Quote from Phunkie;104685:
You need to see the bigger picture, Juno.
You can't complain that Class A gets more of a certain stat than you since they can't use as many skills and get a negative value for some other stat. Essentially what you're saying is "That specialized class is better at the one thing that it does than I am, despite my being able to do everything very well." Frankly, that's silly.
Quote from Deitylight;104686:
Wasn't adventures damage nerfed to make weaker but still capable of doing what we do now only a tad weaker?
That was just speculation by a very pessimistic person. There's nothing to back it up.
Quote from JustNoOne;104691:
Juno, some people do want access to certain things like Hailstorm or Down Attack but are rejected because of the class system. The class restriction might make a certain section of Mabinogi "stronger" but it infringes on the idea that Mabinogi is a "fantasy life" where you can do whatever you want. Giving a buff to Wizards is one thing but giving them a special skill while taking away from them Windmill, Blacksmithing, other potential skills them gives them Intelligence, and other combat moves that might aid them is another. Removing skills because they "shouldn't do x skill because they are of a certain class" is not the right thing to do because you're removing benefits that a player has worked to achieve.
You lose stats like Dexterity if you switch from Adventurer to Knight, no more Dex, no more high balance. Proof is above.
And sure each respective class may have gotten a buff, but do you need to split them into classes for them to get a buff? Why can't you give it to everyone? Like what DevCat has been doing since well... before this idea started? And if you really want to see restriction implemented, one suggestion would be to restrict it to a certain type of weapon like Hailstorm for only staves, Sword Mastery for swords, ect. rather than adding an additional clause like you have to be a certain class.
First off, mages as we know them today are not made less viable by this class system. There's the magic nerf, but that's a different story.
The reason why Hailstorm is class specific and why any skills are class-specific is for balancing reasons. The reason classes are necessary is because mixing skills from different sets makes them more powerful...so you can't give any class a truly powerful skill without making players too strong. Because of that hybrid was the
only way to go which if I want to just be a mage or Knight isn't my fantasy. Now you can still go hybrid, but if you want to just stick to one area you get access to skills that make your combat prowess viable without relying on other skillsets. Note, if it suits your fancy you can still learn them. Switching classes is easy and free.
Quote from rinaek;104695:
I have to agree with most of what you say, in that the game is still the same, there's little disadvantage in not picking a class, you just get a few extra quirks for doing so.
Restricting mages from Potion making, though, I have to disagree with. It's takes quite a while and quite a bit of money to raise the skill to a point where you can reliably produce MP100's without failures; repeating the process on an alt is just not feasible, especially since you'll also have to rank production mastery. I wouldn't mind as much if the skill was partially restricted, in which you can still use it, just not train it. But this way, mages will probably have to go adventurer every once in a while to stockpile tons of potions, and go back to wizard.
With this class systems, I'm sure the demand for potions will go even higher, since the majority of pot makers (most of them the mages) won't be able to make potions. Buying will cost much more than now.
Sure, high max MP is nice and all, but with the HP nerfs, wizards need mana shield to survive. Besides, high max MP doesn't mean you can run dungeons without using potions, it just means that it'll be longer before you have to use them; the cost of running long dungeons will be quite high. There's some recovery from trans, but probably not enough.
This wouldn't be as much of a problem if Mana Elixirs were still around in NA, since they essentially refill your mana to full. Even if Mana Shield reduces the duration like crazy, it doesn't matter, since it's still a free refill of several hundred MP.
Let's say you start with 100 base mana and gain 30 mana per lvl. At lvl 40/10 you'll have 1.6k mana before enchants, titles and skills. Now throw in the mana reduction included in the masteries, Hailstorm doing a great deal of DoT for it's 57 (before reduction) mp cost and bolt composer decreasing the need for int/adv magic and things start to look up. Assuming you fully charge thunder with only 10% reduction you can get 16 full charge thunders off with that mp before regeneration and hits taken. And if you lvl up, your counter resets to 16~
It's definitely a ploy to create a market (which I appreciate) but I think it was countered well. Potions for mages are now less of a must have. I suspect Meditation will be buffed for mages as well or base regen rates since both are rather pathetic as is.
Quote from Zid;104699:
Yes, we can play Adventurer if we wanted to. It's a choice, after all. At least the director gave the players a choice to change classes whenever via rebirth.
However, I disagree with the effectiveness of using a class system to justify buffing this and nerfing that. In fact, I would much prefer a rebalancing of things (like magic effectiveness buff if something else is nerfed), instead of creating a class (Mage). In that sense, using a class to rebalance seems like a small-effort response compared to actual rebalancing affecting the "default" class we are all in right now.
It sounds like a nice idea, to buff specific skill fields without nerfing others or the hybrid ideology, by using a class system. But to some people, the cons of the Mabinogi class system outweigh (sometimes by far) the pros of it. In honest opinions, it becomes to the point where people say "It's optional, but I'm staying in the Adventurer class for the same old, same old" just because the rest of the classes and the system itself have flaws in them that makes a lot of people want to stay in the pre-G13 character, Adventurer. The way it seems right now, the class system feels tacked on and actually "backwards" in player progression.
It's still a test server though, and so I'm not willing to condemn the system, but only if it works and fits into Mabinogi, complementing it. So far, it doesn't seem to, at least to me.
That's the thing, it's not possible to balance a classless game. If you buff one area, you buff them all. If you nerf one area, you nerf them all. There are countless combos available that use 3 or more different combat types. If you nerf one skill to make the combo less overpowered then that skillset suffers.
Now, hybrids can keep on with their mix combos while people who specialize don't have to have their power limited to w/e keeps the hybrids from breaking the world. At the same time, you're free to abstain from classes or flip-flop...I think it's a pretty good solution as far as fitting into the mabinogi world goes.
Quote from Kazuni;104715:
Yeah why don't you just go and change the server names to Scania, Windia, Bera, and Broa?
This is so stupid. Melee is basically getting a ton of buffs, and all the better if you didn't do magic or ranged, mages have been screwed over, alchemy can basically make up for any loss of melee and magic with golem and ranged attacks.
And what. Archers get stuck into a useless bard category which has no relation to it, probably because someone was too freaking lazy to give us our own class. Everyone's getting buffs and crap (except mages, perhaps), and what do they give to the archers? Instrument weapons, which are probably melee and useless for most elves. Yay!
If they overpower the classes and nerf the adventurers I'm going to ragequit no matter how much time and money I spent on this game.
Ah what the hell, posts are jumping everywhere.
Melee -needed- the buffs. It's the only skillset that requires you to run into the middle of multi-aggro enemies and dispatch them one at a time or slowly whittle away your hp with wm. You need to either be able to down the enemies quickly or exploit your 16 throughbreds to keep monsters off you while you mill spam...and hope you don't miss an archer/mage/alchemist. It was ok before because there was always range to fall back on, but take that away and they really need to be able to lay down the law.
The bard class isn't named well, but it does give ranged attack bonuses and more dex/stam on lvling. HP too I believe. Crash Shot is actually pretty good now that it has no cooldown and support shot will make archers invaluable in party play. Of course, you have the option to stay adventurer if you want and make use of barrier spikes for easy mode arching.