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Ashikoki wrote on 2013-04-16 11:25
It is finally time for the big topic that has everyone on their toes. We'll be talking about spam, the definition of spam, and certain members of the community. But first, I have to explain why the staff have been so passive about our controversial spam problem.
[Image: http://i.minus.com/j6HrNPsMZNfnv.png]
You are a staff member whose job is to enforce the rules and keep the forum a nice place. When the community questions your ability to do this fairly (ie, being biased or providing special treatments), the worst possible thing to do would be to act outside of what the currently existing rules allow. Therefore, punishing someone "on discretion" or "because many people have requested so" is actually the very exact thing that the community criticizes the moderators for. This breaks a line between fairness and opens a path to tribal witch-hunting; a somewhat barbaric path that we just don't want to go down.
It really is a tricky situation. The best way to deal with this is to redefine "spam" in general so that our standards of what is considered spam is changed. Here is the difficult part: this new definition will apply to everyone.
You see, since becoming admin, I did a lot of digging through past threads and posts. I looked at every post that people have complained about being spam, and every thread that was reported for spam. Each and every person who voiced their discontent at the post/thread for its irrelevant and spammy nature has, at some point, posted a post/thread of their own with the same level of irrelevant and spammy nature. This hypocrisy makes it really difficult for me to get a grasp of what you people really want.
To start, I will simply fix the Mabinogi-Splatulated spam issue with one change. He will now be required to only ask questions in his own dedicated thread. Each time he makes a thread for a question, we'll be giving him an infraction for minor spamming (2 points each). Like all other users, he will be automatically banned at 10 points. Though this contradicts the nature of what I had explained just above, his inability to process and maintain information when the moderators warn him has led them to become a cleanup crew for merging/moving/fixing his trail of posts. This really is a band-aid fix, one which I'm not sure can stick or not.
For Bean Rua spam, this is the responsibility of the community as a whole, and not just myself. Bean Rua has always been an Off-Topic section, for threads that do not belong in other areas of the forums. But at the same time, we have an Everything Else section, which is actually even described as following, "If it isn't spam and doesn't belong anywhere else, it goes here." Essentially speaking, Bean Rua has always been a spam board. If you guys want this changed, then you need to decide what is too spammy for Bean Rua, right here in this thread.
Dig up 2~3 threads that you believe are too spammy to be allowed in Bean Rua and post it here. There is actually a very strong likelihood that I will actually be able to find a thread that is very similar but you don't/didn't find spammy, and even participated in. For the sake of defining the clearest standard possible, try your best to play devil's advocates for both others and yourself. What is spam? What isn't spam? By those conditions, have you spammed?
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Ashikoki wrote on 2013-04-16 11:26
In other news, here are some quick announcements.
Lewd has been given the negative rep disease.
Hitaki's signature has been changed to
best girl.
Osayidan's rep title is now "the Soda Dispenser".
Yakumo Yukari has been awarded gold for his good behavior. 4 to be exact. It actually cost me more to send that gold.
These were all necessary changes to improve the functionality of mabination.
Source.
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Time wrote on 2013-04-16 11:33
These all sound great, especially changing Hitaki's signature, Im sure everything will be much better now. Thank you!
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Morrigan wrote on 2013-04-16 11:54
Awesome, keep up the good work! You're a lot more involved in the community and voicing your choices, I like that a lot. <3
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Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-04-16 13:31
Well I have no clear definition of spam other than making 10+ threads in a section in the span of a few hours. I at least try to limit myself to 1-5 threads (most of the time less) in any given day. But the Splat question thread should clean that up without any further actions.
On second thought I changed my mind. I think a post containing a single word like "^" or "this" or "^ this" as spam. As well as the one image reaction posts I see frequently in mabinogi talk.
The image posts are fine in threads dedicated to that sort of thing, but on threads where some discussion or opinions are being generated, one image posts don't have much of a place in them.
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Bakuryu wrote on 2013-04-16 13:33
Quote from Kingofrunes;1068944:
Well I have no clear definition of spam other than making 10+ threads in a section in the span of a few hours. I at least try to limit myself to 1-5 threads (most of the time less) in any given day. But the Splat question thread should clean that up without any further actions.
Hm, yes.
I think what people are annoyed by the most is the quantity rather than the quality (but they also collide, low quality threads + high quantity of them = BAD + BAD = Irritation)
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Claudia wrote on 2013-04-16 15:07
I also agree. I think we can all agree that it's acceptable for thread in Bean Rua to be of low quality. After all, it's bean rua.
But if you're going to post more than 5 thread in bean rua in a day, unless they're outstanding and exceptional threads (i.e. an interesting discussion that isn't necessarily suited to everything else or rua's house, a funny youtube video [even though we have a thread for that], talking about a life event that happened), i'm going to get pissed off very quickly.
