Mages Should At Least Keep Windmill

• Justified wrote on 2010-07-26 14:35
  Going Wizard implies high ranked magic.
  Getting multiaggroed when you have 2000 range multi-target spells that can deal 3000 base damage and/or immobilize for 3-8 seconds, followed by a knockback regardless of passive defense - and you still need Windmill means you fail pretty hard.
  
  If I use Windmill with Advance Magic, it's mostly for lulz because hitting multiple targets is fun. I've very very rarely ever needed to use it to get out of a messy situation. Plus Wand stun is pretty fail. Saying that there are some mobs you can't defeat with magic isn't very strong either. Aside from magic-immune mobs, there's nothing that stunlocking can't solve, and Firebolt and Ice Spear handle that pretty well.
• Zid wrote on 2010-07-26 15:29

  Quote from Justified;105145:

  Going Wizard implies high ranked magic.
  Getting multiaggroed when you have 2000 range multi-target spells that can deal 3000 base damage and/or immobilize for 3-8 seconds, followed by a knockback regardless of passive defense - and you still need Windmill means you fail pretty hard.
  
  If I use Windmill with Advance Magic, it's mostly for lulz because hitting multiple targets is fun. I've very very rarely ever needed to use it to get out of a messy situation. Plus Wand stun is pretty fail. Saying that there are some mobs you can't defeat with magic isn't very strong either. Aside from magic-immune mobs, there's nothing that stunlocking can't solve, and Firebolt and Ice Spear handle that pretty well.

  
  
  That's kind of the point though. You demonstrated that, while it seems unnecessary for a proper Wizard to have Windmill, you still used it, even if it's out of 1/1000 magic-oriented combat situation. Even if you used Windmill very very rarely to get out of a messy situation, would the outcome be different if you hadn't? Human error shouldn't be penalized in such a severe manner if you're a Wizard.
  
  It's unrealistic to believe that a high-lvl Wizard (or anybody, for that matter) can go train for EXP in soloing Ciar Advanced passes per rebirth, and not be in a messy situation every once in a while. Even if these classes are meant to promote party play, that does not leave out whims to solo, especially for EXP because of Mabinogi's system (with the general exception of Shadow Missions, but that's a whole other matter).
  
  And I'm as sure as anybody else that having Mana Shield as a fallback against multi-aggro is questionable in its efficiency vs. just Windmill the mob and loading an Ice Spear during the spinning animation.
• Aubog007 wrote on 2010-07-26 16:24
  Wizards need WM or else how are they gonna do Their Method? Lol...
• Moppy wrote on 2010-07-26 16:28
  That's why you go with a Knight when you do runs.
  
  Everyone is so used to being able to adapt to every situation, now you can't. Either you start befriending people who use other classes, or you cast your magic as quickly as possible.
  
  This just shows that if you want to solo, don't go wizard.
• Juno wrote on 2010-07-26 16:50

  Quote from IceBlade;105121:

  How does a 3 second single target attack replace a 0.8 second multi target one? How are you suppose to handle multi-aggro with that?

  
  
  It's not a replacement per se, it's an alternate means of doing so. Like all other magic it has a cast time but once prepared you can unleash enough for most any situation. If you find yourself in a place where you only have 0.8s to kb a bunch of mobs, you're doing it wrong.
  
  

  Quote from Zid:

  It's unrealistic to believe that a high-lvl Wizard (or anybody, for that matter) can go train for EXP in soloing Ciar Advanced passes per rebirth, and not be in a messy situation every once in a while. Even if these classes are meant to promote party play, that does not leave out whims to solo, especially for EXP because of Mabinogi's system (with the general exception of Shadow Missions, but that's a whole other matter).

  
  
  Right now, giants can't do anything on the raft and even less on balloons. Melee gets worked hard in certain shadow missions and range can't rely on it's stun with certain bosses. Close range combat is also a no-no in rabbie adv without expensive equipment. Not all areas need be open to all people. If you can't handle X dungeon as a mage, go somewhere else.
• Mario wrote on 2010-07-26 17:59
  Hmm.. This is what I think but I think mages should train counter attack more instead of windmill.(I know this has nothing to do with first post.... shouldn't it be in spam zone?)
• Zid wrote on 2010-07-26 18:10

  Quote from Juno;105245:

  Right now, giants can't do anything on the raft and even less on balloons. Melee gets worked hard in certain shadow missions and range can't rely on it's stun with certain bosses. Close range combat is also a no-no in rabbie adv without expensive equipment. Not all areas need be open to all people. If you can't handle X dungeon as a mage, go somewhere else.

