Zekkii's Guide to Creating Challenging Content in Mabinogi

• Tropa wrote on 2014-04-17 00:11
  I also wanna point out something, players have gained other sources of damage over time while most content has been left in the dust.
  
  1. New, better skillsets
  2. Reforges
  4. Talent System
  5. Genesis
  6. AoE Pets
  7. Battle Field Overture
  8. Festival Foods(Soon)
• Tyskiyomy wrote on 2014-04-17 00:22

  Quote from Tropa;1215475:

  
  8. Festival Foods(Soon)

  
  
  Very soon.
• Zekkii wrote on 2014-04-19 09:08
  Let's just look at something that went from being considered the most overpowered bullshit to an underpowered skill by many in a few generations; elven magnum shot. The main factor being that the only thing that the only change to mobs is that they got a 10% health buff and a damage buff to counteract the major defensive buff we got. Also note these aren't in order:
  
  1. Load time changed to instant, and instead changed to reflect animation
  2. Bohemian set introduced and magnum damage capability was increased by 15%
  3. Talents were introduced and hundreds more maximum damage has become available through enchants, totems, second titles, and countless more new dexterity generating skills. This can honestly be considered as much as 4 times as much, but I'm thinking more along the lines of the start of C4 so I'll go with +50% since I'm positive it's that or more drastic of a max damage increase
  4. Elemental 6 became available, for a 55.5% to 165.5% damage boost capability against every mob in game. Later some mobs were introduced to become immune to just this buff, but they are few and rarely killed
  5. Magnum Shot Damage reforges became available at level 20 and level 3 on accessories, allowing for up to 52% more damage with magnum shot
  6. Battlefield Overture became available, for an instant increase of 30~50% damage
  7. Premium/Gold Combo Cards were introduced. The actual damage bonus of this differs from situation to situation.
  8. Bhafel Hunter was introduced, the main benefit of the bow being the two piercing (-10% protection) over the normal HLB but it also offers a tiny bit more max
  9. Bhafel Huntress was introduced with the Hunter, this allows for a fair 30 max buff as well as 15% more damage to Magnum Shot and other archery skills
  10. Years to develop our stats and skills, as well as much accelerated progress system
  
  So just bulleting through the points, that would give us 1.15 (bohemian) * 1.5 (max damage increase) * 1.55 (assuming you stop at elemental 6) * 1.52 (magnum 26) * 1.4 (bfo) * 1.1 (substituting this for piercing for lack of a better method) * 1.15 (huntress) = 7.19 times as much damage, as well as the usage of premium & gold combo cards and genesis update.
  
  At the start of C5, Elven magnum was often regarded as one of the strongest skills for a well developed player to use. Now all I hear is Elves complaining about how useless it is, despite the major power buff. As a mob I have received an effectual 10% health benefit to combat this scary number, provided I was lucky enough to be generated in a shadow mission. I think it's high time we realized that mobs need a serious buff.
• Phelline wrote on 2014-04-19 20:05
  It's not that isn't op, all skills in mabi are atm if you count reforges, it's just that it's crap compared to how good giant melee is in respect to human and elf melee. The multiplier for elf mag is the same and the only thing that is different is the cd, which imo is not even that great since of how long it takes to aim to begin with. Does it work in the current game? Yes, but explain to me the point of making an elf when a human can do everything an elf can with better melee and the ability to use a freaking lance.
• Loulouw wrote on 2014-04-19 20:57
  Even though you might be true, this isn't what he was trying to point out at all, just leave that for another thread.
  
  On topic, I agree that monsters absolutely need something to come back, at least close, to the player combat potential, whether it's about the skillsets or their AI. Just removing the activation time on their skills to make them even with the players would already turn around the actual combat system in Mabi into something more interesting.
• Aubog007 wrote on 2014-04-20 02:13
  People wanted to feel power, so reforges came into play.
  
  You know, the game is easy enough without puppets, reforges, and music, since i never used music while soloing. Still dont.
  
  Unless another genesis happens, this is the game we are stuck with.
  
  
  Meaningless and useless content since there is nothing resembling balance and teamwork anymore. Soloing used to take skill, or pet management before aoe pets came into the picture. Now? All it takes is $$$.
  
  I come from a server where we have no fancy dragon items and someone's paging 200 bucks for the ice lance that no one has made yet. Because why make it when you can do everything anyway
  
  
  
  
  
  this game needs more content, it needs more things to do, or expansions upon content, this game will die otherwise or be relegated to who is the prettiest in dun.
  Note: Storyline is NOT good content.
• Zekkii wrote on 2014-04-20 06:26

  Quote from Aubog007;1216090:

  this game needs more content, it needs more things to do, or expansions upon content, this game will die otherwise or be relegated to who is the prettiest in dun.
  Note: Storyline is NOT good content.

