Let's Talk End-Game in the Future~

• Kenero wrote on 2013-07-29 15:25

  Quote from ewire123;1129189:

  I have both of those and have test hailstorm with and without rosemary. The damage boost is barely noticeable. The thing that affect the most is reforge. So all you need is a good hailstorm reforge level. Nothing else. Same would be true with firebolt I believe, no need to hebona set.
  
  Over specialization would net greater damage but some people are trying to say Mage can't keep up without over specialization? Oh please.
  
  I don't think putting all elemental of the same type on your equipment would boost the damage ? It only reduce the damage you take against that elemental last time I check? So wtf

  
  
  It increases damage and you take more damage.
  
  During my playtime in Avon Missions, I would enchant everything with fire.
  
  I would deal massive damage, but consequently, I would take a lot as well.
• ewire123 wrote on 2013-07-29 15:31

  Quote from Kenero;1129191:

  It increases damage and you take more damage.
  
  During my playtime in Avon Missions, I would enchant everything with fire.
  
  I would deal massive damage, but consequently, I would take a lot as well.

  
  
  Too bad 99% of the mobs is non elemental so yeah. Who run Avon anyway? It all Npc spam and daily elite for me. But yeah, I'm running Npc and I would out damage lance smash with elemental reforge or at least deal compareable damage still. After magic revamp it be a whole another story.
• Kenero wrote on 2013-07-29 15:40

  Quote from ewire123;1129194:

  Too bad 99% of the mobs is non elemental so yeah. Who run Avon anyway? It all Npc spam and daily elite for me. But yeah, I'm running Npc and I would out damage lance smash with elemental reforge or at least deal compareable damage still. After magic revamp it be a whole another story.

  
  
  This was back in the old days when Avon Missions were new and everyone liked the concept of dying without losing a blessing.
  
  And also the only way to get the Rosemary materials before the gacha that spat them out came.
• ewire123 wrote on 2013-07-29 15:44

  Quote from Kenero;1129196:

  This was back in the old days when Avon Missions were new and everyone liked the concept of dying without losing a blessing.
  
  And also the only way to get the Rosemary materials before the gacha that spat them out came.

  
  
  And now nobody care about Avon and rosemary gloves can be bought for around 13m(less than black angel wing). Oh how thing have changed isn't it?
• Kenero wrote on 2013-07-29 16:02

  Quote from ewire123;1129197:

  And now nobody care about Avon and rosemary gloves can be bought for around 13m(less than black angel wing). Oh how thing have changed isn't it?

  
  
  Human Dual-Wield is no longer as effective ever since the introduction of the fine and credne reforged kits that gave two-handed weapons (example: HLC, Knight Lance, etc.) that oust them.
  
  Before, Dual Wield for humans was king.
• truefire wrote on 2013-07-29 16:16

  Quote from Kenero;1129191:

  It increases damage and you take more damage.
  
  During my playtime in Avon Missions, I would enchant everything with fire.
  
  I would deal massive damage, but consequently, I would take a lot as well.

  
  
  I think ewire meant that enchanting your entire set of equipment with fire element would have no bearing on fire magic, which was in response to kingofrunes's post talking about how overspecialization for a fire mage would include fire enchants.
• Zekkii wrote on 2013-07-29 17:46

  Quote from Kenero;1129200:

  Human Dual-Wield is no longer as effective ever since the introduction of the fine and credne reforged kits that gave two-handed weapons (example: HLC, Knight Lance, etc.) that oust them.
  
  Before, Dual Wield for humans was king.

  
  That is not necessarily true, dual-wielding still offers more damage than two-handers and lances in many cases. This is particularly evident at lower levels, where you might not have as much damage coming from the strength. I think a bigger issue is cost; the best one-handed swords cost countless millions to obtain, typically have 20k+ repair cost, and are extraordinarily expensive to get dual elemental 3 or better (dual or triple is almost inconceivable). Getting an elemental 6 HLC is almost dirt cheap and the Lich Croc is cheap too, albeit a bit risky.
  
