Trying out melee...

• Username wrote on 2010-09-02 03:19
  Eh, I recommend Windmill>Refine/Production Mastery>Combat Mastery>Smash>Ranged Attack.
  
  ranged attack for balance for higher damage weapons.
• Chillax wrote on 2010-09-02 04:02

  Quote from Richard;143616:

  Weaving is a lot cheaper and gives more DEX, too. Although it takes a while to train, you are basically gathering materials on your own and not needing to buy much or anything at all.
  
  Of course, what I've just said is what I've gathered from reading through threads here and on Guru, and I have no experience training the skill. But it really doesn't matter because refining should always be done before weaving.

  
  
  Time is money, a lot of which you lose after shearing sheep after sheep after sheep. If you were to buy all your Thin Thread Balls, Thick Thread Balls, Fine Leathers, and Finest Leathers, that would be more expensive than buying ores for Refine.
• Kaeporo wrote on 2010-09-02 04:32
  Have you all forgotten that the difficulty of ranking Refine increases alongside your dexterity total?
• Kazuni wrote on 2010-09-02 04:52

  Quote from Kaeporo;143703:

  Have you all forgotten that the difficulty of ranking Refine increases alongside your dexterity total?

  
  
  Nobody forgets that .__.
  
  It's not a big problem unless you have well over 200 base dex right after rb.
• Chillax wrote on 2010-09-02 04:54

  Quote from Kaeporo;143703:

  Have you all forgotten that the difficulty of ranking Refine increases alongside your dexterity total?

  
  
  And there are more items you can get to lower your Dex. Everyone always talks about Scarecrow enchants, but no one really mentions the -Dex prefixes.
• Cryosite wrote on 2010-09-02 06:38
  Refine is so easy that I have already started to rank it on a 3rd character, with plans to rank it on a 4th.
  
  Iron and Copper used in refine actually makes you money (before it was iron only) and silver ingots are valuable enough to also potentially earn you money.
  
  The only time you actually lose money doing refine is gold and mithril, both of which are plentiful enough from metallurgy to not be a huge concern. Refine has two routes. Top-down and Bottom-up. One is for speed, the other is for cost-saving.
• Omegatronic wrote on 2010-09-02 12:33

  Quote from Kiyobi;143404:

  How does WM = ores?

  
  
  WM training = killing critters; Critters drop gold; Gold buys ore. When I started playing I ranked WM exclusively, while spending all my gold on ore for refine training that would follow. I had saved enough to get to r7 or so. Then I ran rabbie/rabbie basic to fund the rest. I had 0 dex and rN production mastery throughout my refine training, so it was obviously cheaper for me. But, the system works out well regardless; it's just a matter of magnitude.
  
  

  Quote from Chillax;143446:

  It would be good to rank Metallurgy alongside Refine for the Dex and Stam, because who wants to gather ores after they're done with Refine and are looking for more sources of Dex? Metal Conversion to r1 at the same time might be a good idea as well, since you can be done with ores and move onto something else.

  
  
  It would be good, if r2 refine didnt require mythril fails. If you can keep your dex at or near 0 for your r2 mythrl fails, sure. If you can keep rN production mastery while doing all that Metallurgy, sure. If not, finish your r2 mythril fails first and rank metallurgy and production mastery while training Metal conversion.
  
  

  Quote from Richard;143616:

  Weaving is a lot cheaper and gives more DEX, too. Although it takes a while to train, you are basically gathering materials on your own and not needing to buy much or anything at all.

  
  
  Go to the wiki and look at r8 weaving. You are looking at about 1650 to 1700 stacks of thin thread for this rank (assuming a 99% success rate to make silk in general). Yes you can collect it all, but you would end up someplace on the other side of sanity if you planned on getting past the rank in any amount of time that wouldn't be considered "omg forever". I collected tons and tons of cobwebs for this rank and still spent over 3 million on thread for this rank alone.
  
  

  Quote from Kazuni;143728:

  It's not a big problem unless you have well over 200 base dex right after rb.

  
  
  To elaborate:
  
  123 dex can be reduced by a perfect scarecrow + rigid set, title, and the proper diet. You can get more enchant reduction, but other than stiff (if you qualify for the -dex) the rest are not particularly easy to obtain.
  
  Ranking production mastery is a bigger problem. For r2 mythril fails, rF production mastery is like having 64 dex that you can't scarecrow away. (r1 is somplace around 120 dex equivalent)
• Chillax wrote on 2010-09-02 16:32

  It would be good, if r2 refine didnt require mythril fails. If you can keep your dex at or near 0 for your r2 mythrl fails, sure. If you can keep rN production mastery while doing all that Metallurgy, sure. If not, finish your r2 mythril fails first and rank metallurgy and production mastery while training Metal conversion.

