G13 Class System

• Shironi wrote on 2010-07-26 04:01

  Transmutation Mastery

  
  
  XD
  
  Well, I'm looking forward to this update. Only thing that annoys me is no more TRANS MANA SHIELD INVINCIBILITY for giants anymore :P Otherwise, this could be quite good if done right.
• Phunkie wrote on 2010-07-26 04:01

  Quote from Taliya;104647:

  So now that you find out adventurer is decent because it has higher base stats suddenly this idea is crap? Doesn't make sense.
  
  Also, you do get stats from restricted skills.

  
  
  All of it just doesn't make sense.
  
  There needs to be a balance. It doesn't matter if I'm better off than my Wizard buddy or my Alchemist amigo.
  
  It is obvious that all of this is gonna be changed. At least the restrictions.
  
  
  

  Quote from Juno;104680:

  Chill out people~
  
  If you want to keep your crazy hybrid builds no one is stopping you, just go Adventurer. You won't have access a few things that you don't have access to now anyway. Nothing to worry about. The fact that these restrictions are in place is allowing the devs to make individual classes much stronger. People complain magic is too weak and now something is finally being done about it...and they complain that they can't use windmill. It's kind of sad.

  
  
  You need to see the bigger picture, Juno.
  
  Quoted from Nexon forums.
  
  

  for all the people who keep saying "just stay adventurer and you are fine":
  
  no you are not.
  
  -you are losing out on a significant stat/damage bonus from being particular class
  
  -you are also nerfed a huge % in damage due to no masteries
  
  -as already been mentioned, there will most likely be implementing of more class specific skills (much more powerful) which an adventurer will be unable to use.

• Deitylight wrote on 2010-07-26 04:05
  It should be noted that this is still in testing and that change will likely happen anyway.
  For example blaze damage in the test sever did over 1mil(?) from what i was told and then there was racial rebirths.
  So yeah change is coming!
  
  

  Quote from Juno;104680:

  Chill out people~
  
  If you want to keep your crazy hybrid builds no one is stopping you, just go Adventurer. You won't have access a few things that you don't have access to now anyway. Nothing to worry about. The fact that these restrictions are in place is allowing the devs to make individual classes much stronger. People complain magic is too weak and now something is finally being done about it...and they complain that they can't use windmill. It's kind of sad.
  
  The only lifeskills that you can't rank for dex are blacksmithing, tailoring and campfire. The rest have their bonuses transferred to w/e class you are. Ranged attacks also transfer for all races with the exception of Crash Shot and Support Shot which are bard only.
  
  What people seem to be missing is that each respective combat area got buffed and hybrids not nerfed...just simply not buffed as well.

  
  
  Wasn't adventures damage nerfed to make weaker but still capable of doing what we do now only a tad weaker?
• JustNoOne wrote on 2010-07-26 04:13

  Quote from Juno;104680:

  Chill out people~
  
  If you want to keep your crazy hybrid builds no one is stopping you, just go Adventurer. You won't have access a few things that you don't have access to now anyway. Nothing to worry about. The fact that these restrictions are in place is allowing the devs to make individual classes much stronger. People complain magic is too weak and now something is finally being done about it...and they complain that they can't use windmill. It's kind of sad.
  
  The only lifeskills that you can't rank for dex are blacksmithing, tailoring and campfire. The rest have their bonuses transferred to w/e class you are. Ranged attacks also transfer for all races with the exception of Crash Shot and Support Shot which are bard only.
  
  What people seem to be missing is that each respective combat area got buffed and hybrids not nerfed...just simply not buffed as well.

  
  
  Juno, some people do want access to certain things like Hailstorm or Down Attack but are rejected because of the class system. The class restriction might make a certain section of Mabinogi "stronger" but it infringes on the idea that Mabinogi is a "fantasy life" where you can do whatever you want. Giving a buff to Wizards is one thing but giving them a special skill while taking away from them Windmill, Blacksmithing, other potential skills them gives them Intelligence, and other combat moves that might aid them is another. Removing skills because they "shouldn't do x skill because they are of a certain class" is not the right thing to do because you're removing benefits that a player has worked to achieve.
  
  

  Quote from Zid;104669:

  Picture of negative stat occurring after changing class with ranked class-specific mastery.

  
  
  You lose stats like Dexterity if you switch from Adventurer to Knight, no more Dex, no more high balance. Proof is above.
  
