[Discussion - Game Balance] Current skills that needs tweaking?

• Syliara wrote on 2014-02-05 00:17

  Quote from SUNFLARE;1194739:

  Wheres the no bias for humans and giant s with def or that were supposed to be better overall in all range ?

  
  
  

  Quote from SlurpTASTY;1194742:

  I think a 20% increase in fighter dmg/600% smash/10% dex penalty/only large shield/one handed lance is more bias towards giant than a 3 second cd is to elves.

  
  
  Humans really only have cs as a good range skill compared to elves, let them specialize more in mag and let humans keep their cs advantage (even tho there isnt really any). Id be fine with a 3 second cd for both humans and elves but elves already have mag they dont need cs too.
  
  I was talking more about humans to elves not giants to elves btw.
  
  Elves and humans are basically in the same boat for defense when it comes to range, we cant really use heavy armor either.
• SlurpTASTY wrote on 2014-02-05 00:25

  Quote from Nui;1194747:

  Humans really only have cs as a good range skill compared to elves, let them specialize more in mag and let humans keep their cs advantage (even tho there isnt really any). Id be fine with a 3 second cd for both humans and elves but elves already have mag they dont need cs too.
  
  I was talking more about humans to elves not giants to elves btw.
  
  Elves and humans are basically in the same boat for defense when it comes to range, we cant really use heavy armor either.

  
  
  Well, in terms of range, crash shot is by far the best skill we have in our arsenal. It would only make sense to make elves the best at the best range skill (crash shot) just like giants are the best at the best melee skill (smash). This is just my opinion though, when I think melee I think smash, when I think range I think crash shot. Either way if both human + elf got 3 second cd I wouldn't complain about it, but it would make sense for elf to get it only IMO.
• Syliara wrote on 2014-02-05 00:32

  Quote from SlurpTASTY;1194752:

  Well, in terms of range, crash shot is by far the best skill we have in our arsenal. It would only make sense to make elves the best at the best range skill (crash shot) just like giants are the best at the best melee skill (smash). This is just my opinion though, when I think melee I think smash, when I think range I think crash shot. Either way if both human + elf got 3 second cd I wouldn't complain about it, but it would make sense for elf to get it only IMO.

  
  
  Magnum=smash they are both the hard hitting 1v1 skills for their respective talents. Windmill=crash shot in terms of the hard hitting aoe move that both skill have. Elves having a better magnum makes more sense than elves having a better crash shot. But ofc im talking to elves atm so theres bias on both sides.
• SlurpTASTY wrote on 2014-02-05 00:47

  Quote from Nui;1194754:

  Magnum=smash they are both the hard hitting 1v1 skills for their respective talents. Windmill=crash shot in terms of the hard hitting aoe move that both skill have. Elves having a better magnum makes more sense than elves having a better crash shot. But ofc im talking to elves atm so theres bias on both sides.

  
  
  Windmill does not compare to crash shot.
  
  First off, wm spreads out all mobs which ruins the opportunity for literally every other skillset AoE to be able to be used. Second off, WM reforge goes on weapons (which means you have to choose between ele or wm because chances of getting both is too low) and only gives +30% damage (compared to CS which goes on gloves which means you can have ele+cs dmg AND also gives +70% dmg). Third off, CS allows you to do 900%~1200% damage on the main target.
  
  The only thing WM has over CS is that it doesn't have a limit on how many mobs you can hit, but CS coupled with a lvl3+ cs frag # reforge is enough in almost every situation the game will put you in.
  
  Again, I am comparing the best skill from range with the best skill from melee (in my opinion). If you're not one hitting everything with your WM quite frankly you're doing more harm than good. This is why my proposal is to buff the best skill for range for elves just like giants have their best melee skill buffed (which again, in my opinion, is smash).
• Syliara wrote on 2014-02-05 00:55

  Quote from SlurpTASTY;1194763:

  Windmill does not compare to crash shot.
  
  First off, wm spreads out all mobs which ruins the opportunity for literally every other skillset AoE to be able to be used. Second off, WM reforge goes on weapons (which means you have to choose between ele or wm because chances of getting both is too low) and only gives +30% damage (compared to CS which goes on gloves which means you can have ele+cs dmg AND also gives +70% dmg). Third off, CS allows you to do 900%~1200% damage on the main target.
  
  The only thing WM has over CS is that it doesn't have a limit on how many mobs you can hit, but CS coupled with a lvl3+ cs frag # reforge is enough in almost every situation the game will put you in.
  
  Again, I am comparing the best skill from range with the best skill from melee (in my opinion). If you're not one hitting everything with your WM quite frankly you're doing more harm than good. This is why my proposal is to buff the best skill for range for elves just like giants have their best melee skill buffed (which again, in my opinion, is smash).

  
  
  You seem to have missed my point. I'm only looking at each skill on a basic level of aoe and single target comparison. There is no other skill that is aoe and can deal alot of damage like wm for melee, and likewise for range with crash shot.
  
  WM also has no aim so you wont have to deal with missing, along with no cooldown it can actually compare to crash shot with utility.
  