  However, speaking in terms of the future I have to say that lances are downright overpowered. Neither dual-wielding nor 2-handers will be able to compete with the outright piercing buff sometime in the near future. Not only will piercing be more effective for mobs with under 50 protection, which is most of them, but piercing will reduce up to 45 protection providing +50 to 90% damage on most mobs. This will make 3.5k windmills feel like 5k to 7k windmills. I believe I have mentioned the breakeven point is 72 protection, meaning that lances will do the same damage at 72 protection in the future as they do now and more for anything less. Thing is, not too many things have more than 72 protection and lances are already ridiculously effective against things with that much protection. I can see why KR players want lances to be nerfed; they would easily rip through anything without elemental immunity and still be fairly effective against those that do have elemental immunity.
• Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-07-29 17:49
  The Lance Melee Metagame is a bit ridiculous though. Then again so is fighter metagame. Especially Drop Kick if you can connect that with multiple mobs on a crit.
  
  The one annoying downside to Lances though is the minimum distances. That's the part that always seems to get me. Leading me to spam mostly wm and lance charge. I do manage to get a smash here and there but usual wm + AS and then picking off the rest with lance charge + fighter tends to do the trick most of the time.
• Zunori wrote on 2013-07-29 17:58

  Quote from Zekkii;1129227:

  That is not necessarily true, dual-wielding still offers more damage than two-handers and lances in many cases. This is particularly evident at lower levels, where you might not have as much damage coming from the strength. I think a bigger issue is cost; the best one-handed swords cost countless millions to obtain, typically have 20k+ repair cost, and are extraordinarily expensive to get dual elemental 3 or better (dual or triple is almost inconceivable). Getting an elemental 6 HLC is almost dirt cheap and the Lich Croc is cheap too, albeit a bit risky.
  
  However, speaking in terms of the future I have to say that lances are downright overpowered. Neither dual-wielding nor 2-handers will be able to compete with the outright piercing buff sometime in the near future. Not only will piercing be more effective for mobs with under 50 protection, which is most of them, but piercing will reduce up to 45 protection providing +50 to 90% damage on most mobs. This will make 3.5k windmills feel like 5k to 7k windmills. I believe I have mentioned the breakeven point is 72 protection, meaning that lances will do the same damage at 72 protection in the future as they do now and more for anything less. Thing is, not too many things have more than 72 protection and lances are already ridiculously effective against things with that much protection. I can see why KR players want lances to be nerfed; they would easily rip through anything without elemental immunity and still be fairly effective against those that do have elemental immunity.

  
  
  Human Dual wield is actually quite powerful. Especially with dual focused beams.
• Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-07-29 18:00

  Quote from Zunori;1129237:

  Human Dual wield is actually quite powerful. Especially with dual focused beams.

  
  
  I would say for most things Human Dual Wield is pretty damn good if you use the focused rainbow beams simply because they are so OP. Sword of Elisnore and Upgraded Onion sword enchanted with the specific vocaloid enchants also is on par with those.
  
  You'll be able to kill things rather quickly without the distance limitation. However, you won't be seeing 13k+ smashes on Hard+ mobs with dual wield. At least not without a lot of reforges and double elementals to back it up.
• Zekkii wrote on 2013-07-29 18:05

  Quote from Kingofrunes;1129229:

  The Lance Melee Metagame is a bit ridiculous though. Then again so is fighter metagame. Especially Drop Kick if you can connect that with multiple mobs on a crit.
  
  The one annoying downside to Lances though is the minimum distances. That's the part that always seems to get me. Leading me to spam mostly wm and lance charge. I do manage to get a smash here and there but usual wm + AS and then picking off the rest with lance charge + fighter tends to do the trick most of the time.

  
  I agree with that; minimum distance requirements work horrible in mabi with no exceptions, especially with lag. The worst part is, most lancers I see use an ice dragon then windmill twice and everything is dead. The only real downside is the radius, but you can probably 1-hit the stragglers with lance charge anyways. Simple put, I don't like how shallow lance combat (+others) has become with the introduction of more and more cash elements. In this respect, I am glad elemental immune and ice dragon immune (do they even have this anymore?) monsters have come into play.
• gundamweed wrote on 2013-07-29 23:11

  Quote from Gensokyou;1129100:

  Can you please define strong skillset? Because i'm 6k and still have trouble with veteran bandits.

