Invoke IQ Test into the sign-up page (Appeal)

• Brynn wrote on 2013-12-12 23:52
  I just need to know if I'm A-OK on Cirno's book.
  
  On-topic: There is only one member that bothers me to no end and I don't think I really need to say who it is.
• Ashikoki wrote on 2013-12-13 03:23

  Quote from Kaeporo;1177973:

  I've yet to notice a significant degradation of the quality of posted content within the Mabinogi Talk section. The majority of problematic users within Mabination have traditionally been those vocal few with an outstanding history of moderation.
  
  The sort of changes which ＣＩＲＮＯ proposed would be met with immediate conflict due to a fear of reprisal. If said changes survived more than a few days you would encounter the development of two trends: The backlash resulting from a combination of moderation opacity and the difficulty of this subject's ambiguity as well as the presence of sovereign members who would definitely abuse loopholes in developed standards for the advancement of some personal agenda.
  
  I'm not opposed to new rules concerning behavioral issues but said rules must both specifically protect members from reprisal and must specifically state what sort of behavior is not allowed. Additionally, if upholding these rules becomes overbearing for site leadership, you cannot expect said rules or policies to address the issues voiced in the first post.

  
  
  Wow, is your service over yet? Get back on my mod team!
  
  

  Quote from Osayidan;1177957:

  All I'm going to say on this matter is every time we've tried in the past to do content control, the community gets out their pitch forks and torches and starts chanting "nazi". Then every time it's toned down, things like this thread come up.
  Make up your damned minds.

  
  
  I'm not going to go TA mode on this. The moderators enforce the rules, not create or decide them. If there are problems with this then it simply means the rules themselves are not good enough.
  
  In that sense, we're just going to go further in revising those rules. We're not "too relaxed", we just no longer slam out bans on whim like we used to. Infractions are a good system, but I am considering strengthening the point value of them, since the warning system already gives them a freebie and expires after a set date anyways. A better description would be "too forgiving", I suppose.
  
  

  Quote from Brynn;1177986:

  On-topic: There is only one member that bothers me to no end and I don't think I really need to say who it is.

  
  
  You don't need to be so obscure about it. But honestly, your disdain towards me is rooted in your discrimination against feet, which I feel is very unfair to judge a person's being on. I certainly don't make assumptions about you simply because you're Brazilian, as much as they're stereotyped for being incredibly blunt, extroverted to almost irritating levels, having an inappropriately audible laughter, and enjoying taking meat rods up the bum bums.
  
  You're probably not like that in the slightest.
• Justified wrote on 2013-12-13 05:35
  Freedom is overrated. The more rules the better.
  I don't see why people need warnings. Just infract on first offense. Isn't that why there's no real punishment until multiple infractions?
• Zeo wrote on 2013-12-13 05:49

  Quote from Justified;1178100:

  Freedom is overrated. The more rules the better.
  I don't see why people need warnings. Just infract on first offense. Isn't that why there's no real punishment until multiple infractions?

  
  
  That's pretty much my only complaint about here. First offense should get you an verbal warning... as in... place a note on your account that only the staffs can see.
  
  Second offense should just get you an infraction and so on.
  
  I'm tired of seeing some users that made spam posts more than several times already, only to have them get deleted with no infaction in return.
• ＣＩＲＮＯ wrote on 2013-12-13 06:01

  Quote from Brynn;1177986:

  I just need to know if I'm A-OK on Cirno's book.
  
  On-topic: There is only one member that bothers me to no end and I don't think I really need to say who it is.

  
  
  Well, if you took your time to read through a thread, make somewhat relevant replies and take your time to complete the basic tasks before you create a thread, you are pretty much fine in my opinion. Like I've said, it's not exactly just one person committing all these crimes that makes the forum look dumb, but neither is it up to the point that the whole community is stupid.
  
  So don't worry about it too much. I'm not here to invoke xenophobia in people who are truly mentally incapable, but rather, here to make people think before they post.
  