  
  
  Still, later on, Giants can do rafting and ballooning, right? Sooner or later, you'll have to run into Magic/Alchemy. A mid or high-lvl Giant can do so. A lvl 1k Giant can have and use Thunder if needed to.
  
  Stick a lvl 1k Knight Giant on a raft, and well... pretty useless there.
  
  If the intent of the G13 classes are to make some classes easy-to-solo and others not, I'd understand. But nothing's official, and with a Mabinogi community where some (if not a majority) of the players follow a solo way of endgame, having choices where some of them doesn't allow soloing of x dungeon doesn't fit into Mabinogi as it is at all.
  
  A Knight can solo x dungeon, while a Wizard can solo y or z dungeon. Why should I (or anybody) choose those classes if Adventurer class can solo all x, y, and z dungeon? For the deliberate sake of party play or for trying something new? Pizazz? To not feel overpowered? If those are the answers, how long will a player (say, casual) keep doing that?
• Justified wrote on 2010-07-26 18:51

  Quote from Zid;105173:

  That's kind of the point though. You demonstrated that, while it seems unnecessary for a proper Wizard to have Windmill, you still used it, even if it's out of 1/1000 magic-oriented combat situation. Even if you used Windmill very very rarely to get out of a messy situation, would the outcome be different if you hadn't? Human error shouldn't be penalized in such a severe manner if you're a Wizard.
  
  And I'm as sure as anybody else that having Mana Shield as a fallback against multi-aggro is questionable in its efficiency vs. just Windmill the mob and loading an Ice Spear during the spinning animation.

  
  
  Then again, with the Wizard bonus to Int/MP, Mana Shield would be a more viable option. Sure, -30HP would be a lot better than -150 MP, but tanking with Mana Shield and following up with wand smacks and an Ice Spear would work just fine.
  You can't load Ice Spear in the spinning animation while wands won't stun long enough for Thunder/millspam against faster mobs, let alone staggered multi.
• BobYoMeowMeow wrote on 2010-07-26 18:53

  Quote from Moppy;105220:

  That's why you go with a Knight when you do runs.
  
  Everyone is so used to being able to adapt to every situation, now you can't. Either you start befriending people who use other classes, or you cast your magic as quickly as possible.
  
  This just shows that if you want to solo, don't go wizard.

  
  
  Wizards can go solo
  it just means chugging them blue pots
• starpaw7 wrote on 2010-07-26 18:54

  Quote from Juno;104979:

  If you're still using windmill to handle multi-aggro once you can fuse lightning and w/e at will, you should just turn in your wand.

  
  
  
  Then you would always have to rely on someone else instead of being able to Windmill :what:
• Lan wrote on 2010-07-26 19:05

  Quote from starpaw7;105376:

  Then you would always have to rely on someone else instead of being able to Windmill :what:

  
  
  -_- Paw Wizards are getting a new skill that lets them fuse bolts by themselves.
• Juno wrote on 2010-07-26 19:45
  Mana shield, with maxxed int, is a 4:1 ratio. That means that if a mob combos you for 400, you only lose 100 mana. Frankly, that's not a bad deal if you have massive mp anyway.
• Kazuni wrote on 2010-07-26 19:47

  Quote from Juno;105433:

  Mana shield, with maxxed int, is a 4:1 ratio. That means that if a mob combos you for 400, you only lose 100 mana. Frankly, that's not a bad deal if you have massive mp anyway.

  
  
  But you don't have massive mp.
• Serathx wrote on 2010-07-26 19:48

  Quote from Kazuni;105437:

  But you don't have massive mp.

  
  
  Not anymore at least. D:
• Deitylight wrote on 2010-07-26 19:53

  Quote from Serathx;105444:

  Not anymore at least. D:

  
  
  When exactly did this occur...?