  And sure each respective class may have gotten a buff, but do you need to split them into classes for them to get a buff? Why can't you give it to everyone? Like what DevCat has been doing since well... before this idea started? And if you really want to see restriction implemented, one suggestion would be to restrict it to a certain type of weapon like Hailstorm for only staves, Sword Mastery for swords, ect. rather than adding an additional clause like you have to be a certain class.
• rinaek wrote on 2010-07-26 04:15

  Quote from Juno;104375:

  Mages can't use potion making but they now have a massive mana pool. At total lvl 1/1 a giant mage has ~230 mana. They get huge mana boosts for lvling (+30 I heard, but unconfirmed) so they won't need to use pots nearly as much. It's also not difficult to have one of your three free characters in a class where they can make potions, or just buy from someone else.
  

  
  
  I have to agree with most of what you say, in that the game is still the same, there's little disadvantage in not picking a class, you just get a few extra quirks for doing so.
  
  Restricting mages from Potion making, though, I have to disagree with. It's takes quite a while and quite a bit of money to raise the skill to a point where you can reliably produce MP100's without failures; repeating the process on an alt is just not feasible, especially since you'll also have to rank production mastery. I wouldn't mind as much if the skill was partially restricted, in which you can still use it, just not train it. But this way, mages will probably have to go adventurer every once in a while to stockpile tons of potions, and go back to wizard.
  
  With this class systems, I'm sure the demand for potions will go even higher, since the majority of pot makers (most of them the mages) won't be able to make potions. Buying will cost much more than now.
  
  Sure, high max MP is nice and all, but with the HP nerfs, wizards need mana shield to survive. Besides, high max MP doesn't mean you can run dungeons without using potions, it just means that it'll be longer before you have to use them; the cost of running long dungeons will be quite high. There's some recovery from trans, but probably not enough.
  
  This wouldn't be as much of a problem if Mana Elixirs were still around in NA, since they essentially refill your mana to full. Even if Mana Shield reduces the duration like crazy, it doesn't matter, since it's still a free refill of several hundred MP.
• Zid wrote on 2010-07-26 04:18

  Quote from Juno;104680:

  If you want to keep your crazy hybrid builds no one is stopping you, just go Adventurer. You won't have access a few things that you don't have access to now anyway. Nothing to worry about. The fact that these restrictions are in place is allowing the devs to make individual classes much stronger. People complain magic is too weak and now something is finally being done about it...and they complain that they can't use windmill. It's kind of sad.

  
  
  Yes, we can play Adventurer if we wanted to. It's a choice, after all. At least the director gave the players a choice to change classes whenever via rebirth.
  
  However, I disagree with the effectiveness of using a class system to justify buffing this and nerfing that. In fact, I would much prefer a rebalancing of things (like magic effectiveness buff if something else is nerfed), instead of creating a class (Mage). In that sense, using a class to rebalance seems like a small-effort response compared to actual rebalancing affecting the "default" class we are all in right now.
  
  

  Quote from Juno;104680:

  What people seem to be missing is that each respective combat area got buffed and hybrids not nerfed...just simply not buffed as well.

  
  
  It sounds like a nice idea, to buff specific skill fields without nerfing others or the hybrid ideology, by using a class system. But to some people, the cons of the Mabinogi class system outweigh (sometimes by far) the pros of it. In honest opinions, it becomes to the point where people say "It's optional, but I'm staying in the Adventurer class for the same old, same old" just because the rest of the classes and the system itself have flaws in them that makes a lot of people want to stay in the pre-G13 character, Adventurer. The way it seems right now, the class system feels tacked on and actually "backwards" in player progression.
  
  It's still a test server though, and so I'm not willing to condemn the system, but only if it works and fits into Mabinogi, complementing it. So far, it doesn't seem to, at least to me.
• Kyouriharu wrote on 2010-07-26 04:19
  They should get rid of the new masteries then. Seems that's what everyone is complaining about.
• Deitylight wrote on 2010-07-26 04:23

  Quote from Kyouriharu;104701:

  They should get rid of the new masteries then. Seems that's what everyone is complaining about.

  
  
  The restrictions are the problem not the masteries like someone said if the jack of all trades got a hold of them they would be OP.
  But maybe that's what we need and not the classes although classes might not be a bad idea but i recommend rebalancing the class system.
• Kyouriharu wrote on 2010-07-26 04:33

  Quote from Deitylight;104705:

  The restrictions are the problem not the masteries like someone said if the jack of all trades got a hold of them they would be OP.
  But maybe that's what we need and not the classes although classes might not be a bad idea but i recommend rebalancing the class system.

