[Mabinogi-KR] Renovation: Close Combat Updates (Consolidated and Organized)

• Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-02-10 03:52

  Quote from ReFuSeR;1264601:

  [video=youtube;Mpe1Qq6Tv-0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mpe1Qq6Tv-0[/video]
  
  Not sure if this was already posted but... FH too strong or what? My God. Putting ele 3 on my flame sword most definitely.

  
  
  That might have been posted somewhere. There was also a video where someone ran NPC boss round with FH and beat it in 20 seconds.
• ReFuSeR wrote on 2015-02-10 04:00

  Quote from Darkboy132;1264604:

  That might have been posted somewhere. There was also a video where someone ran NPC boss round with FH and beat it in 20 seconds.

  
  
  That is so ridiculously overpowered it's not even funny anymore.
• Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-02-10 22:50

  Quote from ReFuSeR;1264607:

  That is so ridiculously overpowered it's not even funny anymore.

  
  
  

  
  
  • Melee: Final Hit.
    
  • Magic: Lightning Rod.
    
  • Ranged: Throwing Attack, and maybe more later on.
    

  
  
  Clearly the new director is insane...
• Kelvas wrote on 2015-02-10 22:58

  Quote from Darkboy132;1264644:

  
  
  • Melee: Final Hit.
    
  • Magic: Lightning Rod.
    
  • Ranged: Throwing Attack, and maybe more later on.
    

  
  
  Clearly the new director is insane...

  
  
  I actually like this director. Sure, final hit was a bit much, but not that many people would give up their +9 lances just to use a skill that has a decent cooldown, especially since most things in the game can be killed really quickly even without final hit. Only a small percentage of people would set up for it to make it truly insane. I'll probably use it, but there's no way I'm going to make new weapons and reforge for ele 3 on both, and get a final hit cooldown and duration reforge.
  
  There's nothing wrong with Lightning Rod. It's stronger than hailstorm, weaker than blaze and meteor strike.
  
  Throwing attack is a limited use skill that requires a certain weapon which occupies a slot. Currently, ele reforges do not apply, so smashing with a lance is better.
• Kaeporo wrote on 2015-02-10 23:10

  Quote from Kelvas;1264647:

  I actually like this director. Sure, final hit was a bit much, but not that many people would give up their +9 lances just to use a skill that has a decent cooldown, especially since most things in the game can be killed really quickly even without final hit. Only a small percentage of people would set up for it to make it truly insane. I'll probably use it, but there's no way I'm going to make new weapons and reforge for ele 3 on both, and get a final hit cooldown and duration reforge.
  
  There's nothing wrong with Lightning Rod. It's stronger than hailstorm, weaker than blaze and meteor strike.
  
  Throwing attack is a limited use skill that requires a certain weapon which occupies a slot. Currently, ele reforges do not apply, so smashing with a lance is better.

  
  
  Nothing wrong with Lightning Rod? Realistically stronger than Meteor Strike, much more flexible and reliable than Blaze, and with its paltry cooldown you can pretty much ensure that you'll have it for each wave. The only thing that's keeping it from being grossly overpowered its its lackluster area of effect but even that is larger than what you get with Lance Charge.
  
  There's nothing wrong with Throwing Attack. If anything, it still doesn't justify a weapon slot.
  
  Final Hit is very clearly overpowered, even for character's that aren't heavily developed. Improving Final Hit's damage was a terrible game design choice.
  - Dual-wielding under-powered relative to lance piercing bonuses? Buff Final Hit immensely.
  - Lance piercing under-powered relative to dual-wield Final Hit? Increase piercing's protection bypass a hundredfold.
  - Dual-wielding under-powered relative to lance piercing bonuses? Give swords piercing.
  Where-does-it-end?
• windpro wrote on 2015-02-10 23:12

  Quote from Kingofrunes;1256613:

  S/R Upgrade: One shared with Two handed Weapons (probably Red), Other New

  
  
  Has the special upgrades for the 2handed celtic weapons been clarified yet? Fairly curious about this
• abyssolar wrote on 2015-02-10 23:34
  FH is OP only when mobs don't go multi-aggro.I don't think people dare use FH in some where like Hillwen Mine or Scathach Caverns without any backup.And I also think there is a high chance that devcat is going to make new mobs go multi-aggro as crazy as they can since they want people play more cooperatively.
• Kelvas wrote on 2015-02-10 23:35

  Quote from Kaeporo;1264649:

  Nothing wrong with Lightning Rod? Realistically stronger than Meteor Strike, much more flexible and reliable than Blaze, and with its paltry cooldown you can pretty much ensure that you'll have it for each wave. The only thing that's keeping it from being grossly overpowered its its lackluster area of effect but even that is larger than what you get with Lance Charge.
  
