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Yoorah wrote on 2014-11-03 01:41
Quote from Murasaki;1252893:
Women who call themselves feminists but obstruct equality really get on my fucking nerves. There's a word for trying to hinder someone's rights based on their sex. Sexism. Ugh.
It's upsetting that legitimate problems get overshadowed by shitty behavior. Men have problems too, and it's sad that their fellow men put them down for trying to express that. It's even more upsetting when women do this, because women should know what it feels like to have expectations pushed on them based on their sex or their gender.
Men don't care as much about other men putting them down as they do about women doing so. Ultimately, they have to live up to the womens' expectations; "knowing what it feels like to have expectations pushed on them based on their sex or gender" isn't something that women would know more about than men. Discrimination has many forms and it affects many groups.
Quote from Murasaki;1252893:
And then I run into shit like this:
[video=youtubeold;grV1iDns87s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grV1iDns87s[/video]
Is this the real life....
[S]I need to go to Japan.[/S] That's rather disturbing. He's abusing the fact that Japanese girls are into white guys, giving us a bad name in the process. :(
As for comments, yea.. just... don't do it. Reminds me of this:
[video=youtube;xwbeddZ9aKI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwbeddZ9aKI[/video]
...and this was even before the Tumblr SJW crap became a thing. D:
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Murasaki wrote on 2014-11-03 02:18
[video=youtubeold;hceA-PIPQzI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hceA-PIPQzI[/video]
This guy has things to say about the video.
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Kaon wrote on 2014-11-03 05:31
Quote from Yoorah;1252971:
Men don't care as much about other men putting them down as they do about women doing so. Ultimately, they have to live up to the womens' expectations; "knowing what it feels like to have expectations pushed on them based on their sex or gender" isn't something that women would know more about than men. Discrimination has many forms and it affects many groups.
Women know about this just as well.. don't you think your own statement applies here, than men wouldn't know better than women? Discrimination does indeed have many forms, and the ways it affects women are indeed different than men. And they're for sure not lesser, especially those based on sex or gender.
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Space Pirate Nithiel wrote on 2014-11-03 08:00
Quote from Murasaki;1252974:
[video=youtubeold;hceA-PIPQzI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hceA-PIPQzI[/video]
This guy has things to say about the video.
Kind of disagree with some of his statements in the video. You DO have the right to talk to random strangers whenever you damn well please. However, the random strangers also have the right to say they don't feel like talking to you, at which point you should back off. Hell, some of the best conversations I've ever had were with total strangers I met on the street or waiting in line at the store or something. "That's a nice shirt" can start a lifelong friendship, mang.
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Zekkii wrote on 2014-11-03 11:01
The video would have had more effect if they had a real criteria for harassment; when you include pleasantries and casual greetings then you're opening the doors for criticism. Not to mention she's wearing rather revealing clothing. What do you suppose people would think of men wore tight pants that accentuated their genitalia or butts? That's a weird thought, but the points is that this shouldn't be considered un-provocative/normal street clothes.
It's not to say that there weren't some instances in the video where people went over the line but of the hundreds and hundreds of worthy charities out there, I think my money is going elsewhere. It sucks that women have to deal with crude streetfolk but I don't see this organization having a huge impact.
The one guy who followed her for 5 minutes was the only thing that would really bother me, I wonder how he would have reacted if she told him to back off. Considering walking 5 minutes is about the length of a medium length street, I'm guessing he would have done so. I'm not excusing the guy though, dude is a creep. Could have been much worse for 10 hours, if that's the worst minute of it. It would be nice if that minute didn't happen, but let's not lose any sleep over it.
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Drizzit wrote on 2014-11-03 12:57
That clothing was in no way revealing, at least not any nite than any other kind of woman's clothing. I do feel like a lot of those greetings were casual though.
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Campylobacter jejuni wrote on 2014-11-03 17:25
She didn't really succeed in hiding her AAA+ curves with this outfit, I think that's what he's trying to say. There are countless ways of dressing that make sure it's not quite that apparent, if that's really important to you. I personally know women with decidedly larger breasts that are not nearly as apparent just because they don't burst forth like in this tight t-shirt (on an unrelated sidenote, I think using t-shirts as top layers should be outlawed).
Thinking of it, the way she wore her hair and made up her face may also have been interpreted as an invitation to flirt by some.
This post is not meant to relativise the rudeness and uncouthness of some of these comments.
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Kaon wrote on 2014-11-03 21:40
Why, exactly, is being harassed in any way, the victims fault? Are we really to assume that men in our society are so honestly dumb they can't help but succumb to their physical urges because they see some curves or cleavage?
That's bullshit lol. That's disrespectful to women, and disrespectful to men as well. Women should be able to walk anywhere without fear wearing whatever they want, and men should have reasonable self control to respect that. Or are you all gonna admit you don't have that kind of self control?
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Doot Doot wrote on 2014-11-03 21:49
A woman shouldn't have to wear a trash bag so that you can control your dick. Some of these comments have me flabbergasted.
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SlurpTASTY wrote on 2014-11-03 22:33
Quote from Kaon;1253045:
Why, exactly, is being harassed in any way, the victims fault? Are we really to assume that men in our society are so honestly dumb they can't help but succumb to their physical urges because they see some curves or cleavage?
That's bullshit lol. That's disrespectful to women, and disrespectful to men as well. Women should be able to walk anywhere without fear wearing whatever they want, and men should have reasonable self control to respect that. Or are you all gonna admit you don't have that kind of self control?
