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Seox wrote on 2013-12-12 10:42
TL;DR is at the bottom
Hello all,
Bit of a lurker, so go easy on me.
I've been playing for a couple of years off and on and am currently about level 3200. I've got a ton of AP in melee/ranged with a fair amount in magic/fighter and some life skills. I'm currently sporting this as my main weapon: ht tp://s17.postimg.org/3mcb1dz67/Rz_Cap_20131212043155.jpg (Space in the url; Won't let me post it xD)
For a while, I led a guild that was based on helping beginning players figure out the combat system and I trained a -ton of people-. I'm pretty comfortable with mab's combat system, but I've hit a bit of a bump in the road and don't really know where else to turn as I don't have many other friends who still play and could answer this definitively. Please help; I need some wisdom that's beyond what I've got!
Ever since the advent of SMs, I've felt that the game has steadily become more and more of a stat-based over skill-based game. Don't get me wrong, skillful play is still very real and very important in mab, but I'm finding that I'm running around pot poisoned more and more, and with changes such as the armor masteries and reforges, plus the fact that most SMs become more difficult solely through the doubling of mob stats and not interesting mechanic changes like the poison/explosions of old adv dungeons, I'm really feeling upset by the way the game seems to be playing out. I feel like the challenge is gone, but the game is becoming more punishing for simple mistakes due to enemy stat stacking.
I'd enjoy the game much more if I didn't feel so overwhelmed by some of these changes stat-wise. I'm getting better about it, but I still have some trouble in hard missions (which used to be 1k) at over 3x the mission's level requirement solely due to the sheer amount of damage/armor the enemies have. While the damage makes sense, I'm really confused by some of the things I've seen on the forums lately. My weapon seems wholly adequate for some of these encounters (and with the fire 4 I got the other day, it's been a bit better). I only have about 100 max more to obtain from stats through strength, which is no slouch but also isn't going to triple my damage over night. Even so, I smash from 1-3k and critsmash ~8kish. I'm hearing people say that others "can smash up to 20k before reforges".
Can anyone explain this? That 100 max I'm missing is 600 from a 2h smash, and that 8k is WITH the reforge I have. I'm at the point that I don't even believe what I'm reading or think others are including things like support shot in numbers they calculate. I'm not really sure how to mitigate some of the stat barrier that I think that I'm seeing because the 100 max I have left isn't likely to be a huge felt difference but will require a large amount of AP. The weapon that I have doesn't have much room for improvement without reforges as well, and I haven't had much luck. I'm not really sure where to progress from here to solve some of these problems.
[SIZE="6"]TL;DR[/SIZE] check out my weapon (ht tp://s17.postimg.org/3mcb1dz67/Rz_Cap_20131212043155.jpg Space is included as I can't post urls yet) - I'm a 3k having trouble with some 1k missions because enemies take forever and a half to kill due to stat doubling, but it seems like others aren't having these problems and I don't know why. With only 100 max worth of strength left to obtain, I'm doubting that this will make a large difference in the long run. What am I doing wrong and what can I do to fix it to continue improving?
Sorry for the wall of text, and thank you so much for your advice and help :) This one's on you, mabi community; Please save the fun I still have with the game :S
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SUNFLARE wrote on 2013-12-12 10:53
This would go under mabinogi Help ill request a Change of section
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Seox wrote on 2013-12-12 10:57
Quote from SUNFLARE;1177684:
This would go under mabinogi Help ill request a Change of section
Got it; Thanks! Sorry for the misplaced topic D:
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SUNFLARE wrote on 2013-12-12 11:22
Common Forum Mistake also you cant post pic till after a week i think or a certain number of posts Also can you maybe tone down on the Text giant wall of Text x.x. I would recommend doing Bullets with Questions you want Answered that way less of a wall of Text
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Seox wrote on 2013-12-12 11:28
Quote from SUNFLARE;1177693:
Common Forum Mistake also you cant post pic till after a week i think or a certain number of posts Also can you maybe tone down on the Text giant wall of Text x.x. I would recommend doing Bullets with Questions you want Answered that way less of a wall of Text
Got it, thanks for the help :) I did put a TL;DR, but I'll go back and make it more obvious. Thanks again!