  That main target damage is really not that good at least not imo, sure its nice to have but in the end most of the times the mobs arent set up all nice like for u to use it on a boss. It's nice but its not as easy to pull off as mag is.
  
  Honestly, my point is that giving elves such a bonus when they already have mag with no cd makes human range literally worthless. If you are going to buff something you have to keep the other races in mind and try not to make them look incredibly underpowered in comparison. I'd rather not have a game where humans are forced to use puppets, magic, or alch.
• ironwoman wrote on 2014-02-05 01:03

  Quote from Nui;1194766:

  You seem to have missed my point. I'm only looking at each skill on a basic level of aoe and single target comparison. There is no other skill that is aoe and can deal alot of damage like wm for melee, and likewise for range with crash shot.
  
  WM also has no aim so you wont have to deal with missing, along with no cooldown it can actually compare to crash shot with utility.
  
  That main target damage is really not that good at least not imo, sure its nice to have but in the end most of the times the mobs arent set up all nice like for u to use it on a boss. It's nice but its not as easy to pull off as mag is.
  
  Honestly, my point is that giving elves such a bonus when they already have mag with no cd makes human range literally worthless. If you are going to buff something you have to keep the other races in mind and try not to make them look incredibly underpowered in comparison. I'd rather not have a game where humans are forced to use puppets, magic, or alch.

  
  
  Adding on to this, many humans that have near completed range are already using other skillsets more often to match Elf Magnum DPS.
  
  If Elves were to get such buffs, people will start complaining to devcat to nerf them. Especially the heavy armor part. Humans nor elves aren't meant to wear heavy armor as main gear (especially elves). I could maybe see elves getting like 30~50% pre-aim like arrow revolver's first shot for magnum or crash shot, but lowering the cooldown for crash shot will make elves more broken.
• Windyxflower wrote on 2014-02-05 01:07

  Quote from Xeno;1194640:

  Really? Because it is used very commonly here on Mari in both lords and MA and is growing in popularity as people learn how OP it is. And besides that, please, tell me how a skill is "one of the most well balanced skills in the game" when, literally, it renders everyone else in the party unable to contribute in any way besides perhaps buffing/healing? That seems pretty messed up to me. I don't know of many other skills or combos besides ice spear that prevent other people from doing anything, and you rarely see IS used because of that effect.
  
  I'd really love to hear someone tell me how much fun they are having in a Blaze group if they aren't the blazer or the puppeteer setting it up. Because if you aren't one of those two people in the group, congratulations you get to stand there and watch, maybe 1 or 2 shot the deadly enemy left over after the combo. Not fun.

  
  
  It's very uncommonly used in Alexina, At least from what I've seen. I have to agree with Zekkii on this one. It has a risky set up in the first place so some people don't even bother to use it because of that. If you hit you get rewarded, If you don't your screwed and you have to pray that you can charge another skill in time to make up for it. It is powerful but I refuse to call it OP. I think you should be more concerned about the crisis then blaze skill tbh. Seems like a puppeteer issue then a blaze issue.
• ironwoman wrote on 2014-02-05 01:15

  Quote from Windyxflower;1194771:

  It's very uncommonly used in Alexina, At least from what I've seen. I have to agree with Zekkii on this one. It has a risky set up in the first place so some people don't even bother to use it because of that. If you hit you get rewarded, If you don't your screwed and you have to pray that you can charge another skill in time to make up for it. It is powerful but I refuse to call it OP. I think you should be more concerned about the crisis then blaze skill tbh. Seems like a puppeteer issue then a blaze issue.

  
  
  I'd have to disagree with the very uncommonly used part. Me and my friends do it all the time, and we get to a point where we can clear the cave lord mission in 6 minutes. We use it alot in abyss too, although there are magic immune ones, which we just clean up with puppets.
  OP or not is subjective, but I'd call it one of the most useful skill in the game.
• Windyxflower wrote on 2014-02-05 01:21

  Quote from ironwoman;1194775:

  I'd have to disagree with the very uncommonly used part. Me and my friends do it all the time, and we get to a point where we can clear the cave lord mission in 6 minutes. We use it alot in abyss too, although there are magic immune ones, which we just clean up with puppets.
  OP or not is subjective, but I'd call it one of the most useful skill in the game.

  ah my apologizes, I don't really see it as much. Yes it can very useful I'll have to agree with that. I enjoy seeing it be used
• SlurpTASTY wrote on 2014-02-05 01:25

  Quote from Nui;1194766:

  You seem to have missed my point. I'm only looking at each skill on a basic level of aoe and single target comparison. There is no other skill that is aoe and can deal alot of damage like wm for melee, and likewise for range with crash shot.
  
  WM also has no aim so you wont have to deal with missing, along with no cooldown it can actually compare to crash shot with utility.
  
  That main target damage is really not that good at least not imo, sure its nice to have but in the end most of the times the mobs arent set up all nice like for u to use it on a boss. It's nice but its not as easy to pull off as mag is.
  
  Honestly, my point is that giving elves such a bonus when they already have mag with no cd makes human range literally worthless. If you are going to buff something you have to keep the other races in mind and try not to make them look incredibly underpowered in comparison. I'd rather not have a game where humans are forced to use puppets, magic, or alch.

