[KR Test] Advance Magic Skills and Others

• ironwoman wrote on 2013-04-13 00:15

  Quote from Kingofrunes;1067544:

  Thanks can you also send me the translation of:
  
  Blaze and Mobile Casting Bug
  
  Also I can't read Korean so I have no idea how in hell to follow this :(
  
  Here's a video of my blaze testing:
  
  [video=youtube;I2If6_QPSVg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2If6_QPSVg[/video]
  
  No audio for some reason so bear with me. I might have to fill the gap of nothingness with something (I hear it fine when I play it in vegas)

  
  
  Lol, I can't get past the log in page, since the site won't let me.
  
  I'll just send you sentences having to do with the video.
• Perfectio wrote on 2013-04-13 00:45

  Quote from Johny;1067501:

  Well, I know I ranted earlier, but it was because I thought ALL magic was getting nerfed to fit in the new magic formula, just like in g13. However, I've been running some impromptu calculations, and only IS and hailstorm are being affected severely, along with firebolt. I, to be honest, have to say that the only times I use IS is to clear math/rabbie norm/advanced. IS is extremely tricky to use, and I dislike it for that. On top of that it expends a lot of mp for damage that is slightly less than fireball's (unless you are reforged, which nulls the whole arguemen

  
  
  >what is damage over time
  
  Ice Spear now can come out under 5 seconds with Vivace + reforges. Without reforges, under 7. Ice Spear is the only magic skill which loads quickly enough to even keep up with physical skillsets in terms of DPS.
  
  

  As long as thunder and Fireball are still viable after the update, I'll be fine. I use thunder a WHOLE LOT MORE than IS or hailstorm. Frankly, I only use hailstorm for boss, now that I can crit with it against bosses like the fomor commander. And even with the nerf, it's still a pretty strong skill. 2.6k to 6k crits is a lot of damage for a skill that hits more than once.
  

  
  
  I went from magic to fighter and currently have about 400 max.
  
  I can outdamage a post-revamp Hailstorm (which needs 36.5 seconds to inflict damage and cannot be loaded when under attack without help )burst in one 7-8 chain while not fearing retaliation unless I ping.
  
  Maybe if you only run HM can Hailstorm can be said to be a good skill post revamp.
  
  At this point, I wouldn't blame party leaders for instakicking mages out of parties post-revamp. An endgame mage is inferior in speed, power and flexibility do a mid-game player of every other combat talent.
• radionoise wrote on 2013-04-13 01:54

  Quote from Perfectio;1067559:

  Ice Spear now can come out under 5 seconds with Vivace + reforges. Without reforges, under 7. Ice Spear is the only magic skill which loads quickly enough to even keep up with physical skillsets in terms of DPS.

  
  
  Speed bonuses don't stack.
  Not gathering, not movement, and not casting.
• uoi100 wrote on 2013-04-13 03:51

  Quote from Perfectio;1067559:

  >
  At this point, I wouldn't blame party leaders for instakicking mages out of parties post-revamp. An endgame mage is inferior in speed, power and flexibility do a mid-game player of every other combat talent.

  
  Its k, all I need is fireball, meteor strike, and shockwave and I'm set for my mage skills... While I main as a gunner and make full use of my int /o/
• Kitkat wrote on 2013-04-13 04:09

  Quote from Kingofrunes;1067480:

  While you are swearing and flipping the fuck out, I'm going to go have fun with my new magic.
  
  There's Mages like Vejjie (BizarreJuju) who are finding plenty to be proud of in this update.

  
  
  I'll trust you two to make good reviews of the magic update then! :thumb:
• Johny wrote on 2013-04-13 04:27

  Quote from Perfectio;1067559:

  >what is damage over time
  
  Ice Spear now can come out under 5 seconds with Vivace + reforges. Without reforges, under 7. Ice Spear is the only magic skill which loads quickly enough to even keep up with physical skillsets in terms of DPS.
  
  
  
  I went from magic to fighter and currently have about 400 max.
  
  I can outdamage a post-revamp Hailstorm (which needs 36.5 seconds to inflict damage and cannot be loaded when under attack without help )burst in one 7-8 chain while not fearing retaliation unless I ping.
  
