[Guide] Basic Gunner Combat

• nana wrote on 2013-08-04 06:11

  Quote from Psy;1131347:

  Unfortunately, I doubt I could get my hands on an attack speed test in KR. But it is also possible they reached what I described as their lag limit? Because unless it was changed since then, that video Kenero posted is clear evidence that having both frenzy and an attack speed buff is faster than just frenzy.

  
  
  please compare
  Dowra+Frenzy
  http://youtu.be/F4l0Xj-fb-4?t=13s
  
  and
  Dowra+SpeedSet+Frenzy
  http://youtu.be/PmofKAEw9I4
  
  perhaps count how many time this girl shot within 10sec.
  From my point of view, they both shot 16times in10sec(tho 1st vid lagged a bit..)
• Mentosftw wrote on 2013-08-04 06:20
  Fighter/Gunner 1v1 combos? Since I haven't tried gunner before, this is all theory crafting.
  
  Dropkick -> Shooting Rush/Closer -> Crossbuster
  
  Knockdown move -> Closer -> F Fist -> stage 2 -> Pummel
  
  Pummel -> Bullet Storm -> Bullet Rush -> C Strike
• Psy wrote on 2013-08-04 06:36

  Quote from Mentosftw;1131363:

  Fighter/Gunner 1v1 combos? Since I haven't tried gunner before, this is all theory crafting.
  
  Dropkick -> Shooting Rush/Closer -> Crossbuster
  
  Knockdown move -> Closer -> F Fist -> stage 2 -> Pummel
  
  Pummel -> Bullet Storm -> Bullet Rush -> C Strike

  
  Might be lag from not being in KR but Closer doesn't seem to stun for very long if at all. If this is intentional, this may be so it could only be used in combos with Faraway (or other instant skills like shockwave if ever possible with the gun skillsets without changing slots.)
• Mentosftw wrote on 2013-08-04 06:37
  Who says you have to fully charge a focused fist? I usually just tap mine or hold it for half a second to second to cover a bit of ground.
• Syr wrote on 2013-08-04 06:38
  A second or two is probably enough to pull off a very fast focused fist (tap da hotkey, basically) or a cross buster.
• Psy wrote on 2013-08-04 06:40
  Even if you just do a light tap and release, it still takes time to switch weapons, so unless it stuns longer if you don't lag, it isn't really a plausible combo imo.
• Gensokyou wrote on 2013-08-04 06:44

  Quote from Gensokyou;1131340:

  I was thinking the bolded but didn't want to be the first one to say it because someone would be like "lol, move to cali nub!"
  
  Hence why i'm wondering how much of a difference it's really going to make.

  
  
  Lots of discussion but no question answering :<
  
  Most of the discussion seems to be if you're using guns primarily, which I can understand. But in conjunction with another skillset?
• Syr wrote on 2013-08-04 06:58

  Quote from Gensokyou;1131379:

  Lots of discussion but no question answering :<
  
  Most of the discussion seems to be if you're using guns primarily, which I can understand. But in conjunction with another skillset?

  
  
  I still think that guns as a secondary class is used to help with crowd control (Shooting Rush/Bullet Storm).
• Gensokyou wrote on 2013-08-04 07:07

  Quote from Syr;1131383:

  I still think that guns as a secondary class is used to help with crowd control (Shooting Rush/Bullet Storm).

  
  
  That's what I was thinking but everyone seems to think it's very important ;s
• Zekkii wrote on 2013-08-04 07:30
  Relating to Attack Speed, and Gen. I will be pairing gunner with many skillsets, puppetry being the one I am currently most interested in. I also would not invest in an attack speed set , or use automatic enchant with viscount enchant. It is not that these would be bad choices, but I hardly think they are requirements. Based on the videos it is evident that there is a speed increase while wearing a speed set but it is not particularly mind blowing; you may have to watch the videos a couple times to really notice the difference in timing. Based on what I have watched, I would estimate a 20 to 25% increase in attack speed. This may not be particularly accurate, but it certainly is nowhere near double.
  