  There's nothing wrong with Throwing Attack. If anything, it still doesn't justify a weapon slot.
  
  Final Hit is very clearly overpowered, even for character's that aren't heavily developed. Improving Final Hit's damage was a terrible game design choice.
  - Dual-wielding under-powered relative to lance piercing bonuses? Buff Final Hit immensely.
  - Lance piercing under-powered relative to dual-wield Final Hit? Increase piercing's protection bypass a hundredfold.
  - Dual-wielding under-powered relative to lance piercing bonuses? Give swords piercing.
  Where-does-it-end?

  
  
  I can definitely agree that final hit was a bit much, but it was to make dual wielding useful. Sure, wasn't the best choice or idea, but it got the job done, though poorly. It was most likely aimed at those early-mid game characters, but even still, lances will still be more useful overall late game.
  
  As for lightning rod, I'll probably doing ~19k w/o crit, which actually gives me incentive to actually use a staff. I'd normally just use a wand so I can blaze and fusion/fire bolt and have another slot opened. I need to look back at the range, but I don't think it can realistically kill an entire room like some other skills can. I'm sure you can debate why it's stronger than it should be, but it isn't grossly overpowered like you said.
• DefinitelyNotTwin wrote on 2015-02-11 00:37
  Hehe, these revamps are funny to watch tho
• Kaeporo wrote on 2015-02-11 03:15

  Quote from Kelvas;1264655:

  I can definitely agree that final hit was a bit much, but it was to make dual wielding useful. Sure, wasn't the best choice or idea, but it got the job done, though poorly. It was most likely aimed at those early-mid game characters, but even still, lances will still be more useful overall late game.

  
  
  There are two ways to make dual-wielding viable: You can either buff dual-wielding or nerf the alternatives to dual-wielding. The goal is to retain the unique features of specific gameplay tactics while ensuring even distribution across the player base.
  
  A great start would be to nerf piercing bonuses slightly while redesigning existing content to feature enemies with higher health and defense but lower protection. That serves as an indirect nerf to dual-guns and lances, alongside a direct nerf to lances. Indirect nerfs are always received better than direct nerfs and are usually the way to go.
  
  Following those changes, you can expect usage to decline in favor of something like magic. Firebolt is the obvious offender and should suffer a direct nerf. Magic should be effectively neutered by adjusting monster values to hold higher magic protection. The solution to declining magic use would be to increase the debuffs afforded through alchemy while adjusting Hydra Transmutation damage to ensure it doesn't centralize tougher content.
  
  Elemental affinity and passive defenses can be used in harder content, though visual indications should telegraph those features. Advanced Heavy Stander should be heavily restricted; afforded only to enemies like Sephirot and Girgashiy.
  
  We'll be in a good spot when people start using Barrier Spikes and dual-wield Bash is just as important as lance Smash,
• Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-02-11 03:32
  Dual Wielding alone is kind of too powerful, given that it doubles the effects of weapon masteries; +40 max sword and +60 max blunt. It's a pretty stupid thing since it breaks logic, and slapping in Dual Wield Mastery makes that even worse.
  
  Final Hit only needed a damage boost of 150% or 200%. 400% just effortlessly outdamages Smash to a massive degree.
  
  
  The fact that Lightning Rod outdamages Hail Storm and Meteor Strike is absurd, even when Hail takes so long to charge up and Meteor has a long cooldown. Lightning takes a really short time to fully cast and has a short cooldown, yet it's damage rivals a fully charged Hail.
• Kingofrunes wrote on 2015-02-11 07:55

  Quote from windpro;1264650:

  Has the special upgrades for the 2handed celtic weapons been clarified yet? Fairly curious about this

  
  
  Not by us, most of the us on the team are lazy when it comes to that kind of thing. We throw some initial info out there to give a brief overview and then leave the rest for you guys to figure out when it comes to NA :P
  
  I'll try and add it to my list of things to do as I do have all the celtic weaponry. It's just laziness that's in the way atm...and finding gems for the gem upgrades.
  
  As for opinions about the renovation update being shit, meh, I stopped caring long ago. I'm just here to give you guys the info. Not to participate in these silly arguments of balance and devcat doing what devcat does.
• windpro wrote on 2015-02-11 08:58
  The information this team posts is always well appreciated c:
  
  I can dig for little specifics like that when it comes live to NA, since I'll probably try to snag one of those axes anyways. Something about a new special upgrade effect just really sparked my interest haha
• Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-04-22 01:14

  1st Update: Does not Knock Down or Back

  
  
  https://youtu.be/aXI4BvA5i3M?t=3m34s
  
  Um... five hits of Bash are knocking back that Shadow Ghost... Three hits after knock it back again.
• tachiorz wrote on 2015-04-22 15:22
  I didn't followed this update much. I see boosted final hit, but what cons it might bring for giants, damage wise?