  Maybe if you only run HM can Hailstorm can be said to be a good skill post revamp.
  
  At this point, I wouldn't blame party leaders for instakicking mages out of parties post-revamp. An endgame mage is inferior in speed, power and flexibility do a mid-game player of every other combat talent.

  
  
  Man...you just have a knack at finding the negative in everything huh?
  
  In this revamp, I saw somewhere that magic weapon mastery reduces cast time by 15% at rank 1. Hailstorm loads in 5.5 seconds. Ever heard of thunder? That one is going to charge in 2.5 seconds, or 12.5 for 5 charges. Fireball charges in 17.5 seconds, or 10 seconds if you use a phoenix wand.
  
  Oh not to mention that int reduces cast time by some ratio I'm not aware of.
  
  And what is wrong with doing hardmode? Am I subpar just because I decide to do hardmode for my solo runs?
  
  Also, I am aware Fighter has high damage. I use fighter as my second skill set. Don't lecture me.
  
  And finally, parties already disregard the requirements of a mage as it is, not waiting for a mage to charge his skills or smashing-canceling someones thunder. This revamp ain't going to make it any better for us mages when it comes to party play. Don't make it seem like this is going to make all the difference in the world. If you really want a party that role-plays, join a role-play group that actually respect mages (HAH! Good luck!), or can it and deal with it. (As you may see, I have no faith in partying anymore >.> )
• Slayerj wrote on 2013-04-13 04:35

  Quote from radionoise;1067578:

  Speed bonuses don't stack.
  Not gathering, not movement, and not casting.

  
  
  So the speed buff from Magic Weapon mastery for 15% faster INT magic won't stack with wand upgrades? Or Vivace?
• radionoise wrote on 2013-04-13 05:05
  Chances are that the magic weapon mastery will properly stack since devcat is not completely dumb. But wands upgrade/reforge,etc just overwrite each other.
• Alto wrote on 2013-04-13 05:18

  Quote from radionoise;1067634:

  Chances are that the magic weapon mastery will properly stack since devcat is not completely dumb. But wands upgrade/reforge,etc just overwrite each other.

  
  
  [FONT="Century Gothic"]Wait, so if a phoenix fire wand has speed upgrades and then gets a Casting Speed reforge, only one applies? And if so, which one?[/FONT]
• Slayerj wrote on 2013-04-13 05:26

  Quote from radionoise;1067634:

  Chances are that the magic weapon mastery will properly stack since devcat is not completely dumb. But wands upgrade/reforge,etc just overwrite each other.

  
  
  Any chance you guys could test that? If it does then I assume that ego's will stack as well.
• Perfectio wrote on 2013-04-13 05:33

  Quote from Johny;1067622:

  Man...you just have a knack at finding the negative in everything huh?
  
  In this revamp, I saw somewhere that magic weapon mastery reduces cast time by 15% at rank 1. Hailstorm loads in 5.5 seconds. Ever heard of thunder? That one is going to charge in 2.5 seconds, or 12.5 for 5 charges. Fireball charges in 17.5 seconds, or 10 seconds if you use a phoenix wand.

  
  
  You're of course forgetting the long refire times. So tack on 6 seconds to both. Also tack on 3.5 seconds to Hailstorm.
  
  I'm just being realistic. Magic has no place, outside highly situational crowd control roles, in Mabinogi's metagame. I haven't used magic in months with 4k in invested AP. I haven't seen anyone use int magics in any serious run in months.
  
  

  And what is wrong with doing hardmode? Am I subpar just because I decide to do hardmode for my solo runs?

  
  
  We already know Magic can look passable in hard mode. Too bad Hard Mode is to vets now what Int was to us then.
  
  

  Also, I am aware Fighter has high damage

  
  
  You're the one who thinks 6k damage every 3.5 seconds is anything other than trash. My ttl 180 giant can do that.
  
  

  And finally, parties already disregard the requirements of a mage as it is, not waiting for a mage to charge his skills or smashing-canceling someones thunder.

  
  
  Because magic is a garbage skillset, so why should anyone bother waiting?
  
