[Mabinogi-JP] Regeneration Update / Ninjas

• Zeo wrote on 2014-06-20 19:04

  Quote from Yoorah;1226877:

  The extent and intensity of the whining is not proportional to the difference in stats between the races. Especially when the gap is insignificant when you look at the big picture--and even more so when this update will actually help close this gap. To argue this is a bit silly; it's like having a millionaire complain about the injustice of social inequality only because he knows his millionaire neighbour has $100 more in his bank account.
  
  TL;DR: The update makes an improvement over the status quo when it comes to Elves' shortcoming in melee capability.

  
  
  The gap is still there. It will make elves better with melee and fighter due to Str and Will Ninja talent give out, yes... but it also will make giants and humans even more powerful because of that, thus... the same gap is still there.
  
  

  Quote from Kapra;1226939:

  If a human does 600 damage and a elf does 400 damage, the gap is huge. If a Human does 1,200 damage damage and an Elf does 1,000 damage, the gap is still just as huge. Ratios, like averages is irrelevant. [SIZE="1"](The average human has 1 boob.)[/SIZE] They distort perception. That gap is justified ONLY if they have other advantages of equal or nearly equal importance, which they do not.

  
  
  Pretty much what some of us tried to explain. Other people just don't get it. It does give elves more stats, sure... but the gap is still the same because humans and giants are still able to get the same amount of stats.
  
  As I said again, our main concern for elves is that they need one or two new talents that they're actually best with.
• Osu wrote on 2014-06-20 19:28

  Quote from Zeo;1227033:

  As I said again, our main concern for elves is that they need one or two new talents that they're actually best with.

  
  I usually don't join in on these things, however much I may agree with them, but I can say this much at least~
  Since they've now exhausted all the str combination options you have a lot more hope for the next thing to be quite elf friendly. :3
• Nightmare wrote on 2014-06-20 19:55

  Quote from nana;1226966:

  Mabi JP is now up from emergency maint.
  before this maint, ppl were abusing non-CT Yamiuchi-Sen allowing one to easily train skill(my friend for example ranked Yamiuchi-Sen to r2 before maint). You can easily check that by going to JP mabi wiki under skill page.
  there was a trick that you didn't know.(although its patched now)
  
  but i dont know where that no-resource drain thingy came from...

  
  
  Was told that it had no cooldown and no resource usage, both aren't true as of now, and I don't think that a bug/trick/exploit should be mentioned when describing the new skills...
• willcaster wrote on 2014-06-20 20:05

  Quote from Osu;1227036:

  I usually don't join in on these things, however much I may agree with them, but I can say this much at least~
  Since they've now exhausted all the str combination options you have a lot more hope for the next thing to be quite elf friendly. :3

  
  
  lul whats next? XD samurai dex/int? giants will QQ and it will become str/hp.
  
  Unless we get fancer Talent and rework to rapier rapier i dont think we get anything special (hopes are still for duelist class rapier + single gun or crossbow) a counter debuffer class <3 *-*
• Slayerj wrote on 2014-06-20 20:15

  Quote from Osu;1227036:

  I usually don't join in on these things, however much I may agree with them, but I can say this much at least~
  Since they've now exhausted all the str combination options you have a lot more hope for the next thing to be quite elf friendly. :3

  
  
  Actually, the only skill set that elves would be the best at would be an Int + Dex set. (Not counting any luck mixes.) Even then, humans would be RIGHT behind him, so as I stated before, it wouldn't really matter. Really, all elves need is to get more int and dex than they do now.
  
  Right now, elves are better at range/magic by a VERY small amount, while giants are better at melee by a LARGE amount. Elves have a large str and slightly big will gap that hurts a few of the skillsets, while giants only lose a bit of puppet dmg and nothing more. (They get enough balance from dex for it to not mater that much.)
  
  It's like, elves are good at stuff by a small amount and bad by a large amount, and giants are good by a large amount, and bad by a small amount. Why can't they both be good at what they're good at by a large amount, and bad at what they're bad at by a small amount and just be equal that way?
• wilson10000 wrote on 2014-06-20 20:32

  Quote from Slayerj;1227052:

  Actually, the only skill set that elves would be the best at would be an Int + Dex set. (Not counting any luck mixes.) Even then, humans would be RIGHT behind him, so as I stated before, it wouldn't really matter. Really, all elves need is to get more int and dex than they do now.
  
  Right now, elves are better at range/magic by a VERY small amount, while giants are better at melee by a LARGE amount. Elves have a large str and slightly big will gap that hurts a few of the skillsets, while giants only lose a bit of puppet dmg and nothing more. (They get enough balance from dex for it to not mater that much.)
  
  It's like, elves are good at stuff by a small amount and bad by a large amount, and giants are good by a large amount, and bad by a small amount. Why can't they both be good at what they're good at by a large amount, and bad at what they're bad at by a small amount and just be equal that way?

  
  
  The only skill set that elves are bad at is Melee.
  
  As a human player I find myself using melee less and less often because other skill sets do much better than melee like puppet, gunner, magic and ranged. Lance is pretty good, but not needed to clear mabinogi content.
  
  *Melee is not needed unless you get Smash points for raid boss*
  
  You don't have to use a giant to beat Mabinogi, they only have an easier time early level. End game it doesn't matter, and quite frankly everyone is underrating elf speed. I would Love to have elf speed on my human when I use blaze or run close up for crash shot point blank range.
• willcaster wrote on 2014-06-20 20:43

  Quote from wilson10000;1227055:

  The only skill set that elves are bad at is Melee.
  
  As a human player I find myself using melee less and less often because other skill sets do much better than melee like puppet, gunner, magic and ranged. Lance is pretty good, but not needed to clear mabinogi content.
  