I do believe that Splat's non-mabi questions generally constitute spam because they can be answered within a few posts AND they're posted a frequently. I don't really have a solution to that though, because just one thread in Bean Rua doesn't really seem fair or fit the nature of everyone's favorite trashcan of a forum.
I don't really think a post like "^" is necessarily spam given there's no post count accumulation, but if you're going to do that in a thread i'm going to roll my eyes because wow way to contribute a quality post to a thread.
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Osayidan wrote on 2013-04-16 15:07
I think the image reply posts are okay if the content of the image expresses correctly and respectfully what would have otherwise been said with text.
A picture is worth 1000 words... just make sure those words are the right ones and follow the rules.
Would like other people's opinions on that.
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Cynic wrote on 2013-04-16 15:28
Eh, I don't really care about "^" and image posts in BR because, as it has been stated a few times now, BR is essentially just a spam section. Now, if this happens frequently in other sections of the forum, then I guess I could understand. But as long as it's within reason and isn't happening in every other post, then I suppose there could be some exceptions. Especially if "^" or an image post is accompanied by actual text relevant to the discussion. Then I see no reason why that kind of post wouldn't be allowed.
As for a posting limit, I think 5-10 threads a day in the BR section is fine as long as you're not taking up an entire page within like, an hour or something. Splat's BR posts have been fairly reasonable in my opinion. There have been other members who have done the same before, and in Splat's case, he's actually asking a question in most of them. Whether that question is deemed unnecessary by other members is irrelevant because, again, it's a spam section. It doesn't have to be a serious question. And frankly, I'd much rather see a bunch of "why is the sky blue?", "why do cats meow?" types of threads as opposed to some of the old spam threads we've had. At least he actually means well and is just genuinely curious and isn't just making threads like "LOL BUTTS DURR HURR".
It's still pretty clear to me that one of the biggest issues was just a personal bias against him (because lord knows people love picking on abnormal people), but I do agree that this will definitely help both sides, even if Splat himself wasn't the main problem.
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Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-04-16 15:41
Image posts and ^ and this posts don't bother me too much in bean rua. It does bother me in main topic formus though where all you see is people piggy back riding on other peoples posts or posting stupid images that aren't necessarily needed.
That's not to say that you can't post images, but at least put some additional words in it. I mean sure a Chris Hansen image is fun and all in mabinogi talk when I'm talking about shotalach to give a concrete example, but at least put in some words with that.
Although to be fair a chris hansen image does amuse me and does speak for itself but for the quality expected in one of the main forum sections? I don't know I guess it all comes down to other people's expectations.
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Bakuryu wrote on 2013-04-16 15:49
Image posts have always been an annoyance of mine, speak, with WORDS , words are awesome, USE THEM.
Also, when people post meme images (that contain no text at all), I'll seldom understand them, I am not a meme person, I don't know over 80% of them probably, I hate them and I want them thrown into a fire and QQ and stuff.
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Zeo wrote on 2013-04-16 16:40
I don't post in Bean Rua much, but I do find it annoying when I tend to see like... 10 threads containing a Youtube video, with only a short comment under it everyday, but that's probably just me though.
editted:: I also don't like it when people only uses one image in the post... same for video... like some other people said. I don't care if the image or video in your post have the texts or so... they're still annoying.
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Hanna wrote on 2013-04-16 17:07
I dislike people being negative to each other in bean rua
"it's okay to b passive aggressive bcuz dis is bean rua"
I also dislike derailing threads in bean rua, it's really fucking rude
"dis thread is about sandwiches now hurrhurr"
and while I'm on the topic of things I dislike I should mention how I hate it when someone openly bashes someone for liking something they don't (Like yesterday Zack was like "I saw your MLP avatar and no longer cared") it's really rude
I dislike tomatoes as well and think they should be forever banished
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Bakuryu wrote on 2013-04-16 17:10
Quote from Hanna;1069023:
I also dislike derailing threads in bean rua, it's really fucking rude
"dis thread is about sandwiches now hurrhurr"
I have found that the problem with this, most of the time, is when threads would be better suited in another forum, like "Everything Else", which would protect you (with our latest techonology: moderatron-3000, which can be accessed from the "warning sign" looking icon below the avatars on an users post!) from derailing, since these threads tend to aim for some serious (or semi-serious at best) discussion, but Bean Rua... Bean Rua is crazy yo.
Maybe some people aren't sure if it'd be considered spam or something and we'd move it to Bean Rua.
REST ASSURED: If you post something outside of Bean Rua and we deem that it belongs in BR, we'll move it, we won't bite you, infract you or warn you (I might lick you, but that's how I roll)
For instance, the thread that derailed into underwear discussion by Compass, would be fine in Everything Else. And people would be asked to keep it on topic (Embarrassing things).
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Lewd wrote on 2013-04-16 17:39
I would like everyone to keep in mind that now I have the "Negative rep disease" I can transfer it easily to another person, much like AIDS or MS. So keep your bullying to a minimum.