  
  
  I believe if the masteries were just erased from existence and no one would know about them then there would be less complaining about classes. I do understand about the limitations of skills but honestly I've never seen a self-proclaimed "Knight" use advanced magic for more than one day a week. Neither a "Mage" use alchemy. It's perhaps because that Ranged doesn't have a Mastery and didn't have a point of "over-poweredness" during the testing phase, but I'm just neutral on the stance of classes. As Phunkie pointed it out in his quote, the difference from being a hybrid than specializing is the damage boost by specializing, and most of this damage boost is from the masteries.
• Kyouriharu wrote on 2010-07-26 04:33

  Quote from Deitylight;104705:

  The restrictions are the problem not the masteries like someone said if the jack of all trades got a hold of them they would be OP.
  But maybe that's what we need and not the classes although classes might not be a bad idea but i recommend rebalancing the class system.

  
  
  I believe if the masteries were just erased from existence and no one would know about them then there would be less complaining about classes. I do understand about the limitations of skills but honestly I've never seen a self-proclaimed "Knight" use advanced magic for more than one day a week. Neither a "Mage" use alchemy. It's perhaps because that Ranged doesn't have a Mastery and didn't have a point of "over-poweredness" during the testing phase, but I'm just neutral on the stance of classes. As Phunkie pointed it out in his quote, the difference from being a hybrid than specializing is the damage boost by specializing, and most of this damage boost is from the masteries.
• Zeo wrote on 2010-07-26 04:35

  Quote from Kyouriharu;104708:

  I believe if the masteries were just erased from existence and no one would know about them then there would be less complaining about classes. I do understand about the limitations of skills but honestly I've never seen a self-proclaimed "Knight" use advanced magic for more than one day a week. Neither a "Mage" use alchemy. It's perhaps because that Ranged doesn't have a Mastery and didn't have a point of "over-poweredness" during the testing phase, but I'm just neutral on the stance of classes. As Phunkie pointed it out in his quote, the difference from being a hybrid than specializing is the damage boost by specializing, and most of this damage boost is from the masteries.

  
  
  I got to disagree with you on that bolded part. I'm a mage and alchemist hybrid, and I find alchemy to be very useful back-up skills, when you runs out of the Manas, and it helped me a lot.
• Kyouriharu wrote on 2010-07-26 04:36

  Quote from Zeo;104710:

  I got to disagree with you on that bolded part. I'm a mage and alchemist hybrid, and I find alchemy to be very useful back-up skills, when you runs out of the Manas, and it helped me a lot.

  
  
  That was ment merely as an over exaggeration. But more or less, it does deliver the picture.
• Phunkie wrote on 2010-07-26 04:37
  Yup, yup.
  
  Alchemy's a great support skill set.
  
  I use Frozen Blast all the time. :D And Archers love Barrier Spikes.
  
  Both very useful.
  
  However, I agree. A lot of people stick to one type of fighting mostly.
• Kazuni wrote on 2010-07-26 04:43
  Yeah why don't you just go and change the server names to Scania, Windia, Bera, and Broa?
  
  This is so stupid. Melee is basically getting a ton of buffs, and all the better if you didn't do magic or ranged, mages have been screwed over, alchemy can basically make up for any loss of melee and magic with golem and ranged attacks.
  
  And what. Archers get stuck into a useless bard category which has no relation to it, probably because someone was too freaking lazy to give us our own class. Everyone's getting buffs and crap (except mages, perhaps), and what do they give to the archers? Instrument weapons, which are probably melee and useless for most elves. Yay!
  
  
  If they overpower the classes and nerf the adventurers I'm going to ragequit no matter how much time and money I spent on this game.
  
  
  
  Ah what the hell, posts are jumping everywhere.
• Kazuni wrote on 2010-07-26 04:44
  Yeah why don't you just go and change the server names to Scania, Windia, Bera, and Broa?
  
  This is so stupid. Melee is basically getting a ton of buffs, and all the better if you didn't do magic or ranged, mages have been screwed over, alchemy can basically make up for any loss of melee and magic with golem and ranged attacks.
  
  And what. Archers get stuck into a useless bard category which has no relation to it, probably because someone was too freaking lazy to give us our own class. Everyone's getting buffs and crap (except mages, perhaps), and what do they give to the archers? Instrument weapons, which are probably melee and useless for most elves. Yay!
  
  
  If they overpower the classes and nerf the adventurers I'm going to ragequit no matter how much time and money I spent on this game.