Just because we have that type of self control doesn't mean others do. I should be allowed to leave my house with door unlocked, or leave my car in a parking lot without worrying about it being stolen, but this is the real world where there are shitty people. I've never had the sudden urge to rape a girl because shes wearing a certain type of clothing, or rob someones house because I see their door is open, but there people who do get these urges and follow up on them.
It's not victim blaming as much as it is pointing out that they're also part of the problem (and the reason there is no progress about this is because as soon as someone says the "victim" has to take some responsibility its suddenly victim blaming). As I said this is the real world not la la land where everyone is perfect and we all live in harmony. If you have huge boobs and a big butt and go out in tight clothing where everyone can see them bouncing around get ready for scum bags to harrass you, if you don't like it go somewhere else or dress in clothing that isn't as tight because making a video like this isn't gonna do shit for the cause.
Just my opinion though.
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Kaon wrote on 2014-11-03 22:43
Quote from SlurpTASTY;1253054:
Just because we have that type of self control doesn't mean others do. I should be allowed to leave my house with door unlocked, or leave my car in a parking lot without worrying about it being stolen, but this is the real world where there are shitty people. I've never had the sudden urge to rape a girl because shes wearing a certain type of clothing, or rob someones house because I see their door is open, but there people who do get these urges and follow up on them.
It's not victim blaming as much as it is pointing out that they're also part of the problem (and the reason there is no progress about this is because as soon as someone says the "victim" has to take some responsibility its suddenly victim blaming). As I said this is the real world not la la land where everyone is perfect and we all live in harmony. If you have huge boobs and a big butt and go out in tight clothing where everyone can see them bouncing around get ready for scum bags to harrass you, if you don't like it go somewhere else or dress in clothing that isn't as tight because making a video like this isn't gonna do shit for the cause.
Just my opinion though.
It's not even a majority of this treatment that's directed towards girls wearing 'slutty clothing'. It's a pointless argument, where the important thing here is that NOBODY should have to be worried for their safety based on what they wear. And it happens all the time.
'This girl got raped'
'well, what was she wearing?'
WHY IS THIS THE FIRST QUESTION? Are we seriously the kind of society that jumps to ask first what the victim did wrong, as opposed to the PERSON WHO OBVIOUSLY RAPED THEM?
It is victim blaming. And it's just a distraction from the real issue. Just like all the men that feel the need to get defensive like they're the ones being accused. All of these things are beside the point.. the point is, society has taught men that it's their entitlement to follow up on these urges, and everyone can do something about it. Whether it be a small thing you notice around you, or drawing attention to the issue.. as opposed to downplaying it because you're nitpicky about the situation or some specific video.
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Campylobacter jejuni wrote on 2014-11-03 22:54
Quote from Kaon;1253045:
Why, exactly, is being harassed in any way, the victims fault? Are we really to assume that men in our society are so honestly dumb they can't help but succumb to their physical urges because they see some curves or cleavage?
Excusing it is
explicitly not the purpose of my post.
Quote from Campylobacter jejuni;1253025:
This post is not meant to relativise the rudeness and uncouthness of some of these comments.
Regardless
Quote from Kaon;1253055:
the point is, society has taught men that it's their entitlement to follow up on these urges, and everyone can do something about it. Whether it be a small thing you notice around you, or drawing attention to the issue.. as opposed to downplaying it because you're nitpicky about the situation or some specific video.
I hope you don't mean to imply anything about rape culture here. I can tell you with certainty that as a man I was never remotely taught indirectly or directly, consciously or subconsciously, that women are up for grabs.
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Kaon wrote on 2014-11-03 22:58
Quote from Campylobacter jejuni;1253058:
Excusing it is explicitly not the purpose of my post.
And my post wasn't specifically aimed at you. I just don't think what she was wearing was the issue, or should be the issue, and it's being discussed like it's core to the issue.
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Campylobacter jejuni wrote on 2014-11-03 23:01
Ok good.
I didn't follow all 8 pages of the dicussion so I can't comment on that.
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SlurpTASTY wrote on 2014-11-03 23:06
Quote from Kaon;1253055:
the point is, society has taught men that it's their entitlement to follow up on these urges, and everyone can do something about it.
Hold up, what? I've never once been taught that it's my right to start harassing woman, I think many of the guys on this forum (or pretty much anywhere) can also agree. Are you not a male who also disagrees with the behavior of men harassing women? I'm not against what you're saying just because my viewpoint is different.
Also you seem to miss the point completely (I'm not even talking about being raped because that will happen regardless of what you're wearing), I never disagreed about people not having to be worried about their safety based on their clothing. I'm merely stating that in a perfect world girls would not be harassed by people based on their clothing, but this isn't a perfect world and unfortunately you have to live with it or adapt. All the things I stated in my previous post are things nobody (reasonably) should have to be worried about, but billions of dollars are put into car/house insurance and alarms. There are certain precautions people have to take to avoid certain situations.
I think Kyishi illustrated the point perfectly in another thread:
a racist man kills another man for being black
he was killed because he was black
if he was not black, he wouldn't have been killed
i am not blaming him, i am stating a fact.
a man sexually harasses a woman because she was wearing a certain attire
she was harassed because of her attire
if she was not wearing the attire, she wouldn't have been harassed
i am not blaming her, i am stating a fact
and what you see as victim blaming others see as fact stating