  To put this into perspective, and in some ways affirm Gen, I do not believe I will be using normal attack with guns enough to warrant losing out on valuable enchants at very least.
  [spoiler=Skills Build]The skills I will be using with Punner are; Crisis, Climactic Crash, Rising Action, Windmill, Smash, Shooting Rush, and Bullet Storm for AoE; Lullaby, Overture, and future bard skills for self-support; Closer, Faraway, Crossbuster, Threshold Cutter, and normal gun attacks (sometimes with frenzy) for single target skills.[/spoiler]
  With this build, it should be noted that the focus is revolved around AoE and single target skills should only be used on stragglers or bosses with frenzy. Given 600 max, to take down an enemy with 6000 net health (after protection) you will need to deal 1000% damage; it should take 5 normal clicks with no-crits, 2 clicks with all crits (frenzy), and just over 3 clicks on average. Given you will likely only have 0 to 2 stragglers at any given time, this means you will likely save yourself as much as 20 to 25% of 6 seconds or about 1.5 seconds per wave. Keep in mind most enemies have far far less than 6000 net health, and you could easily switch to something more appropriate or use frenzy on bosses.
  
  tl;dr Basically, I don't see too much value in speed sets. I apologize to all the bread mops in the audience.
• drezzt wrote on 2013-08-04 07:35
  Welp, time to go find some damage enchants and slap on on dealla Se when it comes out.
  Pew Pew
• Gensokyou wrote on 2013-08-04 08:43

  Quote from Zekkii;1131392:

  Relating to Attack Speed, and Gen. I will be pairing gunner with many skillsets, puppetry being the one I am currently most interested in. I also would not invest in an attack speed set , or use automatic enchant with viscount enchant. It is not that these would be bad choices, but I hardly think they are requirements. Based on the videos it is evident that there is a speed increase while wearing a speed set but it is not particularly mind blowing; you may have to watch the videos a couple times to really notice the difference in timing. Based on what I have watched, I would estimate a 20 to 25% increase in attack speed. This may not be particularly accurate, but it certainly is nowhere near double.
  
  To put this into perspective, and in some ways affirm Gen, I do not believe I will be using normal attack with guns enough to warrant losing out on valuable enchants at very least.
  [spoiler=Skills Build]The skills I will be using with Punner are; Crisis, Climactic Crash, Rising Action, Windmill, Smash, Shooting Rush, and Bullet Storm for AoE; Lullaby, Overture, and future bard skills for self-support; Closer, Faraway, Crossbuster, Threshold Cutter, and normal gun attacks (sometimes with frenzy) for single target skills.[/spoiler]
  With this build, it should be noted that the focus is revolved around AoE and single target skills should only be used on stragglers or bosses with frenzy. Given 600 max, to take down an enemy with 6000 net health (after protection) you will need to deal 1000% damage; it should take 5 normal clicks with no-crits, 2 clicks with all crits (frenzy), and just over 3 clicks on average. Given you will likely only have 0 to 2 stragglers at any given time, this means you will likely save yourself as much as 20 to 25% of 6 seconds or about 1.5 seconds per wave. Keep in mind most enemies have far far less than 6000 net health, and you could easily switch to something more appropriate or use frenzy on bosses.
  
  tl;dr Basically, I don't see too much value in speed sets. I apologize to all the bread mops in the audience.

  
  
  Damn, I can't rep you yet. Thank you for echoing my thoughts.
  
  That's what I was thinking but I was trying to play devil's advocate about it. I just couldn't see the justification in getting automatic over crocodile.
  
  That said, I think the Dowra SE is still the superior option simply because of reloading and clip size. Unless you got a reload speed reforge but you may as well get a gunner max reforge...
• Kenero wrote on 2013-08-04 12:12

  Quote from Gensokyou;1131407:

  Damn, I can't rep you yet. Thank you for echoing my thoughts.
  
