[KR Test] Advance Magic Skills and Others

• Tropa wrote on 2013-04-12 17:42

  Quote from Kingofrunes;1067339:

  sadly we lack a lot of stuff that's supposed to be in the ducat shop. It's bloody retarded

  
  
  Mostly the reason I've stopped commercing, nothing good, and most of the good farmable items(such as upgrade stones) are too expensive to be farmable.
• radionoise wrote on 2013-04-12 17:43
  There's no mystery reforge kit in NA because a lot of ppl would be content with lv 4 elemental and lv 10 stuff without having to spend real money, so nexon can't have that because they want all of the reforge money.
• phil11g wrote on 2013-04-12 17:50

  Quote from Kingofrunes;1067336:

  I suppose. At this point I'm relying on kenero's opinion that magic updates should be handled carefully so as not to overthrow balance. Which frankly died long ago

  
  
  But how to you make a balance skill set when the others are unbalanced? Is there an example of a balanced skill set in this game? I'm not for nerfing high leveled players, but what if they do alittle of both nerfing and boosting skills and stats to balance things out? And speaking of reforges, what if nexon nerfs reforge to the point they can be gained through normal gameplay, and everything in cash shop is just cosmetic or for convenience?
• ca25nada wrote on 2013-04-12 17:58

  Quote from phil11g;1067346:

  And speaking of reforges, what if nexon not just nerf reforges, but can be gained through normal gameplay,

  
  
  That's what the mystery reforges allows users to do (to some degree anyway). It's basically a 'nerfed' version of the fine reforge that can be easily obtained through commerce.
  
  (but sadly, not in NA according to the above posts)
• Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-04-12 17:59

  Quote from phil11g;1067346:

  But how to you make a balance skill set when the others are unbalanced? Is there an example of a balanced skill set in this game? I'm not for nerfing high leveled players, but what if they do alittle of both nerfing and boosting skills and stats to balance things out? And speaking of reforges, what if nexon nerfs reforge to the point they can be gained through normal gameplay, and everything in cash shop is just cosmetic or for convenience?

  
  
  In a perfect mabi world that would happen. Frankly though considering how devcat has done "reblancing" in the past, I don't forsee them ever getting it right. It's a constant battle of buffing and nerfing. They simply cannot find the right middle ground.
• Slayerj wrote on 2013-04-12 18:25
  *Reads a few of the posts over the past few pages* Well that was....stuff.
  
  I'd like to point a few things out to everyone who says that they need to be very careful as to not make magic OP.
  
  For a human the entire combat tab takes 5156ap
  For a human the entire magic tab takes 4737ap
  
  It takes 419ap more to max out the magic tab which contains TWO skill sets (not counting healing arts mending, but that's 68ap)
  So to complete two skill sets it takes 4737ap (4805ap with mending).
  To complete Lancer, Melee, Range, and half of the merchant talent, it takes 5156ap. That's 3.5 talents. (Yes I know lancer shares many of melee's skills but lance charge on it's own costs a lot of AP)
  
  Lancer, holds well on it's own.
  Melee, holds well on it's own.
  Range, is still good even without a lot of dex from life skills.
  These three talents hold well on their own and only grow stronger from other talents/enchants/and skills.
  
  With this update and magic's new skills...(Going off the AP costs listed here http://i.imgur.com/u2mgH0s.png http://i.imgur.com/nYMqtAF.png http://i.imgur.com/C5wDiAx.png http://i.imgur.com/1XbvSgk.png )
  
  Magic will now be a 5890ap skill set. From what I've seen and read about Alch's changes, the 4106ap skill set has no additional AP changes or costs and remains 4106ap along with gaining it's much needed boost and renewal.
• Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-04-12 18:42

  Quote from Slayerj;1067367:

  *Reads a few of the posts over the past few pages* Well that was....stuff.
  
  I'd like to point a few things out to everyone who says that they need to be very careful as to not make magic OP.
  
  For a human the entire combat tab takes 5156ap
  For a human the entire magic tab takes 4737ap
  
  It takes 419ap more to max out the magic tab which contains TWO skill sets (not counting healing arts mending, but that's 68ap)
  So to complete two skill sets it takes 4737ap (4805ap with mending).
  To complete Lancer, Melee, Range, and half of the merchant talent, it takes 5156ap. That's 3.5 talents. (Yes I know lancer shares many of melee's skills but lance charge on it's own costs a lot of AP)
  
  Lancer, holds well on it's own.
  Melee, holds well on it's own.
  Range, is still good even without a lot of dex from life skills.
  These three talents hold well on their own and only grow stronger from other talents/enchants/and skills.
  
  With this update and magic's new skills...(Going off the AP costs listed here http://i.imgur.com/u2mgH0s.png http://i.imgur.com/nYMqtAF.png http://i.imgur.com/C5wDiAx.png http://i.imgur.com/1XbvSgk.png )
  
  Magic will now be a 5890ap skill set. From what I've seen and read about Alch's changes, the 4106ap skill set has no additional AP changes or costs and remains 4106ap along with gaining it's much needed boost and renewal.

