G13 Class System

• Phunkie wrote on 2010-07-26 00:08
  Testing.
• Juno wrote on 2010-07-26 00:25

  Quote from JustNoOne;104001:

  Well that's okay if Adventurers aren't the best at everything, as long as they have access to everything I'm perfectly fine with it, but restricting people because they chose x path doesn't feel right too me, I mean, if you've achieved x skill (for example ice spear) and you chose to be a bard, shouldn't you have the option to use it regardless of the class you chose? I mean, it's the skill you took time to rank and you should have the ability to use it. I'm just paranoid about if this update will restrict us, because I don't want to be stripped of my right to use a skill I earn just because I switched classes.
  
  Also why can't I be the master of all things or why cant' I go solo? I see no reason why I shouldn't be the master of all things or be a soloist, investing a little in Alchemy, Combat and Magic should be allowed if the player desires to do this, and to nerf combat damage and magic damage for those that are Adventures isn't helping the situation at all. It just makes thing ever-so-more complicated and thus the player will end up having to switch classes.
  
  And this is not "fantasy life" to me at all, to be somewhat "forced" to change classes because someone what they want isn't "fantasy life" at all, I have to change to x class if I want to be good at this aspect at Mabinogi.
  
  Why not just have the ability to be good at all?

  
  
  The problem is things like Charge -> Frozen Blast or Charge -> Ice Spear -> Blaze. By mixing things like that you create combos that are way too powerful. With this new system you can still do that as an adventurer (hence your hybrid power) but a Knight, Mage or Alchemist would be better at using just one of those skills. In order to buff one set of skills without inadvertently buffing all the others, restrictions had to be put in.
  
  Also, you can still be the master of all things you have now. This update doesn't make anyone weaker.
  
  

  Quote from Kaeporo;104241:

  Wizard: Fail
  + Trinity Staff
  + Hailstorm
  + Bolt Composer
  + Intelligence formula improvement
  -- Increased AP requirement <-unconfirmed
  -- Intermediate magic damage cut 20%
  -- Blaze damage cut 40%
  -- Wizards unable to use windmill
  -- Melée skills nerfed heavily
  
  Knight: Awesome
  + Leap Attack
  + Significantly Improved melée skills
  + Weapon mastery skills
  -- Unable to use intermediate/advanced magic
  
  Bard: Super Dumb
  + Lure of Ballad
  + Combat Instruments
  ?? How the hell does this class benefit archers? Range damage boost and dex/stam boost
  
  Adventurer: Balanced
  + Jack of all trades
  -- Cannot use specialized equipment/skills to maximum effectiveness But can use skill combos unavailable to other classes
  
  Merchant: < Total Suck-fest
  + Life skill success rate improvement
  + Improved life skill product quality
  -- Everything Merchants get experience from using skills. Tailoring for example gives as much exp as killing mobs.
  
  Alchemist: OP
  + New cylinders
  + New alchemy mastery skills
  + Massive, extremely powerful golems
  + Alchemy damage surpasses all other forms of combat At the cost of cast times and potentially bothersome preparation long before.
  -- Decreased melée effectiveness
  
  Range/magic halp!

  
  
  Bolded~
  
  

  Quote from Beepuke;104262:

  You guys are so optimistic. Let me break some of that optimism. Knights will not be able to use Mana shield. Mages will not be able to use potion making. Adventurers cannot train any of the new G13 skills. Alchemists cannot use dodge, windmill, mana shield, and they will not get the hp bonus from combat mastery. Of course, there's more but these are some of the highlights. Unless the class system gets seriously revamped by the time it hits NA, I don't see how it can be enjoyable.

  
  
  Mana shield on a knight didn't make sense in the first place. To compensate they get much higher hp and presumably armor with extra defense. In other words they tank like knights now.
  
  Mages can't use potion making but they now have a massive mana pool. At total lvl 1/1 a giant mage has ~230 mana. They get huge mana boosts for lvling (+30 I heard, but unconfirmed) so they won't need to use pots nearly as much. It's also not difficult to have one of your three free characters in a class where they can make potions, or just buy from someone else.
  
  Alchemists don't need evasion or windmill. Their skills don't even put them in the thick of combat or at least allow them to spam enemies away or just use barrier spikes to safeguard themselves. I'm not too upset that alchemists now have to rely on alchemy...and don't forget adventurers can still use all applicable alchemy, evasion and windmill.
  
  I think you're being pessimistic~
  
  It makes sense that the new classes get class specific stuff. They lose out on a lot and therefore deserve to gain a lot.
• pkMaster wrote on 2010-07-26 00:27

  Quote from EndlessDreams;104328:

  How about this chart for skills?
  Nexon Forums - G13 KR test server class skills
  

  
  
  Oh man, looking at that is such a kill joy.
  
