Gender Expectations

• Kyishi wrote on 2014-11-05 20:05

  Quote from Kaon;1253239:

  Because feeling those feelings and admitting to those feelings means you aren't dealing with it in a mature fashion? I'm not sitting in my room wallowing all day, hoping it's gonna go away. I'm taking action to change my life for the better and get into a place where I'm comfortable with myself and live happily. What exactly is more strong willed and mature than that, in this situation?
  
  All I'm saying, is you have no respect for a real issue, and that's what lacks maturity.
  
  
  As for 'more harassment'.. that depends entirely on how well you pass. If you don't.. then it's far worse, unless you're lucky enough to be in an accepting community. Most people aren't that lucky.

  
  
  When it gets to the point that you're saying "you want to kill yourself", it is no longer mature and you're not thinking rationally at all.
  
  Even in your post, you are upset about people who don't accept you now that you're "transgender", etc.
  
  My point is, and has always been, if you're going to get this distressed over the identity you associate yourself with, I sincerely doubt you're going to be emotionally stable enough to deal with other real world problems. Good luck dealing with terrible situations that are completely out of control, I guess.
• Kaon wrote on 2014-11-05 20:19

  Quote from Kyishi;1253240:

  When it gets to the point that you're saying "you want to kill yourself", it is no longer mature and you're not thinking rationally at all.
  
  Even in your post, you are upset about people who don't accept you now that you're "transgender", etc.
  
  My point is, and has always been, if you're going to get this distressed over the identity you associate yourself with, I sincerely doubt you're going to be emotionally stable enough to deal with other real world problems. Good luck dealing with terrible situations that are completely out of control, I guess.

  
  
  1. I never said I wanted to kill myself.
  2. I'm not speaking specifically from personal experience about these issues.
  
  3. who the fuck are you to call emotional and mental issues mature or not.
  
  My point is, you're missing the point entirely, and you have no perspective on this issue.
• Yoorah wrote on 2014-11-05 20:23
  At work atm, briefly looked at thread during break so no time to respond to some things I wanna respond, but Kyishi: Major WTF if you think that this kind of baiting and mean-spiritedness is acceptable in any type of discussion. Being mildly snarky or sarcastic is OK if you do it in a limited fashion, but if you continue with this level of obnoxiousness, I can see you earning yourself a second ban.
  
  I realize this doesn't contribute much to the debate--my apologies. I think a serious shift in attitudes is needed here, though.
• Kyishi wrote on 2014-11-05 20:42

  Quote from Kaon;1253244:

  1. I never said I wanted to kill myself.
  2. I'm not speaking specifically from personal experience about these issues.
  
  3. who the fuck are you to call emotional and mental issues mature or not.
  
  My point is, you're missing the point entirely, and you have no perspective on this issue.

  
  
  you asserted your point pretty clearly that "those who live disassociated with their body kill themselves".
  
  clearly you're not, most of your content seemed over exaggerated and over dramatic
  
  i never said emotional problems were immature, i said how you deal with them are.
  
  i don't have a perspective on transgenders, but more of the lack of backbone a lot of people seem to have.
  
  
  “Care about what other people think and you will always be their prisoner.”
  ― Lao Tzu
• Kaon wrote on 2014-11-05 20:50

  Quote from Kyishi;1253247:

  you asserted your point pretty clearly that "those who live disassociated with their body kill themselves".
  
  clearly you're not, most of your content seemed over exaggerated and over dramatic
  
  i never said emotional problems were immature, i said how you deal with them are.
  
  i don't have a perspective on transgenders, but more of the lack of backbone a lot of people seem to have.
  
  
  “Care about what other people think and you will always be their prisoner.”
  ― Lao Tzu

  
  
  
  
  Okay so now you're making it obvious you can't even read what I said correctly. I'm obviously wasting my time here. You're just trying to be offensive at this point.
• Kyishi wrote on 2014-11-05 21:02

  Quote from Kaon;1253248:

  Okay so now you're making it obvious you can't even read what I said correctly. I'm obviously wasting my time here. You're just trying to be offensive at this point.

  
  
  http://puu.sh/cEGcG.jpg
  if u say so
• Kaon wrote on 2014-11-05 21:07

  Quote from Kyishi;1253251:

  http://puu.sh/cEGcG.jpg
  if u say so

  
  
  

  Quote from Kyishi;1253247:

  you asserted your point pretty clearly that "those who live disassociated with their body kill themselves".

  
  
  You interpreted what I said earlier as people arbitrarily dying from the issue.
  I corrected that, explaining that no, the risk of life is suicide. This doesn't mean that all people with the issue kill themselves. Yes, the suicide rate is higher tho in people with the issue.
  
  Regardless, you're still missing the point, you're still basically trolling, and you still have no idea what you're talking about.
• Kyishi wrote on 2014-11-05 21:11

  Quote from Kaon;1253252:

  You interpreted what I said earlier as people arbitrarily dying from the issue.
  I corrected that, explaining that no, the risk of life is suicide. This doesn't mean that all people with the issue kill themselves. Yes, the suicide rate is higher tho in people with the issue.
  
  Regardless, you're still missing the point, you're still basically trolling, and you still have no idea what you're talking about.

  
  
  Uh, I knew exactly what you meant, which is why I pointed it out as a disturbing thought to begin with. I don't see how I "missed your point" to begin with. I never directly addressed it, but rather pointed out the immaturity in your selected argument.
• Aubog007 wrote on 2014-11-05 21:18

  Quote from TLCBonaparte;1253225:

  Actually we are moving faster culturally than before. New media brings about faster cultural integrations. So probably another decade top.