  Frankly, if you ask me, this is the steps I usually take before I click the "Post Quick Reply" button:
  
  - Read through the thread (If I'm making replies) or search through the forums to see if the topic that I would like to create in a thread is already made or not
  - Type my points out in a simple, descriptive but interesting manner
  - Read through my own text just to figure out if it makes logical sense or not, or perhaps if it's understandable (Because I'm Asian and I do live in Asia, my English isn't perfect, yer know?)
  - Hit it, post it!
  
  Sometimes I like to be a little quirky with my replies, or perhaps a little aggressive, but it never reached a point where I'm posting things for the sake of posting. I reply to a thread because I feel that the opening post, or the discussion within a thread is of a relevant issue that I'm facing. I reply to a thread because the thread is interesting. I don't reply to a thread because it's on Mabination and everyone is doing so. Frankly, when I'm replying to a thread, I do have my reasons why I'm spending my time to type it out, period.
  
  That is pretty much why you don't see me replying in Mabination that much, but I do lurk around quite a bit.
• Cannibal wrote on 2013-12-13 06:19

  Quote from Zeo;1178104:

  
  I'm tired of seeing some users that made spam posts more than several times already, only to have them get deleted with no infaction in return.

  
  I wasn't aware that you were part of the staff and you could actually see the warnings and infractions that other members received.
• Ashikoki wrote on 2013-12-13 06:28

  Quote from Zeo;1178104:

  That's pretty much my only complaint about here. First offense should get you an verbal warning... as in... place a note on your account that only the staffs can see.
  
  Second offense should just get you an infraction and so on.
  
  

  
  
  A warning DOES get them a visual note that moderators can see. They're 0 point infractions. They expire after 3 months.
  
  Remember; we specifically discussed splat publicly as a community, and we decided on rules specifically to avoid giving specific members special treatment. The current rules are a result of that discussion.
  
  Here are the facts:
  
  1. Warning infractions last for 3 months before expiring.
  2. If you have an active warning, you will be infracted for point value on your next offense.
  3. We have decided to create a limitation of 5 threads per day per board to prevent flooding from one specific member. Due to how easy it is to accidentally break this rule, members who violate this rule are given a verbal warning to cease creating threads for 24 hours. Failing to comply results in a spam infraction.
  4. Point value infractions last much longer before expiring. As long as these are active on your account, you will not be given another warning.
  
  We cannot exercise quality policing, because everyone has such a wildly different opinion of what is potentially quality content or not. I've seen people argue post quality first hand and it is simply impossible to regulate. We cannot exercise extreme quantity throttling due to the possibility of someone consistently producing numerous quality content. Thus, the community had decided that 5 threads is an acceptable point for a limit per day.
  
  Splat has complied with these rules quite well, and for the times he failed to comply, we've promptly infracted him and he has been banned for it in the past.
  
  Originally, when the infraction overhaul took place, some people raised concerns that it was too forgiving. I wanted to let it play out and see how it goes. It has been almost a year and I'm thinking it could use a little tweak in numbers to find an even ground between being too forgiving and too strict.
  
  Edited for accuracy*
  
  

  I'm tired of seeing some users that made spam posts more than several times already, only to have them get deleted with no infaction in return.

  
  
  The report feedback system was put in place to specifically avoid these types of complaints.
  
  For every spam report you've placed, you should have received a feedback with tangible results. Your report was either dismissed or resolved. If resolved, the moderator should have told you exactly what they did (warning, infraction, other action taken, etc).
  
  And then to further solidify fairness, if you strongly disagreed with the results, you could directly report that feedback, which would be handled by staff discussion. And that would also be send back in feedback.
  
  Gensokyou (or whatever he's going by now) actually used this feature very well, to the annoyance of some of my staff members. This is a safeguard I've put a lot of thought and effort in to. Please use it.
• Cannibal wrote on 2013-12-13 06:34

  Quote from Ashikoki;1178118:

  
  Originally, when the infraction overhaul took place, some people raised concerns that it was too forgiving. I wanted to let it play out and see how it goes. It has been almost a year and I'm thinking it could use a little tweak in numbers to find an even ground between being too forgiving and too strict.

