Well yeah we don't need it with mob lag already being a thing haha, but what they meant to imply was something couldn't move again after that, at all~
I've seen one person say it one time on these forums. I've no idea if it is actually the case
Well yeah we don't need it with mob lag already being a thing haha, but what they meant to imply was something couldn't move again after that, at all~
You also complain about anything without an elemental reforge basically. o3o
The idea of down talking a free to play game's mechanic that you pay for as a downside to a skillset just doesn't sit right with me.
Tell me you hit those same superior numbers when raw +percentages are taken out of the equation~ I know my lance hits harder but it's fucking boring too rofl. I've got more damage to get out of enchants and my own personal overture--r4 with masteries being r5 and r6, but rasenzan is around 16k for me without any special upgrading, and sakura abyss is 30k~75k damage every 5 minutes :U Pretty sure peak damage on kunai storm is about 9k too, which my lance is only capable of with windmill, with the ice 4 it has.
All in all I could just reword it simply, the people who complain aren't stat-heavy enough to use it, or are too spoiled by their reforges* :P
I'm actually pretty offended. You do realize I'm not reforge heavy at all? Only my weapons and gloves have been reforged, and gloves and bars aren't even rank 1. Even if I didn't have elemental reforges, I would be putting enough damage out to faceroll the current content.
If you're gonna argue, at least say what others do correctly. When did I ever complain about skills not having elemental reforges? Puppet and magic, they're both totally more than fine without reforges.
I could just go run every mission just by using a basic control bar and it would still get the job better done than ninja.
If you think I'm spoiled by reforges, I'm quite the opposite actually.
Like it or not, ninja does still fall off due to many reasons:
1. Str + will damage ratio is the lowest out of any skillset right now. Every other skillset, even gunner, thanks to stupid amount of int we can get, has better damage scaling, reforged AND reforgeless.
2. Limited utility. There is shadow bind, which only gets merit when used with reforges, and will still likely get shadowed over by lullaby. Let's not even talk about smokescreen. Explosive kunais have alright slows, but the chance is, by the time you set up the mines, you could have just killed other things quickly.
3. Higher cooldown or/and loading time. The one skill known for low cooldown is kunai storm. While lacking in damage still, its ability to not aggro mobs is okay, but negligible since you probably killed the mob anyway. The skill has an awkward cooldown, basically made to be spammed awkwardly. Shooting rush has the higher damage in general, provides mobility, and have other skills to complement well. Kunai storm only has shadow bind and lullaby.
4. Limited upgrades. These really make ninja unfortunate. Reforges horrible ridiculously, with maybe the exception to shadow bind. The special upgrades don't help either, when the red upgrade isn't exactly giving the power spikes other weapons are able to provide.
I'm not complaining at all, I'm just stating the facts. If anything, I'm welcoming ninja, because it does give ridiculous stats. What do many like to do? Raise and make their character better, right? Ninja is definitely a part of that process.
Let's take it step by step. I'm at a position where I'm closer to str cap than you are, and further from will, for about the right amount, so my rasenzan would do about the same damage. I mean, sure I can use it in missions, but why would I use it when my range and lance would hit higher and clear faster anyway? Even without higher elemental reforge, the case would still hold true.
If the person using the skillset is one of those people that have good enough enchants but no good reforge (even less than what I use), then I could see this skillset being useful. But against fully-reforged other classes? I'd say it'd lose out, just like how puppet starts to fall off in reforges. The fact that these won't have elemental reforges puts their damage potential behind, just like how dual guns' damage reforge is still inferior to mid-elemental reforge. The elemental enchants also start shadowing over the skillsets' high multiplier, as most elemental-reforged weapons will still show higher damage on the character screen, and elemental modifiers would make the skill multiplier to be about the same as ninja skills (ex: elemental 6 smash = ~900%, elemental 6 windmill = ~370~90%). It's kinda like how we see skills like magnum do more than flash launcher, even though magnum has way less multiplier.
Things
Things
My point is that it is a weaker skillset in terms of damage and utility, even accounting for the lack of elemental efforts. Sure, ninja can produce a higher one time hit digits without any reforges, but not like a blaze can, and at the cost of longer cast time too. It's kind of like how you could argue that drop kick hits higher, but still limited by its cd. As for elemental reforge, you can clearly tell the effectiveness in Lord missions, where lance still shines, and range is still good enough to use.
Reforge or not, this skillset is bound to get outscaled. I already stated the problems, and they only become visible as you level up. As for me, I'm sitting at 720-30 with my knight lance, and 700 with my shurikens. Character screen damage isn't everything though. In fact, ninja will have about the same max damage as others. It's the nature of the skills that will make it not scale as well.
Anyway, people can do whatever, end game ninja still will kill just about everything anyway. It's just a matter of if you want to faceroll quicker or not I guess.
My lance and Ninja max are about the same. Let's say both are 600 just to demonstrate.
Kunai Storm has 400% multiplier with 6 sec cd =0.667 Damage Per second
Normal Melee Wm has 250% multiplier 3.5 sec cd =0.714 Damage per sec
That is the damage comparision if you are spamming both Kunai storm and Melee wm. Kunai storm also acts like TH or multi hit skills where each individual hit can crit to have a higher sustained damage, whereas wm is like a fireball in magic terms.
Top it off, ninja has Shadow bind utility and shadow cloak utility. And the fact that Kunai storm isn't like wm where the mobs are scattered after attacking, instead it's like crash shot where they stay in the same place allowing another person or skill set to follow it up. It's a very good party skill.
I personally think Ninja is good enough to be considered to be a great secondary skill set for hybrid even though it has lower damage than gunner. It has utility + party play going for it. Overall definitely not outclassed if you use it correctly.
Would I main Ninja? Nope.
Could you main Ninja? Sure. You could probably main healing wand normal melee at this point.
Would I main Ninja? Nope.
Could you main Ninja? Sure. You could probably main healing wand normal melee at this point.
Not really accurate. Constant factors are largely unimportant; everything sans fighter ends up at around 1.1~1.3k damage after BFO.
Kunai Storm: 400%
x2.92 Critical
11.6x damage
6.5x damage (avg)
Windmill: 250%
x3.12 Critical
x1.55 Reforge
x1.58 Pierce (typical influence on 50% prot mob)
19.1x damage
10.4x damage (avg)
Ninja has a few unique and situationally useful skills but you'll end up relying heavily on Kunai Storm. Charging Shuriken has decent damage but it's messy and takes too much time. Thankfully Sakura Abyss is probably the most reliably powerful skill; though less available and a bit more situational than Blaze. That alone warrants some value.
Would I main Ninja? Nope.
Could you main Ninja? Sure. You could probably main healing wand normal melee at this point.
And how do you think factoring in ele 6 is fair?
And how do you think factoring in ele 6 is fair?
And how do you think factoring in ele 6 is fair?
It's fair because it's realistic and it applies to the current state of the meta-game. Ask a Korean player that question and their entire server will laugh at you.
Disregarding reforges, Ninja is still lackluster because it has to compete with the juggernaut talents of magic, alchemy, puppetry, and gunslinger and the talents which comprise their stat pools (magic, melee/range, melee/magic vs melee/fighter).
None of this class discussion matters end-game (where Ninja falls short) but the problem with Ninja is that is has a hell of a time finding a home in the current meta-game. It's very weak early on and it falls off quickly.