  
  I sort of agree, the saga trend is tacky. The re-playability on these missions is only good for the reward, otherwise it's just awkward trying to skip through long text dialogs with very brief and easy battles. I'm all for an absolutely massive mob buff alongside reward revamps for many contents in game; that would really bring variety back into play. I'm afraid there's too many players against it though, shame.
• Tropa wrote on 2014-04-20 17:52

  Quote from Zekkii;1216152:

  I sort of agree, the saga trend is tacky. The re-playability on these missions is only good for the reward, otherwise it's just awkward trying to skip through long text dialogs with very brief and easy battles. I'm all for an absolutely massive mob buff alongside reward revamps for many contents in game; that would really bring variety back into play. I'm afraid there's too many players against it though, shame.

  
  
  I think they want the game to die imo, I know alot of people who quit mabi cause the lack of content, I think after devcat is done with their Saga s2, they better start working on real content, the Abyss dungeons were a step in the right direction, but why stop there? theres tons of dungeons they didn't use(Rundal, Barri, Alby, Ciar & Maiz), and we're due for more Missions(and Lord missions)
• JoeyDee9 wrote on 2014-04-20 20:15
  In response to the OP in particular you have to be really careful when buffing monsters.
  
  You can't make a monster tanky AND give it the ability to 1 shot players. A good idea for mobs are low HP, high damage mobs and High HP, moderate damage mobs. The way Peaca abyss was done is kinda ridiculous everything is semi tanky and has the ability to one shot players than have HP near the HP cap. This is kinda crazy since you don't just have 1 or 2 of them but a room full of monsters like this.
  
  Balancing should not be just adding more mobs, with more HP, and more damage, but adding in a moderate amount of monsters with enough HP to survive attacks and enough damage to be hurt players and not kill instantly.
  
  -----------------
  Will have to admit though, I have been disappointed with devcat's choice in updates. I really wanna see more stuff to do not more skills, more powercreep, and more give aways.
• Pyoori wrote on 2014-04-20 20:26
  This might sound a bit defeatist, but I don't really think there's any way to fix the game completely.
  
  Reforges aren't as nearly a problem ( future wise ) as AoE pets. Damage and numbers can always be tweaked, and we can always have tankier mobs.
  
  AoE pets, however, are impossible to balance around. You can make future mobs immune to their stunning, but what about the mobs we already have? You can't take back the actual summoning effect, since people paid for them and there would be a huge outcry. So the only choice is to fix future mobs against them and leave everything else the way it is, which is utterly at the mercy of all of our pets.
• Tyskiyomy wrote on 2014-04-20 21:14
  Or go raid style, no pets are summonable, but then again their inventories are helpful. Maybe make it so in the dungeon their AOE is nullified it can [FONT="Courier New"]A. Still happen but does no affect whatsoever[/FONT] or [FONT="Courier New"]B. It just doesn't happen within that battlefield[/FONT]
  
  Just an idea....
• Aubog007 wrote on 2014-04-21 08:18
  Or just disallow summoning of pets anyway, what would you need in a pet's inventory anyway that you can't carry with the bags you have.
• Pyoori wrote on 2014-04-23 01:03
  That wouldn't really fix the problem of all the mobs we have right now that are affected by the AoE pets though. If people can get level more efficiently by spamming AoE pets then using their wombo combo in martial arts, they probably wouldn't clear more advanced content that would be more time consuming.
• Perfectio wrote on 2014-04-27 00:41
  The reason AOE pets are a problem because 3 seconds is enough to murder every mob in the game.
  
  If it took 10-30 seconds to kill a single mob (which is what it took for the average G10 player to kill the stuff he fought), AOE pets wouldn't be nearly as powerful, because the 3 second stun would only mean that you'd have a whole clump of pissed off monsters trying to kill you, which would require player-based crowd control.
• Zekkii wrote on 2014-04-27 03:38

  Quote from Perfectio;1217260:

  The reason AOE pets are a problem because 3 seconds is enough to murder every mob in the game.
  
  If it took 10-30 seconds to kill a single mob (which is what it took for the average G10 player to kill the stuff he fought), AOE pets wouldn't be nearly as powerful, because the 3 second stun would only mean that you'd have a whole clump of pissed off monsters trying to kill you, which would require player-based crowd control.

  
  There's nothing to stop a player from using 20 or more pets, which would result in indefinite stun. Also consider how almost no one uses counter or defense now, why bother where you can have a pet AOE stun every enemy on the screen and load skills with your character at the same time.