  
  
  Nah, I understand your point fully, but that's not really what I'm arguing. I do understand magnum = smash and CS = WM in terms of what they do, but there's so many outside variables (outside of just they hit multiple mobs in a set radius) to consider that in the end CS and WM are two completely different skills in what they're for. I consider WM to be a counter attack that hits multiple enemies around you within a set radius (and as far as I'm concerned, this is what it is used most for). I consider crash shot to be a main damage dealer that can be used to deal massive amounts of damage to everything (due to all the reforges for it having great synergy) granted there is no aggro on me. Don't forget that crash shot -> lullaby allows you to pull off two crash shots guaranteed without anything moving (doesn't work with wm since everything spreads out too far).
  
  In any case, we're probably not going to convince each other which is fine. But I'll say this, I'd trade no magnum CD for lower crash shot CD.
  
  I'd also like to state that I am not opposed to humans getting the same buffs to range that elves would get, but it would make more sense for elves to get the buffs only (yes, I am biased, but not to the point of not wanting humans to get the buffs as well).
• Friggerton wrote on 2014-02-05 01:44
  Perhaps a way to deal with the archery hit chance would be to make the hit rate similar to damage balance, affected by bow mastery/ranged attack and capped at a (REAL) 80%. Either that, or make it auto hit with longer animations (that cause a delay between using consecutive skills, similar to smash; certain skills like lightning bolt and song can be used during the animation)
• Perfectio wrote on 2014-02-05 02:57
  How are people consistently setting up Blaze in cave? Are they just skipping the IS part?
• ironwoman wrote on 2014-02-05 03:33

  Quote from Perfectio;1194813:

  How are people consistently setting up Blaze in cave? Are they just skipping the IS part?

  
  
  Multiple puppeteers.
• Kaeporo wrote on 2014-02-05 17:07
  Axe Mastery: Adds +50% critical damage at r1
  Blunt Mastery: Adds +2 pierce at r1
  Charge: No longer shares a cooldown with Lance Charge
  Crash Shot: (Elf-only) Cooldown reduced to 5 seconds
  Crossbow Mastery: Adds +35% critical damage at r1
  Defense: Vales Shield no longer reduces damage to ~1
  Final Shot: Load Time reduced to 0 seconds; Reduces archery cooldowns by 25%
  Gold Strike: AOE effect always occurs at 10 charges
  Lance Charge: No longer shares a cooldown with Charge
  Mirage Missile: Shock damage scales with magic attack (2 coefficient)
  Ranged Attack (Elf): Damage raised to 125% per arrow
  Spirit Weapon Awakening: Skill damage scales with base damage
  Stomp: Scales with 150% of base damage
  Throwing Attack: Cooldown reduced to 2 seconds; accuracy reduced to 95% at r1
  Wind Guard: Player may use any skill while Wind Guard is active; movement speed is slowed to a walk
  Blaze: Explosion multiplier is reduced by 10%
  Fire Shield: Players may walk at r5; Shield is static at r1
  Hail Storm: Splash radius increased to 350 at five charges
  Ice Shield: Players may walk at r5; Shield is static at r1
  Lightning Shield: Players may walk at r5; Shield is static at r1
  Meteor Strike: Cooldown reduced to 20 minutes; coefficient raised to 35~40
  Natural Shield: Players may walk at r5; Shield is static at r1
  Party Healing: Skill can be used with any magic weapon equipped
  Spider Shot: Additionally reduces targets' movement speed by 50% for 40 seconds at r1
  Bullet Storm: Damage raised to 140% per target at r1
  Flash Launcher: Cooldown reduced to 4 seconds at r1
  Grapple Shot: Cooldown reduced to 3 seconds at r1
  Barrier Spikes: Can be erected in Theater Missions, NPC arena, Abyss Dungeons, etc
  Fire Alchemy: Increases Flame Burst final damage by 10%
  Flame Burst: Cone of effect raised to 52 degrees at r1
  Frozen Blast: Reduces target magic defense and protection
  Heat Buster: Damage increased by stamina and health coefficients of 0.8 each
  Life Drain: Bypasses defense and protection
  Water Alchemy: Increases Water Cannon final damage by 10%
  Water Cannon: Deals 50% splash damage across a splash radius of 200 under a cloud
  Battlefield Overture: Damage bonus reduced to 15% at r1; Cooldown increased to 180 seconds.
  Song: Singing without an instrument reduces music buff skill effectiveness by 33%
  Encore: Raises the next music buff skill effectiveness by 33%
  Respite: Respite aftereffect extends health/stamina regeneration until magic/alchemy is used
  Act 6: Crisis: Cooldown increased to 28 seconds at r1
  Act 7: Climactic Crash: Damage reduced to 500% at r1
  
  That sums it up.
• frncsjhnhawaii wrote on 2014-02-05 18:40
  edit:
  I'd want to see Final Hit being able to stun those with Advanced Heavy Stander or at least drop down a mob's Heavy Stander rating a stage. In exchange, I'd give up half of Final Hit's duration and double its stamina cost.