  *Melee is not needed unless you get Smash points for raid boss*
  
  You don't have to use a giant to beat Mabinogi, they only have an easier time early level. End game it doesn't matter, and quite frankly everyone is underrating elf speed. I would Love to have elf speed on my human when I use blaze or run close up for crash shot point blank range.

  
  
  with lag runspeed is actually worst ._. since i started ranking magic i noticed more and more how my client poisition lags (fix it :play dead and fly back to its original position) with archery u dont notice this because u can aim and actually shoot 100% = 0% some times. Unlike magic that it wont let u shoot (thx goddess for spellwalk)
  
  dosent giants have throwing or something like that ?? it hits what= 900% based on str with 90-99% succes rate? with long cooldown (if they had a shorter cooldown they would be better rangers than humans and elves)
• Twin wrote on 2014-06-20 21:08
  Is this a race debate page now?
• Yoorah wrote on 2014-06-21 01:45

  Quote from Zeo;1227033:

  The gap is still there. It will make elves better with melee and fighter due to Str and Will Ninja talent give out, yes... but it also will make giants and humans even more powerful because of that, thus... the same gap is still there.
  
  Pretty much what some of us tried to explain. Other people just don't get it. It does give elves more stats, sure... but the gap is still the same because humans and giants are still able to get the same amount of stats.

  
  Again, you need to understand how math works. When total stats go up, if the gap doesn't grow, it effectively becomes smaller. Re-read the previous explanation with the stats and money as examples... it should be easy enough to understand. If you can't grasp the concept of ratios, then I don't know what else to tell you. It's really basic math. D:
  
  

  Quote from Zeo;1227033:

  As I said again, our main concern for elves is that they need one or two new talents that they're actually best with.

  
  This goes without saying. The thing is, the whole point is hugely overblown to the extent that it's quite silly.
  
  When Elves and Giants came out, I thought a lot about the benefits of starting a new char. I knew there was a good chance that my human would suck at melee compared to a Giant and that it would suck at ranged compared to an Elf. I decided not to worry about it and just enjoy the game with my current character in the end, and that's that. I just don't see what the big deal is.
  
  I still think that the far bigger problem for most Elven players is that they don't have a strong STR/WILL base, so they won't be as well-prepared for this. I haven't seen anyone point this out, however... perhaps because they can't blame someone else in such a situation.
  
  This update may not give elves the spotlight, but it does help even them out in their shortcomings in terms of stats. I hope no one's trying to argue against this simple fact. xP
• Chiyuri wrote on 2014-06-21 01:54
  *is still waiting for the hybrid Int X Dex skill set*
• Yoorah wrote on 2014-06-21 02:00
  No, we should get a STR x HP skill set instead. x)
• Space Pirate Nithiel wrote on 2014-06-21 02:04
  Why is it so important to be the best anyway? You can't win an MMO. Just play what you want and enjoy the game. (What little of it is enjoyable)
• Yoorah wrote on 2014-06-21 02:10

  Quote from Space Pirate Nithiel;1227098:

  Why is it so important to be the best anyway? You can't win an MMO. Just play what you want and enjoy the game. (What little of it is enjoyable)

  
  
  [video=youtube;qyXTgqJtoGM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyXTgqJtoGM[/video]
  Highly relevant. Someone needs to make a Mabinogi race/stats rant version of this.
• Tropa wrote on 2014-06-21 02:19

  Quote from Yoorah;1227099:

  
  Highly relevant. Someone needs to make a Mabinogi race/stats rant version of this.

  
  
  I would, but I'm not in a creative mood.
  
  

  Quote from willcaster;1227042:

  Unless we get fancer Talent and rework to rapier

  
  
  Yes please
• Kapra wrote on 2014-06-21 02:33

  Quote from Yoorah;1227094:

  Again, you need to understand how math works. When total stats go up, if the gap doesn't grow, it effectively becomes smaller. Re-read the previous explanation with the stats and money as examples... it should be easy enough to understand. If you can't grasp the concept of ratios, then I don't know what else to tell you. It's really basic math. D:

  Having one thousand diamonds instead of one diamond does not diminish the significance of the one diamond. That's just my and his/her (and maybe most people who argued for Elves in this thread)'s view.
  
  

  Quote from Yoorah;1227094:

  
  When Elves and Giants came out, I thought a lot about the benefits of starting a new char. I knew there was a good chance that my human would suck at melee compared to a Giant and that it would suck at ranged compared to an Elf.

  
  When I created an Elf, I expected to suck at Melee to have more potential in either Archery or Magic. At the moment, Archery is actually better on a Human than an Elf. That being said, Magic is BARELY helpful on SOME magic skills due to the varying magic coefficients. On the other hand, comparing a Human to an Elf, not even comparing to a giant, has a HUGE gap in almost all skillsets except Archery and Magic, in which case Humans are slightly better Archers and Humans are slightly better Mages.
  
  I don't think the barely 1 extra magic attack justifies all the fallbacks of an Elf. Especially since there were advantages, the disadvantages weren't as hard, back when Elves came out. Many people are getting the middle finger every other update because of this. Elves need to have SOME advantage in something. Its not like people who have worked hard on their Elves can just switch to a Human.
  
  Think of it this way:
  - Mabi is not equal reward for equal effort. Giants for example, get a better reward for the same amount of effort that a Human does.
  - This is not okay if there is no case in which one of the races has a better reward. In some cases Elves have to spend even more effect and even more MP for the same thing as Humans.
  
  The Human-Giant gap is balanced, whats imbalanced with this relationship is that giants have 5 talents whereas Humans only have 2. However, given the nature of Humans, they can easily add more Human talents given the right combination of two stats.
  
  On the other hand, with the Human-Elf situation, Elves only have 1 talent and the gap is imbalanced, so they are both lacking talents and stats.