  That's what I was thinking but I was trying to play devil's advocate about it. I just couldn't see the justification in getting automatic over crocodile.
  
  That said, I think the Dowra SE is still the superior option simply because of reloading and clip size. Unless you got a reload speed reforge but you may as well get a gunner max reforge...

  
  
  If you don't want to get a speed attack set, that's fine. Honestly, I am getting tired. If you don't want to get attack speed+, that's fine. It's something I recommend and I listed the reasons why. Yet, if you still don't want it, then don't get it.
  
  I feel like I am wasting my time explaining my reason to get the speed attack+ set so many times in so many ways for people who already made up in their minds that they don't want to get it. It's like throwing pearls before swine.
  
  Point is, if you don't want it, then don't get it. You don't need me to confirm or someone else to echo that voice for you. I gave my reason to get it and if you don't believe it/don't care about it, then that's totally fine. Just stop asking for me to convince you for something you already set your mind to not do. And no, asking this when in the back of your mind your decision is already set does not mean you're "sitting" on the fence about it.
  
  And for those wondering about gun upgrades...
  
  For the first upgrade, do not get the +6 max damage, instead get the +8 maximum bullet upgrade, unless 6 max is going to make a big difference.
  
  Reason I say that is because it will give you an extra shooting rush and attacks. Example:
  
  Shooting Rush Cost: 10 bullets
  
  Dealla SE's 64 bullets: 64/10 = 6 Shooting Rushes
  Dealla SE's 64 + 8 = 72 / 10 = 7 Shooting Rushes
  
  Taunes MK3's 36 bullets: 36 / 10 = 3 Shooting Rushes
  Taunes MK3's 36 + 8 = 44 / 10 = 4 Shooting Rushes
  
  Zeder II's 48 bullets = 48/10 = 4 Shooting Rushes
  Zeder II's 48 + 8 = 56/10 = 5 Shooting Rushes
  
  Having another 1x Shooting Rush before reloading, 4x Normal Attacks, 4x Far Away, etc. before each reload will help greatly. Unless you believe 6 more max damage will help you more than another skill load.
  
  However if you plan to just use Frenzy with a gun and nothing more, then that +6 max damage will be more alluring (also, the +6 max damage ALSO eats up a durability when upgrading).
  
  Once again the above is a suggestion. If you don't want it/don't care/want pure max damage ultimately over everything else, then get the +6 max damage. In no way you're harming or gimping yourself. Just choose what you will.
• BlackCat9 wrote on 2013-08-04 12:26
  This thread has been awesomely helpful!
  
  Thanks a bunch for putting it together as well as all your other threads, pretty much the only reason I stray from cuchulainn!
• Yogurticecream wrote on 2013-08-04 14:20

  Quote from Kenero;1131424:

  If you don't want to get a speed attack set, that's fine. Honestly, I am getting tired. If you don't want to get attack speed+, that's fine. It's something I recommend and I listed the reasons why. Yet, if you still don't want it, then don't get it.

  
  Don't worry, for one who doesn't take the advice, another will.
  
  

  Quote from Gensokyou;1131407:

  That's what I was thinking but I was trying to play devil's advocate about it. I just couldn't see the justification in getting automatic over crocodile.

  
  All you really need is the chinese dragon helmet and shoes (along with some smart enchanting) for a minimal attack speed set, so that you can put your crocodile on and skip automatic. No one will force you though, since reforges are a considerable tradeoff unless you want to make a separate set with gunner reforges instead.
  
  

  Quote from Kenero;1131424:

  For the first upgrade, do not get the +6 max damage, instead get the +8 maximum bullet upgrade, unless 6 max is going to make a big difference.
  
  Reason I say that is because it will give you an extra shooting rush and attacks

  
  I'll go with that. An extra shooting rush is more damage than what a 6 max would give you.