  
  
  Well you also have to keep in mind that other skill sets are HIGHLY reliant on stats. Magic doesn't require much to be powerful and mages can get high INT purely by ranking just magic.
  
  to cap range, an elf spends 6277 AP
  to cap magic, an elf spends 4372 AP
  
  so no, you can't compare ranking just smash and windmill for 500 AP to ranking the entire magic skillset
  because smash and windmill alone without spending 3k+ other AP in other stuff are just gonna do 1s on elite monsters
• Perfectio wrote on 2013-04-12 19:26
  The whole "well, you have to rank a lot of other non-range skills to get more dex" argument is rather weak. We're comparing Magic's BASE skills versus Range's BASE skills. So what if you have to spend 2-3k AP to get that last 10% of dex? You've gotten most of your power from that relatively small initial investment.
  
  Right now, Range is a 5 course meal at a 5 star restaurant, while Magic is a fast food joint on a bad day, except the fast food joint costs almost as much as the 5 star restaurant and gives you a doggie bag.
  
  Also, shogungari brings up a very good point - endgame players are way too strong and you can't just keep scaling up content. And since South Korea hasn't been conquered by North Korea yet and is thus still capitalist, Nexon still has to make money. Thus "deleting all reforges" is out of the question. So the only option is to buff normal mobs. Though looking again at what he's asking for, he's really playing the wrong game if he wants one where tanks and healers actually matter. Thing is, to have a game like that, you have to make it so that if you are NOT a tank, you die in one shot, and if you're not getting healed, you die in 3 shots, and it takes time to kill enemies. Right now, everyone can stay alive due to Mana Shield and dish out quin-digit attacks at high speed.
• Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-04-12 19:36
  Well, why not just make it so that Magic is at least viable and on par with Melee, Ranged, Puppeteer and Fighter?
  
  Why does Magic HAVE to be OP? It doesn't >.>
  
  It just needs to be on the same playing field as all the other skill sets.
• Perfectio wrote on 2013-04-12 19:40

  Quote from Kingofrunes;1067404:

  Well, why not just make it so that Magic is at least viable and on par with Melee, Ranged, Puppeteer and Fighter?
  
  Why does Magic HAVE to be OP? It doesn't >.>
  
  It just needs to be on the same playing field as all the other skill sets.

  
  
  The reason it's hard to find a middle ground for Magic is that things like WM and Crash Shot and Act 7 exist, which means that magic AOE has to be good enough to make them worth using, but making magic AOEs that are better than Crash/WM would probably
  
  It's really the existence of Windmill and Crash Shot and Act 7 that's the problem; take those away and now you have to have a mage if you want to clear a lot of mobs quickly.
• Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-04-12 19:53

  Quote from Perfectio;1067406:

  The reason it's hard to find a middle ground for Magic is that things like WM and Crash Shot and Act 7 exist, which means that magic AOE has to be good enough to make them worth using, but making magic AOEs that are better than Crash/WM would probably
  
  It's really the existence of Windmill and Crash Shot and Act 7 that's the problem; take those away and now you have to have a mage if you want to clear a lot of mobs quickly.

  
  
  WM is OP? That's rich
  
  

  [Image: http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/102006/2496333-2494342_oh_wait_youre_serious_let_me_laugh_even_harder_super.jpg]

  
  
  WM is far from OP. Smash is way more OP than WM is. I mean you may as well remove all AoE's that aren't magic if you're going to be like that.
• Iyasenu wrote on 2013-04-12 20:04
  I just wish magic was not so slow.
  
  Not casting-time wise, but that's a part.
  
  Make it so that fireball acts like Spear of Light.
  FLING THAT EXPLOSIVE FIRE ORB AT THE GROUND, QUICKLY.
  
  And that Thunder starts dropping lightning right away and the the enemies are just "stunned" lying on their backs for, what is now, the normal standby period
  
  
  And that ice spear freezes like frozen blast, but the first hit from something else breaks the ice and deals the explosion damage, in addition to the damage from the hit that broke the ice. (normal duration of freeze still applies, too)
  
  
  I'm not sure how OP that would be, but it's basically the same damage as it would be now, just without all the BS waiting periods of fireballs falling and ice spears blocking monsters, and thunder taking forever.
• Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-04-12 20:15
  Hold the phone guys I just thought of something (with juju's help)
  
  What about Fusion Bolt Damage?
  
  r1 Magic Weapon Mastery boosts bolt damage by an additional 150% Combined with bolt and fusion bolt masteries that's an additional 180% added to fusion bolt damage.
  
  Does Ice and fire mastries stack for ice + fire fusion bolt and does the ice and fire enhancements of the hebona robe also stack on to the damage together?
  
  Also what would happen if you had 3 level 20 fusion bolt damage reforges? +60% fusion bolt damage
• Perfectio wrote on 2013-04-12 20:31

  Quote from Kingofrunes;1067410:

  WM is OP? That's rich
  
  WM is far from OP. Smash is way more OP than WM is. I mean you may as well remove all AoE's that aren't magic if you're going to be like that.

  
  
  Not saying they are - but if you made magic more useable than WM/Crash or Act 7, then it'd definitely be OP. And if you don't make them better, why would you invest all that AP?
• Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-04-12 20:34

  Quote from Perfectio;1067421:

  Not saying they are - but if you made magic more useable than WM/Crash or Act 7, then it'd definitely be OP. And if you don't make them better, why would you invest all that AP?

  
  
  More int for fusion bolt! More int for Mana Shield! Seriously, if you read my post above a light bulb might click. In every skill set there's that one OP skill. For Ranged it's Crash Shot, for Puppets it's Act 7. for melee...I don't really know, nothing stands out as phenomenal. For magic...just maybe...Fusion Bolt will be you'r savior. Think about it...