >Set up golem
  >Set up Mana pistol
  >Blast the monster from a distance
  
  and you're home free
  

  
  
  Scythe can use all of that PLUS a wisp, plus blink so she would be even more home free?
• Intimacy wrote on 2011-08-30 00:41

  Quote from whocares8128;570990:

  Okay, I never said that I didn't max Corona, though I have been in a party with Evies 60+ would didn't have it maxed.
  
  
  -see my response to MareneCorp-
  
  
  I see how great a crutch it is for some people. That makes me a bad player?
  
  
  Actually, I do.
  
  
  @MareneCorp
  I also never said anything about merc potions. I don't use them, and I still find time to heal myself via HP potions on Glas. There are moves of his that afford you time to drink a potion where you know he won't use the missile cluster immediately. The same applies Ingkells.
  
  
  To the both of you:
  If we're in a party together I want you to know that I WILL do my best to keep you (and everyone else alive), but I won't be your guardian angel (as I can't watch over everyone) and I won't apologize if I end up healing you (for a little bit).

  
  
  
  Far from guardian angel, a crutch for the weak, a great tool for the strong, good players don't rely on corona like the next gulp of air, it's just more useful than not to have one on the ground if you need it.
  Also 63+ should have it maxed regardless that comes along with being good as your class in my eyes. It's a skill that helps everyone.
  Remember we are talking about what separates good evies from bad ones. Not maxing something important like that falls below bad.
  
  Also if i stop talking after you post something chances are I'm asleep, 15+ hours so far without it, probably going to crash soon.
• Invertex wrote on 2011-08-30 18:33

  Quote from sakraycore;570991:

  Scythe can use all of that PLUS a wisp, plus blink so she would be even more home free?

  
  Scythe doesn't have a good enough range. That and Scythe is more focused towards burst damage (with those large stamina usage snaps). Staff Evie can sit at a range where Flying Sparrow will get you far enough away to set up again.
  
  @All this Corona stuff
  All I can say is, people did fine before Coronas were implemented (and Staffs were rare + the old heals (which were useless)). I'm not going to tell someone how to play the game, if they should rank or not rank Corona, etc. The main uses for Coronas as far as I'm concerned are the fact
  
  1. They'll heal more then a potion in less time, even counting time it takes to run over to use one. You have to do something similar when waiting to use a HP potion. Bosses like Glas who can easily decide to use a full field attack is where this gets annoying and you end up spending half a minute waiting for Glas to land somewhere not on you.
  2. They don't draw aggro. This is one thing I always hated about using potions on a boss. 80% of the time to boss snaps onto you, runs all the way across the room, just to try and hit you as you're finishing the long animation for using one (E.g. Titan, you have to be across the room and he has to be in middle of an animation for a fully safe potion). It's usually remedied by proper positioning. But it's a pain and slows everything down.
  
  As someone who doesn't play a Staff Evie, I appreciate the thought of even using Corona, but I sometimes just feel there are situations where it's just a waste of both our times. But you'll never please everyone. A few Fiona examples I've run into are having people wanting me to "Get in Irukul's way and stop him" (which is pretty close to impossible, but they wanted me to buy them more time to dodge) while some people want me to "Get out of Irukul's way, I don't get why Fionas always HS everything" (answer to that is SP building, but I was throwing off people's dodge timing by getting in the way).
  
  Simply put, randoms are terrible, there isn't a right or wrong way to use tools in party play, and everyone will hate you for something no matter what you do.
  
  Also, might as well add this disclaimer here. My main problem with Staff Evies are they have too many tools to do things with. Flying Sparrow was implemented before the revamp, and was much needed then. But the revamp was a bit drastic with giving Evies tools to do anything and everything.
• MareneCorp wrote on 2011-08-30 18:55

  Quote from whocares8128;570990:

  Okay, I never said that I didn't max Corona, though I have been in a party with Evies 60+ who didn't have it maxed.
  
  
  -see my response to MareneCorp-
  
  
  I see how great a crutch it is for some people. That makes me a bad player?
  
  
  Actually, I do.
  
  
  @MareneCorp
  I also never said anything about merc potions. I don't use them, and I still find time to heal myself via HP potions on Glas. There are moves of his that afford you time to drink a potion where you know he won't use the missile cluster immediately. The same applies Ingkells.
  
  
  To the both of you:
  If we're in a party together I want you to know that I WILL do my best to keep you (and everyone else) alive, but I won't be your guardian angel (as I can't watch over everyone) and I won't apologize if I end up healing you (for a little bit).

  
  
  You do not try to play and maintain a successful Lann, am I correct? For a class that is so nerfed in every aspect except criticals, we need to try and carry our own weight while staying alive, meaning [more attack time/less pot time]. And I'm pointing out that since we need to do things like that, it's not always convenient to spare even a few seconds to chug a pot, that Merc Recovery pots are chug on the go.
• sakraycore wrote on 2011-08-30 21:00

  Scythe doesn't have a good enough range. That and Scythe is more focused towards burst damage (with those large stamina usage snaps). Staff Evie can sit at a range where Flying Sparrow will get you far enough away to set up again.
  

  
  
  Quake hell has pretty good range, and pretty okay damage considering how spammable it is. For the rest of her attacks, they all pretty much become infinitely spammable once you cast insane reaper which you might as well use it unless you're saving for reverse gravity. Saying staff evie can sit at a range and then run away with flying sparrow is comparable to saying scythe evie can use quake hell then blink out, except blinking is a much more powerful dodge and reduces the risk by a substantial amount.
• Invertex wrote on 2011-08-30 21:13

  Quote from sakraycore;571745:

  Quake hell has pretty good range, and pretty okay damage considering how spammable it is. For the rest of her attacks, they all pretty much become infinitely spammable once you cast insane reaper which you might as well use it unless you're saving for reverse gravity. Saying staff evie can sit at a range and then run away with flying sparrow is comparable to saying scythe evie can use quake hell then blink out, except blinking is a much more powerful dodge and reduces the risk by a substantial amount.

  
  
  I'll stand corrected then, as I haven't really read enough about Scythe Evie in order to form proper opinions. My knowledge extends to the fact that Scythe damage is not as high as staff's, Scythe really need uncaps from rA on multiple skills, and Sctyhe uses a lot of stamina for snaps and blink.
• JkTyrant wrote on 2011-08-31 09:42
  @OP: Err...that depends on how much attack you have? ...I have 13.7k attack (with the Marksmen Badge), and in terms of damage for today's raid I've come:
  
  - #1 in Titan (with trans)
  - #2 in THOR (with trans)
  - #2 in Golem (without trans)
  - #4 Glas (with trans)
  - #4 Ingkells (without trans) << this party was 7 evies, and one sword lann (me)
  
  All the damage ranged from 17%-28%.
  
  Also to add to that, I would say this was possible because I ran pug for all the raids, so not everyone has high dmg wep there.
  When I run raids with my guild (we all have 13k+ att), I usually come around #4-#5 in damage, which is still not so bad.
  
  EDIT:
  If it helps to know,
  SP: Berserk and SP: Slashing High, helps ALOT!! I use these more than SP: Fury 7.