  
  This would be nice when time allows.
  
  I will agree that sometimes it seems like, "Oh, they do this a lot annnnnnnnd nothing." Even when I was on staff (and actually did reports lmao) it got kind of tedious giving infractions and giving infractions, and, on the smaller things, having to deal with the same shit because the point values weren't high enough or the time-limits weren't long enough.
  
  Bbbbut it does get tiring seeing things like "well I never see so-and-so get infractions" and it's like, yeah, obviously you don't. You don't see shit unless someone gets banned, lol.
• Zeo wrote on 2013-12-13 06:46

  Quote from Ashikoki;1178118:

  -snip-

  
  
  Err... I'm not talking about only Splat, but some other members as well.
  
  I understand a little more about "warning" now, thank you for explaining that in-depth to me.
  
  And as for reporting, I actually try to use it everytime I see something that I felt does not follow the current forum's rules. I did see some actions the moderators take after I reported for some stuffs, but I never recieved the PM about it so I was unsure if they did get my report or not. I do feel that the infraction system should be bit more strict.
  
  Thank you again for the comments.
• Ashikoki wrote on 2013-12-13 06:49

  Quote from Zeo;1178124:

  but I never recieved the PM about it so I was unsure if they did get my report or not.

  
  
  This should not be okay. Reports are always tagged to close, and the moderator who tags it should be sending a feedback report. It solves a huge number of problems in nation and pretty much addresses almost every common complaint.
  
  I still can't seem to completely enforce this setup, since I have no way of checking if the moderator who handled a case also sent a feedback or not.
• Syliara wrote on 2013-12-13 06:52

  Quote from Cannibal;1178122:

  This would be nice when time allows.
  
  I will agree that sometimes it seems like, "Oh, they do this a lot annnnnnnnd nothing." Even when I was on staff (and actually did reports lmao) it got kind of tedious giving infractions and giving infractions, and, on the smaller things, having to deal with the same shit because the point values weren't high enough or the time-limits weren't long enough.
  
  Bbbbut it does get tiring seeing things like "well I never see so-and-so get infractions" and it's like, yeah, obviously you don't. You don't see shit unless someone gets banned, lol.

  
  
  

  Quote from Ashikoki;1178118:

  A warning DOES get them a visual note that moderators can see. They're 0 point infractions. They expire after 3 months.

  
  
  On this note, would it be possible to allow users to see their own warnings/infractions, because honestly it's a bit annoying to not be able to see where you stand in case you want to cool down or something, or maybe if your not sure if your really breaking alot of rules. While the pm's from mods help to understand where you have faulted, I feel you should at least be able to see where you stand before you get a temp ban or something. If there is such a system already in place and I'm just oblivious then disregard all of this.
  
  On topic, its not that difficult to discern the incredibly annoying topics that really have no right in the specific forums besides the fact that the title or the OP has slight relevance to the forum it is in (basically by putting the name of the thing being talked about). There are threads that should just not have been posted in the first place, or at least should have their own section so that they arent borderline spam. For instance, (I honestly hate to call anybody out but I feel I need to), in the mabinogi talk section there was a thread that involved a song by Girl's Generation that only had relevance to the forums due to the name in the song. This kind of thing doesn't have to not exist in the forums entirely, but it could have its own section that dealt with this small amount of relevance. Honestly I feel the Mabinogi Talk section should only involve discussions about the game directly and not indirectly..... I'm not sure how else to put it without coming off as some kind of elitist or something, but basically I feel it should only talk about stats, content (meaning the combat kind), current events, and anything that has direct correlation to the game itself from a player's point of view. The rest shouldn't be entirely banned as much as put in it's own subforum so that it doesnt just annoy people who still care about the game (which is getting more and more rare by the day).
  