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Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-12-12 11:40
1) Your strength is still lacking about 300 strength from talents and skills
2) Lances are superior to claymores. I would invest in a lance. (Secret Penetrating at the very least)
You need to work on your crit as well. Your crit is way too low for hard missions. If you were at 100 crit or so you would be in a better position.
Also your balance could be an issue as well. You may need to use a weapon with more balance or get more dex.
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Seox wrote on 2013-12-12 11:46
Quote from Kingofrunes;1177699:
1) Your strength is still lacking about 300 strength from talents and skills
2) Lances are superior to claymores. I would invest in a lance. (Secret Penetrating at the very least)
You need to work on your crit as well. Your crit is way too low for hard missions. If you were at 100 crit or so you would be in a better position.
Also your balance could be an issue as well. You may need to use a weapon with more balance or get more dex.
Heya! Thank you for responding!
Ok, I'm training reload in that pic and am using dual guns, so that explains a couple of things with stats. With my main weapon equipped, I'm balance capped with 76.8% crit.
You suggest improving my crit - what do you think would be the best way of doing so? I've still got some fighter skills that haven't been ranked, or I could go the luck route with skills. I've got a few enchant spaces still open as well that I could work with.
Thanks so much!
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Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-12-12 11:48
Quote from Seox;1177702:
Heya! Thank you for responding!
Ok, I'm training reload in that pic and am using dual guns, so that explains a couple of things with stats. With my main weapon equipped, I'm balance capped with 76.8% crit.
You suggest improving my crit - what do you think would be the best way of doing so? I've still got some fighter skills that haven't been ranked, or I could go the luck route with skills. I've got a few enchant spaces still open as well that I could work with.
Thanks so much!
I'd go the luck route as luck gives more crit than will does. Your best places to get luck would be Commerce Mastery and Gold Strike.
As for dual guns I'm going to recommend you toss that. Your stats are no where good enough to have any hope of using guns to be honest. Guns is a very very endgame type of skill set that requires high int and str to be worthwhile. Your AP at this point is better spent on strength giving skills like say Carpentry or on luck skills to improve your crit or dex skills to up your balance.
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SUNFLARE wrote on 2013-12-12 11:49
Lizard is good for Weapons Lucks skills and Fighter all depends on ur playstlye are you going for Max DPS Or Balanced ?
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Seox wrote on 2013-12-12 11:53
Quote from Kingofrunes;1177703:
I'd go the luck route as luck gives more crit than will does. Your best places to get luck would be Commerce Mastery and Gold Strike.
As for dual guns I'm going to recommend you toss that. Your stats are no where good enough to have any hope of using guns to be honest. Guns is a very very endgame type of skill set that requires high int and str to be worthwhile.
I'm into guns for novelty and for the HP/Stam to be honest. I hadn't considered crit because it seemed that the mob protection was too high to worry about it beyond extremely crit-focused weapons or I'd have started on that a while back, and the strength that I'm missing also didn't seem like it'd help enough to solve my problem. I'll take a look at those two skills now, thanks!
Quote from SUNFLARE;1177704:
Lizard is good for Weapons Lucks skills and Fighter all depends on ur playstlye are you going for Max DPS Or Balanced ?
More of a balance. I've got AP in multiple trees and would prefer a spread of stats/etc.
Got anything else to add? I really appreciate the input so far!
Also, any idea how people are claiming 20k smashes without reforges? Seems odd to me considering I'm only critsmashing 8k and only lack 600 worth of smash damage (a few k with crit).
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Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-12-12 11:56
20k crit smashes is probably with a Lance. Also don't underestimate that 300 strength. 50-100 damage actually makes a huge difference believe it or not.
Especially when you take Smash into consideration.
Giant Smash - 600%
Two-Handed Weapon - +20% Damage
r1 Crit - +150% Damage
300 Damage * 1.2 * 7 * 2.5 (r1 crit) = 6300 Smash
400 Damage * 1.2 * 7 * 2.5 (r1 crit) = 8400 Smash
Notice how that multiplied?
Now what if we did r5 (red upgrade stones)
300 Damage * 1.2 * 7 * 3.5 (r1 crit) = 8820 Smash
400 Damage * 1.2 * 7 * 3.5 (r1 crit) = 11760 Smash
Also they might also be being boosted by r1 Overature which can add an extra 30% to your damage which say you have 500 damage. That would boost it to 650 damage.
Basically Red Upgrades are better than Blue Upgrades for melee providing you have the crit to back it up.