  
  
  How? How is that even possible? This is very very alarming.
  
  I'm not even 3k and I don't even have trouble with master bandits, and I have 0 reforges with subpar gear and enchants.
• Kenero wrote on 2013-07-29 23:28

  Quote from gundamweed;1129329:

  How? How is that even possible? This is very very alarming.
  
  I'm not even 3k and I don't even have trouble with master bandits, and I have 0 reforges with subpar gear and enchants.

  
  
  It's a connection problem.
  
  If the enemy is very similar to you and you're not strong enough to survive or overkill it, latency will be your greatest threat and the monster's greatest ally.
• Gensokyou wrote on 2013-07-29 23:32

  Quote from Kenero;1129187:

  If you're strong enough to one or two shot the enemy, lag can be bearable. It's like running basic or INT, even with lag and mana shield, you should be relatively fine.
  
  The only reason I am saying this to gen is because I know full well that gen is strong enough to kill those veteran bandits quite easily.
  
  And also, I know how distance lag from across the world feels like. I once had to play Mabinogi NA out of the Philippines and Japan. Nothing is more annoying than trying to handle a group of bandits when skills that is suppose to take 0 seconds to load takes like 2 seconds. However, I was able to deal with bandits safely.
  
  Then again I have had the pleasant experience of having 4+ years of the old combat system. So when smash takes 2 seconds to load as oppose to the new 0 seconds, it was tolerable for me since it was like playing on the old system.
  
  But I have full faith in that Gen is able to do it. =)

  
  
  Okay. For starters:
  
  -I started playing after Genesis.
  -I don't use demonic bars while commercing (17k per point during commerce? :cry:)
  -I have about 1.2k str + dex (So, i'm missing a lot)
  
  I have no idea where you're getting the bolded from. I have absolutely no trouble with hardened bandits because I can sit in the middle of them and act 4 and everything dies. Bandit boss dies with a smash after that. Vets are a whole different story because I *can't* do that. I crisis, act 4/act 7 (If I can pull it off), Too unskilled to avoid getting hit, get hit 3-4 times and die.
  
  Masters are even worse, because the only way that I can kill masters without dying is to crit with a crisis then crit with an act 7. So I have to pass 2 30% rolls, and then I have to deal with the ~50% chance of actually pulling off 6 > 7 because of my proooo connection. Otherwise, I still die in a few hits.
  
  I've tried to work around this by using high level mana shield gloves in the past (even though bandit bosses still do like 100 through it =3=), but MP pots are getting annoying to make and I feel like I should be making an effort to wean myself off it.
  
  That said, it's incredibly frustrating. I've got like 300 mp when levelled so normal mana shield is a bit of a joke 8D
  
  Puush isn't working for me at the moment, so i'll just quickly say: With my 30% normal overture that I get, I have 397-654 control bar damage, and carved colossus for +puppet max. I also wear more gear then most people, wearing a hat, boots, and 2 Stout EQ accs (Since the gacha spat them out).
  
  

  Quote from gundamweed;1129329:

  How? How is that even possible? This is very very alarming.
  
  I'm not even 3k and I don't even have trouble with master bandits, and I have 0 reforges with subpar gear and enchants.

  
  
  You're either a badass or I suck eggs. Take your pick.
• Gensokyou wrote on 2013-07-29 23:33

  Quote from Zekkii;1129240:

  I agree with that; minimum distance requirements work horrible in mabi with no exceptions, especially with lag. The worst part is, most lancers I see use an ice dragon then windmill twice and everything is dead. The only real downside is the radius, but you can probably 1-hit the stragglers with lance charge anyways. Simple put, I don't like how shallow lance combat (+others) has become with the introduction of more and more cash elements. In this respect, I am glad elemental immune and ice dragon immune (do they even have this anymore?) monsters have come into play.

  
  
  I never had a problem with lance min distance. Instead of normal attacking, spam that lance counter button or windmill. Need to smash? Overcompensate.