  WTH happened to, "Do whatever you want, when ever you want?" I seriously hope they consider changing some stuff, cuz this is WAAYYYY too restrictive.
• Phunkie wrote on 2010-07-26 00:34
  Why can't it be like in DFO?
  
  You get to use the basic skills of other classes, but you get your own advanced skills for your class.
  
  This is just in Test Server, so it can change and it most likely will.
  
  This is too restrictive.
• Phanterz wrote on 2010-07-26 00:35

  Quote from Zid;104343:

  User:Tellos/G13 - Mabinogi World Wiki
  
  His views may be biased, but he has a few objective points. He also pointed out some nerfs in classes, involving the Adventurer class, I think.
  
  At this point in Mabinogi, the issue of Magic vs. Alchemy is there again.

  
  
  Alchemy wins.
  
  Also I just realized that DK's are completely screwed. **** this.
  
  

  Quote from Zid;104343:

  User:Tellos/G13 - Mabinogi World Wiki
  
  His views may be biased, but he has a few objective points. He also pointed out some nerfs in classes, involving the Adventurer class, I think.
  
  At this point in Mabinogi, the issue of Magic vs. Alchemy is there again.

  
  
  Alchemy wins.
  
  Also I just realized that DK's are completely screwed. **** this. If we don't have a redemption possibility, more than half the players will have the crappiest excuse for a trans ever fabricated. (And even if we do, I will probably never see another Infrablack as long as I play.)
  
  If devcat wants diversity between classes, the penalties have to be severely reduced.
  
  Edit: Accidentally double posted instead of editing, sorry :X
• Cide wrote on 2010-07-26 00:44
  i've read that it's possible for a bard to learn even race-locked range skills.
  
  elves with ar mean human range becomes more or less obsolete barring their quicker aim speed. :U
• Phunkie wrote on 2010-07-26 00:44

  Quote from Cide;104401:

  i've read that it's possible for a bard to learn even race-locked range skills.
  
  elves with ar mean human range becomes more or less obsolete barring their quicker aim speed. :U

  
  
  I'm pretty sure that will never happen.
• Phunkie wrote on 2010-07-26 00:45

  Quote from Cide;104401:

  i've read that it's possible for a bard to learn even race-locked range skills.
  
  elves with ar mean human range becomes more or less obsolete barring their quicker aim speed. :U

  
  
  I'm pretty sure that will never happen.
• Axx wrote on 2010-07-26 00:59
  So as a mana-shield abusing elf archer who uses spikes for the tougher mobs (and was planning on ranking golem for SCC)...I have to stay adventurer?
• paladin wrote on 2010-07-26 01:10
  At best id be good to see it like this
  Class are released but the basic adventurer is not changed and stay as it is
  New skills relased could be released in 2 parts adventure and class type
  Adventure would be like a humans level shared skill ie windmill,class type would be like giants windmill easier to level and stronger
  I really dont want them to kill the adventurer that badly,its fantasy life please let us have our life and not kill it with locking us to a class or being weak
• paladin wrote on 2010-07-26 01:11
  At best id be good to see it like this
  Class are released but the basic adventurer is not changed and stay as it is
  New skills relased could be released in 2 parts adventure and class type
  Adventure would be like a humans level shared skill ie windmill,class type would be like giants windmill easier to level and stronger
  I really dont want them to kill the adventurer that badly,its fantasy life please let us have our life and not kill it with locking us to a class or being weak
• JustNoOne wrote on 2010-07-26 01:13

  Quote from Juno;104375:

  The problem is things like Charge -> Frozen Blast or Charge -> Ice Spear -> Blaze. By mixing things like that you create combos that are way too powerful. With this new system you can still do that as an adventurer (hence your hybrid power) but a Knight, Mage or Alchemist would be better at using just one of those skills. In order to buff one set of skills without inadvertently buffing all the others, restrictions had to be put in.
  
  Also, you can still be the master of all things you have now. This update doesn't make anyone weaker.
  

  
  
  Is there a problem with things being "way too powerful"? I don't see why you need to restrict the user from doing x tactic or x skill; you're literally chopping off a person's leg. It's just not fair at all. This just limits the player's option of facing against certain situations, and if you want to go solo, too bad, you'll just get coal.
  
  As well if one person were to buff one set of skill without buffing other sets of skills, why not allow the user to have the choice to do so? Why put a restriction onto the person and indirectly telling them "You can only rank these skills since you chose this class."? The concept of classes restricting you too certain skills sort of breaks the idea of what Mabinogi is no? Isn't Mabinogi's unique characteristic that you can have a "fantasy life", do to what you desire and not have something forcefully limiting you? (Of course there are race-only skills, but this is on a large scale, which is in it's own spectrum)
  
  Also this update does make everyone weaker, since "everyone" is an Adventurer right now, technically we're going to be weaker.
  