  
  
  Like i said. Internetless people still exist, i would say around 30-40 years. + perhaps some of their children pass on as well.
  
  And as for the other remarks... Damn this thread just proved my point. In both sides.
• Kyishi wrote on 2014-11-05 21:42
  ANYWAY.
  I apologize if I seemed mean or condescending or whatever, because that was not my intention, but rather made of annoyance towards comments reflecting self harming behavior and what seemed to be a justifcation towards said behavior. I was not trying to attack u or the transgender community op. |:
• Bunny wrote on 2014-11-05 21:53
  [FONT="Arial"]While debating/discussing this topic is fine, I want to emphasize that we should be doing this in a healthy manner rather than jabbing at people or coming off as condescending.
  
  If it continues, I'll be moving this to Rua's House, so let's keep this clean please.[/FONT]
• Kaon wrote on 2014-11-05 22:26

  Quote from Kyishi;1253259:

  ANYWAY.
  I apologize if I seemed mean or condescending or whatever, because that was not my intention, but rather made of annoyance towards comments reflecting self harming behavior and what seemed to be a justifcation towards said behavior. I was not trying to attack u or the transgender community op. |:

  
  
  It really really did come off that way.
  I'm not trying to justify any specific self harming behavior, I'm just saying that in that situation, life feels like a lie so you don't have any interest in living it. Changing it is the healthy response, suicide is not, but you can't do neither and live a happy life. It's not possible in this situation to just disregard gender... I feel like that's only possible for people that are comfortable in their own skin.
• Murasaki wrote on 2014-11-06 03:54

  Quote from Prague;1253182:

  Two sides of a coin. It's not necessarily religion.
  
  Plenty of people think that women doing housewife things is horrible and taboo and abusive and it's not. Some of us do it because we like to see our man /happy/ because doing nice thing for people makes them happy.

  
  
  For me, it was definitely religion. I know it doesn't apply to anyone, and I have nothing against people who choose to live a lifestyle different from my own. So long as they like their life and are happy with it, it's perfectly fine with me. My main issue is that people try to push things on me that just aren't me. I generally dislike children and can't see myself with one, yet people insist that I should have some soon, or get married or something. It's a bit irritating. I don't think they'd like it very much if I told them to live their lives in ways that they themselves don't want.
  
  I'm also not really looking to get married, possibly ever. If that's someone's cup of tea, great. I'm just more of a really awesome friendships and doing things for friends kind of person. Haha ;;
• Space Pirate Nithiel wrote on 2014-11-06 04:23
  I prefer a submissive obedient woman but that has nothing to do with sexism.
  
  [SPOILER="Sperler."]

  [Image: http://puu.sh/cF9zy/13a11eff98.png]

  [/SPOILER]
• Yoorah wrote on 2014-11-06 05:05

  Quote from Iljimae;1253158:

  My post is slightly off-topic, but I feel it is pertinent to the thread.
  
  The group therapy session about tumblr woes in a lot of threads recently has been really turning me away from even posting on Mabination anymore, despite reading often. But the reason I stick around is the same reason I'm posting this right now. The matter of that I won't generalize an entire website or group of people by the actions or words of a few, even if they are the loudest. The boards are a median filled with many different types and groups of people. It seems like such a simple concept to not make large scale generalizations, but many of the arguments posted recently, especially in regards to social and gender issues, are weakened by what seems to be a giant circle-jerk about Tumblr.
  
  For example, while you might disagree with a mentality on 4Chan or Reddit, there are many areas of the websites that you will most likely find agreeable with your own perspectives and values. Tumblr is used as a median for many different things, I myself use it for my art and for pictures of delicious food.
  
  I have friends who use it for writing.
  
  I have friends who use it just to post pictures of things they like.
  
  And there are people who use it as a social platform to discuss issues or identify themselves. Issues you might disagree with and identifications you might find silly. But that's no reason to decide to condemn an entire website or put yourself on a pedestal above someone else.
  
  It comes off as degrading towards other fellow human beings rather than insightful as to why you feel a certain way about an action or mentality.
  
  Instead of saying "Tumblr" in your arguments to try to strengthen your point, why not discuss specifics of what you're finding issue with, or a certain mentality of person, and leave the generalizations nearly akin to how some view race out of it.
  
  Just some food for thought, I'd rather not derail this discussion further.

  
  I think everyone understands that not everyone on Tumblr is a dumbass SJW, nor does anyone make fun of Tumblr-types to support their argument (actually, I didn't check.. but I think most would agree that it wouldn't make sense to do so.) I have friends who use it for art and whatnot as well; nobody has a problem with these people, nor are people in general targeted for being on Tumblr.
  
  I think people only use it as a negative label to describe the spreading of stupidity via social media, e.g. "tumblr-feminists." I haven't seen people insulting "tumblr-artists," for instance.
  ... If this actually happens, then it doesn't make much sense to me.
  
  ---
  
  As for the topic at hand, on the personal level? I'm not really sure. Haven't had much time nor interest to think about it a whole lot.
  
  My parents expect me to get married eventually, but they are not pushing me to do it. I don't think I could be a very dedicated boyfriend or husband at this point, as I'm too focused on building myself and my career. I suppose I'd be expected to dedicate more time to the lady.
  
  In terms of general observations, I find it interesting that mens' and womens' roles are converging in a way. Men are expected to be more feminine (house-husbands, etc.), but still be macho breadwinners. Women are likewise expected to get srs bsns careers, yet still be nice house-waifus. An interesting point is that this shift is causing people to be less happy. People expected the reverse.