  
  
  People make Mythril fails sound harder than they really are, and I finished r2 Mythril fails with r9 Production Mastery, on a Monday (I was impatient). Metallurgy can net a lot of Unknown and Copper Ores for Metal Conversion, which kills 3 birds with one stone. I agree that Metal Conversion can be done after Refine, but I highly doubt the 11 Dex and 21 Stam from Metallurgy will hurt failures that much, which can be remedied easily for someone that has less than 150 Dex. It just seems a lot more efficient to finish Metallurgy and Refine at around the same time so you can move onto something else.
  
  

  rF production mastery is like having 64 dex that you can't scarecrow away

  
  
  Where did you get that from? Last I checked, 1% success rate=10 Dex, and rF Production Mastery gives no Dex.
• Shirayuki wrote on 2010-09-02 16:45

  Quote from Chillax;143995:

  Where did you get that from? Last I checked, 1% success rate=10 Dex, and rF Production Mastery gives no Dex.

  
  
  I thought it was 4 dex=1% on all lifeskills owo;
• EndlessDreams wrote on 2010-09-02 18:05

  Quote from Chillax;143731:

  And there are more items you can get to lower your Dex. Everyone always talks about Scarecrow enchants, but no one really mentions the -Dex prefixes.

  
  
  There is like Silver Fox and Stiff Hats. Silver Fox is very rare, and Stiff requires you to have Lightning Bolt at rA or something. Neither are easy to get and use like Scarecrow.
  
  

  Quote from Chillax;143995:

  
  
  Where did you get that from? Last I checked, 1% success rate=10 Dex, and rF Production Mastery gives no Dex.

  
  
  While Production Mastery at rF gives no dex, it still +1% success rate. The whole point of reducing dex is reducing success rate.
  1% more/less success rate isn't something anyone would easily notice though.
• Chillax wrote on 2010-09-02 19:13

  I thought it was 4 dex=1% on all lifeskills owo;

  
  
  From the wiki: "Every 10 dexterity adds +1% to life skills."
  
  

  There is like Silver Fox and Stiff Hats. Silver Fox is very rare, and Stiff requires you to have Lightning Bolt at rA or something. Neither are easy to get and use like Scarecrow.

  
  
  Well, for starters, there's Norman.
  
  

  While Production Mastery at rF gives no dex, it still +1% success rate. The whole point of reducing dex is reducing success rate.
  1% more/less success rate isn't something anyone would easily notice though.

  
  
  Yes, I assume that's obvious. I was just asking Omegatronic where he/she got the information that

  rF production mastery is like having 64 dex that you can't scarecrow away

• Omegatronic wrote on 2010-09-02 21:30
  I applied math to the refine success rate formula: Base success rate + (Dex - 60) * (Base success rate / 300) + Production Mastery Rank Bonus
  
  For r2 Mythril fails, 0 dex and rF PM is the same as 64 dex and rN PM. While 0 dex and r1 PM is the same as having someplace around 120 dex with rN PM (didn't remember the precise figure, and didn't want to redo the math and still don't)
  
  edit: I copy and pasted that from the wiki; looking at it, I don't think it was the same formula I used, as I am certain that r1 PM only adds 15% of the base success rate. which isnt shown in that formula.
  
  re-edit: disregard that edit-- was looking at the wrong base success rate when I did the math in my head. and yea, I was wrong about my certainty-- I don't refine much these days. :-D
• Chillax wrote on 2010-09-02 22:05
  It has been a while since I've refined something and I just took a cursory look at the formula, but wouldn't that formula mean that having 0 Dex and having 60 Dex makes no difference for Refining? Unless you can somehow have an actual success rate that's less than the base success rate.
• Omegatronic wrote on 2010-09-02 22:07

  Quote from Chillax;144184:

  It has been a while since I've refined something and I just took a cursory look at the formula, but wouldn't that formula mean that having 0 Dex and having 60 Dex makes no difference for Refining? Unless you can somehow have a success rate that's less than the base success rate.

  
  
  it's under the base. The base isn't the 0 dex, rN PM, non-monday number, but rather a number +20% higher.
• Mario wrote on 2010-09-03 01:35
  Windmill is the first thing you should rank up.
  If your CP is too high, use CP Reducing items and train it :D