  

  This revamp ain't going to make it any better for us mages when it comes to party play. Don't make it seem like this is going to make all the difference in the world. If you really want a party that role-plays, join a role-play group that actually respect mages (HAH! Good luck!), or can it and deal with it. (As you may see, I have no faith in partying anymore

  
  
  Run a better skillset and parties will have no problem with you. I hate to be harsh but it's the truth. Parties have no obligation to wait for you when they can clear the spawn faster than your attack can connect.
  
  I had honestly held out hope that Devcat would fix it, but those hopes have been dashed. At this point, if you have the NX, reset all your magic unless you wanna go gunner. Magic as a talent is dead.
• uoi100 wrote on 2013-04-13 06:00
  magic does fine in hard mode / elite dungeons o_o;; The problem is how you use it, if you're in a room where people basically kill everything before you charge then you should be using other skills such as shockwave/blaze, or even soloing rooms. Magic is not going to be my main skillset but it does have a place as my secondary for quick bursts / damage dealing / multi-aggro protection. And what is this "re-fire" time? Aside from that Magic isn't a "garbage" skillset.
• Zekkii wrote on 2013-04-13 06:52
  There's no point using magic, that's all there is to it. It's slow, costly, and absolutely every skill is outdone by something else. That's just that cold hard truth.
  
  In this new update we're given niche uses such as an Instant Cast every 3 minutes, a large damage fireball every 30 minutes, and my least favourite, a passive-active skill that allows casting while moving but costs massive amounts of stamina and mana. This makes magic better, because it has uses where there were none before, but comes at a price of more AP/mana costs thrown at players while breaking the magic formula.
  
  They're essentially turning magic into the final shot side class. If I was a serious mage, what would I get from the update?
  -A skill that's only useable every 3 minutes
  -A skill that's only useable every 30 minutes
  -A skill that uses double mana and countless stamina that has little to no discernible use
  -A skill that makes bolts stronger
  -A crappier magic damage formula, especially for beginners
  
  This is literally a direct nerf until you throw more AP at it, so excuse me if I don't cheer devCAT on for "fixing" magic. They've had years to figure this out, and I've seen dozens of players suggestions more balanced even though they were half-heartrendingly thrown together by players who knew that it didn't matter if they were poorly made.
  
  The underlying problems still remain:
  
  -Magic has low DPS despite the fact that it requires waiting for around 10 seconds to do practical damage; charging times and standby times make usage slow
  -Using, obtaining, and maintaining magic are costly for no reason
  -Magic requires overspecialization and restricts hybriding
  -Most of the skills cause mass aggro while offering little to combat this besides the hope of enemy death
  
  I don't think they screwed up entirely, it would likely be better than before provided they fix a few things I can only assume are bugs. It's just horrible to see this happening all over again, X skillset gets cheap, effective, easy use while magic gets expensive, ineffectual, and overcomplicated crap as usual, except slightly better. In testing though, so this is an unofficial opinion.
• Johny wrote on 2013-04-13 07:34

  Quote from uoi100;1067650:

  magic does fine in hard mode / elite dungeons o_o;; The problem is how you use it, if you're in a room where people basically kill everything before you charge then you should be using other skills such as shockwave/blaze, or even soloing rooms. Magic is not going to be my main skillset but it does have a place as my secondary for quick bursts / damage dealing / multi-aggro protection. And what is this "re-fire" time? Aside from that Magic isn't a "garbage" skillset.

  
  
  I just ran Sulfur Spider Elite using only thunder (of course, I was in party so that helped a lot), which apparently is considered taboo since most people in these forums have a disliking of thunder, which I don't seem to understand.
  
  Magic being too weak was never the problem. It is the fact that most of the other physical skill sets have all sorts of buffs that make them far more powerful than magic. That's what certain people don't seem to understand in here. If you main magic, you'll do fine, guaranteed. The ACTUAL truth is that every single other physical skill set, all of them, have been in the spot light for too long, while magic and its close relative, alchemy, decay in the background. To add to that, it's only natural magic and alchemy would become inferior; they have become outdated!
• Anwell wrote on 2013-04-13 07:38
  Are the Koreans complaining about it too? At least if we know that they are, they could be taking action towards it.