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SUNFLARE wrote on 2013-12-12 11:58
Restore White horse Gives Max and alot of Crit
Also here a List of Enchant types
http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Category:Enchant_Status_Modifiers
^ This Site is Ur Mabinogi bible Basically you can find almost anything here
Also Smash Enhancement + Support shot and Buffs Bone Dragon Chip + Battle Overture
Also what Server are you from
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Syliara wrote on 2013-12-12 11:59
Ur missing a lot of str, u used S upgrades, ur using a 2h instead of lance, and ur probably missing a lot of gear. 1k str is where u should be around end game, u should R upgrade ur weapon, u should invest in a secret penetrating knight lance, and u should use Thames plate armor with 10/10 stats and u should put some decent max dmg enchants on them. At some point u can move onto reforge to further bolster ur dmg (there's more than elemental ones). You honestly have a lot of work to do before ur going to be doing 20k smashes but it's not unheard of at all....
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Seox wrote on 2013-12-12 12:04
Quote from Kingofrunes;1177707:
20k crit smashes is probably with a Lance. Also don't underestimate that 300 strength.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't 300 strength 300/3.5 = 85 max damage, which is * 6 for a 2h smash = 510 damage? On a crit, that'd be an additional 1275 damage. If I'm critsmashing 8k, that's a 15% increase in damage there. That's certainly substantial, but the AP cost would be about 2000 AP - it seems like there might be greater gains that I could make with that much AP, and I doubt that what's holding me back is just a 15% difference.
How're 20k smashes with lances like that possible? I've maxed the majority of my combat skills; It still doesn't sound reasonable without reforges.
Quote from Pureblooded;1177709:
Ur missing a lot of str, u used S upgrades, ur using a 2h instead of lance, and ur probably missing a lot of gear. 1k str is where u should be around end game, u should R upgrade ur weapon, u should invest in a secret penetrating knight lance, and u should use Thames plate armor with 10/10 stats and u should put some decent max dmg enchants on them. At some point u can move onto reforge to further bolster ur dmg (there's more than elemental ones). You honestly have a lot of work to do before ur going to be doing 20k smashes but it's not unheard of at all....
How are people able to obtain 1k strength? The enchants on gear for the most part don't add a whole lot, and there's only ~750 STR possible from skills/talents. Thanks for the input!
Quote from SUNFLARE;1177708:
Restore White horse Gives Max and alot of Crit
Also here a List of Enchant types
http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Category:Enchant_Status_Modifiers
^ This Site is Ur Mabinogi bible Basically you can find almost anything here
Also Smash Enhancement + Support shot and Buffs Bone Dragon Chip + Battle Overture
Also what Server are you from
Gotcha, thanks :) Yeah, MWW is amazing :D I'm from Tarlach.
Thanks to everyone so far!
At this point, I'm wondering what I can put AP into that will make the most immediately noticeable difference. Any ideas?
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Kingofrunes wrote on 2013-12-12 12:07
Quote from Seox;1177710:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't 300 strength 300/3.5 = 85 max damage, which is * 6 for a 2h smash = 510 damage? On a crit, that'd be an additional 1275 damage. If I'm critsmashing 8k, that's a 15% increase in damage there. That's certainly substantial, but the AP cost would be about 2000 AP - it seems like there might be greater gains that I could make with that much AP, and I doubt that what's holding me back is just a 15% difference.
How're 20k smashes with lances like that possible? I've maxed the majority of my combat skills; It still doesn't sound reasonable without reforges.
Thanks!
It's possible because:
1) r5 2-handed weapon like a lance
2) Having 650+ damage
3) You crit
That's all there is to it. no other magic involved. Giants can crit that 20k smash a lot easier.
@pure I have 642 strength (almost 10k total) and have maxed out my melee, and only strength I'm lacking is from r4->r1 carpentry. Where the heck are you pulling 1k strength from? Giant standards or human/elf standards? (I'm also Master Warrior and Master Knight)
According to the wiki:
Current Human Total: 559 + 143(702) (Talent) + 30(732) (Grandmaster Warrior) Strength
Current Elf Total: 430 + 90(520) + 30(550) Strength
Current Giant Total: 566 + 158(724) + 40(764) Strength
Max strength is 732 for humans. So where pray tell is your 1k number coming from?