  P.S. How did this post get all the way up here? O.O
• pkMaster wrote on 2010-07-26 01:38

  Quote from JustNoOne;104463:

  Is there a problem with things being "way too powerful"? I don't see why you need to restrict the user from doing x tactic or x skill; you're literally chopping off a person's leg. It's just not fair at all. This just limits the player's option of facing against certain situations, and if you want to go solo, too bad, you'll just get coal.
  
  As well if one person were to buff one set of skill without buffing other sets of skills, why not allow the user to have the choice to do so? Why put a restriction onto the person and indirectly telling them "You can only rank these skills since you chose this class."? The concept of classes restricting you too certain skills sort of breaks the idea of what Mabinogi is no? Isn't Mabinogi's unique characteristic that you can have a "fantasy life", do to what you desire and not have something forcefully limiting you? (Of course there are race-only skills, but this is on a large scale, which is in it's own spectrum)
  
  Also this update does make everyone weaker, since "everyone" is an Adventurer right now, technically we're going to be weaker.
  
  P.S. How did this post get all the way up here? O.O

  
  
  Well, technically adventurer's don't become any weaker than they already are, but you do end up sacrificing that extra bit of strength offered by other classes for versitility. That's kinda the downfall of having classes like this, cuz if they don't pay attention to all the classes, then some classes might end up becoming obsolete.
  
  Of course, there's still the question of whether or not you gain any stats for training skills that are locked for other classes. For instance, say I wanna rank up my ranged skills as a knight for the extra dexterity needed to weild 222 broads. If I want to rank up those skills, I'd have to become either and Adventurer or a Bard to level up those skills. But if I can't keep any of the dex gained from those skills as a Knight, then there's no point in training those skills.
  
  Now the big problem with this is that most people here who have played this game for a decent amount of time have already trained skills of various skill types and if the above statement remains true, not only will changing classes limit our pool of available skills, but it will also make us considerably weaker.
• Taliya wrote on 2010-07-26 01:41

  Quote from JustNoOne;104463:

  Is there a problem with things being "way too powerful"? I don't see why you need to restrict the user from doing x tactic or x skill; you're literally chopping off a person's leg. It's just not fair at all. This just limits the player's option of facing against certain situations, and if you want to go solo, too bad, you'll just get coal.
  
  As well if one person were to buff one set of skill without buffing other sets of skills, why not allow the user to have the choice to do so? Why put a restriction onto the person and indirectly telling them "You can only rank these skills since you chose this class."? The concept of classes restricting you too certain skills sort of breaks the idea of what Mabinogi is no? Isn't Mabinogi's unique characteristic that you can have a "fantasy life", do to what you desire and not have something forcefully limiting you? (Of course there are race-only skills, but this is on a large scale, which is in it's own spectrum)
  
  Also this update does make everyone weaker, since "everyone" is an Adventurer right now, technically we're going to be weaker.
  
  P.S. How did this post get all the way up here? O.O

  
  
  They're not restricting you. Think of adventurers as Comboist. Your individual skills won't be as damaging BUT you get to combo from one skill to the next like none of the other classes can making you a lot more powerful in that respect. So when you think of it like that. Adventurer doesn't sound so bad.
• Taliya wrote on 2010-07-26 01:41

  Quote from JustNoOne;104463:

  Is there a problem with things being "way too powerful"? I don't see why you need to restrict the user from doing x tactic or x skill; you're literally chopping off a person's leg. It's just not fair at all. This just limits the player's option of facing against certain situations, and if you want to go solo, too bad, you'll just get coal.
  
  As well if one person were to buff one set of skill without buffing other sets of skills, why not allow the user to have the choice to do so? Why put a restriction onto the person and indirectly telling them "You can only rank these skills since you chose this class."? The concept of classes restricting you too certain skills sort of breaks the idea of what Mabinogi is no? Isn't Mabinogi's unique characteristic that you can have a "fantasy life", do to what you desire and not have something forcefully limiting you? (Of course there are race-only skills, but this is on a large scale, which is in it's own spectrum)
  
  Also this update does make everyone weaker, since "everyone" is an Adventurer right now, technically we're going to be weaker.
  
  P.S. How did this post get all the way up here? O.O

  
  
  They're not restricting you. Think of adventurers as Comboist. Your individual skills won't be as damaging BUT you get to combo from one skill to the next like none of the other classes can making you a lot more powerful in that respect. So when you think of it like that. Adventurer doesn't sound so bad.