  This is all my opinion, the posting in threads that fall in those categories are up to the mods and how they feel it relates to the OP.
• Cannibal wrote on 2013-12-13 06:53

  Quote from Pureblooded;1178126:

  On this note, would it be possible to allow users to see their own warnings/infractions, because honestly it's a bit annoying to not be able to see where you stand in case you want to cool down or something, or maybe if your not sure if your really breaking alot of rules. While the pm's from mods help to understand where you have faulted, I feel you should at least be able to see where you stand before you get a temp ban or something. If there is such a system already in place and I'm just oblivious then disregard all of this.
  

  
  
  Here you go. It's the "settings" button at the top of the page. Your warnings/infractions (if you have any) will show up at the top.
• Syliara wrote on 2013-12-13 06:55

  Quote from Cannibal;1178127:

  Here you go. It's the "settings" button at the top of the page. Your warnings/infractions (if you have any) will show up at the top.

  
  
  Thank you, I figured something as simple as that would exist I just hadn't seen it....
• Cannibal wrote on 2013-12-13 07:00

  Quote from Pureblooded;1178126:

  
  On topic, its not that difficult to discern the incredibly annoying topics that really have no right in the specific forums besides the fact that the title or the OP has slight relevance to the forum it is in (basically by putting the name of the thing being talked about). There are threads that should just not have been posted in the first place, or at least should have their own section so that they arent borderline spam. For instance, (I honestly hate to call anybody out but I feel I need to), in the mabinogi talk section there was a thread that involved a song by Girl's Generation that only had relevance to the forums due to the name in the song. This kind of thing doesn't have to not exist in the forums entirely, but it could have its own section that dealt with this small amount of relevance. Honestly I feel the Mabinogi Talk section should only involve discussions about the game directly and not indirectly..... I'm not sure how else to put it without coming off as some kind of elitist or something, but basically I feel it should only talk about stats, content (meaning the combat kind), current events, and anything that has direct correlation to the game itself from a player's point of view. The rest shouldn't be entirely banned as much as put in it's own subforum so that it doesnt just annoy people who still care about the game (which is getting more and more rare by the day).
  
  This is all my opinion, the posting in threads that fall in those categories are up to the mods and how they feel it relates to the OP.

  
  It's all case-by-case basis, though, because relevancy is... well, relevant. I mean, yeah, that thread probably would have been better in Bean Rua or something, but it's kind of hard to tell what's okay and what's not when it has to do with Mabinogi. I just feel like an extra section or two for specific things would be confusing and kind of pointless.
  
  I mean, we've made separate sections and subforums for things in the past, and found that when that happens the activity for the new sections booms for like a month or so and then dies. It's just kinda dumb.
• Syliara wrote on 2013-12-13 07:06

  Quote from Cannibal;1178130:

  It's all case-by-case basis, though, because relevancy is... well, relevant. I mean, yeah, that thread probably would have been better in Bean Rua or something, but it's kind of hard to tell what's okay and what's not when it has to do with Mabinogi. I just feel like an extra section or two for specific things would be confusing and kind of pointless.
  
  I mean, we've made separate sections and subforums for things in the past, and found that when that happens the activity for the new sections booms for like a month or so and then dies. It's just kinda dumb.

  
  
  Is there an infraction system put in place when a person posts a topic in the wrong section, or the case is determined to be "Not relevant" to the forum it is in? Because, if no warning or infractions are place on people who post in the incorrect forum, or continue to post "barely" relevant threads in those forums then they will continue to do so waiting for a mod to deem it ok or not ok. This causes a problem of reliance on what the mod deems "ok or not" and encourages people to be lazy and continue to post barely relevant or completely incorrect threads in the wrong forums with no repercussions. I can understand a new person in the forums accidentally doing this, and that's fine, but when it's a person whos been with the forums for at least a month or so it gets pretty ridiculous and annoying. Honestly though, you're supposed to read the forum rules before joining so the "new person" immunity shouldn't even exist. If people are given slaps on the wrist after everything they've done wrong they will continue to abuse the "slap on the wrist" thinking that they can get away with being lazy or being stupid with no actual repercussions....