Magic Renovation Development Announcement

• Aubog007 wrote on 2015-01-23 22:04

  Quote from Kingofrunes;1262692:

  I'll compare things to anything I want if it's to counter people's continual negativity. Not that it matters to me, soon everyone who has nothing positive to say will be added to my ignore list. Already added a couple and might I say, I'm much happier not having to read their negative opinion :whistle:
  
  Having a negative opinion is fine, but if you aren't going to highlight any of the positives and talk about the ups of an update than I have no business with you.

  
  
  I mainly correct people nowadays (since i don't play).
  
  And also, obliterating negative opinions, I hope you rephrase that, akin to something like negative attitude.
  
  EDIT: I am satiated.
• Kingofrunes wrote on 2015-01-23 22:06

  Quote from Aubog007;1262698:

  I mainly correct people nowadays (since i don't play).
  
  And also, obliterating negative opinions, I hope you rephrase that.

  
  
  The last sentence of that is what I mean exactly. I welcome people's negative opinions of an update but if they aren't going to highlight some of the good things they did (Kaeporo is an excellent example of someone who sees the pros and cons of an update instead of just the cons) then I'm not going to waste time answering their questions.
• Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-01-23 22:16

  Quote from Kingofrunes;1262699:

  The last sentence of that is what I mean exactly. I welcome people's negative opinions of an update but if they aren't going to highlight some of the good things they did (Kaeporo is an excellent example of someone who sees the pros and cons of an update instead of just the cons) then I'm not going to waste time answering their questions.

  
  
  So even after they change their minds, you're still just going to ignore them? If their questions are answered then they may have have more positive opinions of the situation at hand. If you're not going to answer their questions, who will?
• Kaeporo wrote on 2015-01-23 22:35

  Quote from Darkboy132;1262700:

  So even after they change their minds, you're still just going to ignore them? If their questions are answered then they may have have more positive opinions of the situation at hand. If you're not going to answer their questions, who will?

  
  
  I might take a stab at it if it's an interesting question. Alternatively, people could start doing their own research instead of getting spoon-fed all of the time.
  
  Numerous people have asked me if it was a good idea to make a "insert weapon here" in the past. I don't understand how people blindly do shit that takes a large amount of time and/or real world money. That's like investing heavily in an index fund without first reviewing its prospectus.
  
  On that note:
  
  It looks like the Celtic Tri-bolt wand can't cast int/adv magic.
  The druid staff has -35% mana consumption reduction.
  The new enchants are pretty ridiculous. Most of the new mats/etc drop from dungeons.
  They didn't unfuck the old magic enchants.
• Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-01-23 22:37

  Quote from Kaeporo;1262701:

  Alternatively, people could start doing their own research instead of getting spoon-fed all of the time.

  
  
  That I understand but keep in mind that Renovation is not yet in NA. I'd like to know some things early for preparation when it does come.
  
  I'd also like clarity on things as soon as possible in order to prevent future problems, rumors, debates, etc. For example, Icebolt has been claimed to mana vampire but some others say it's only a restoration with no stealing.
• Kaeporo wrote on 2015-01-23 22:54

  Quote from Darkboy132;1262702:

  That I understand but keep in mind that Renovation is not yet in NA. I'd like to know some things early for preparation when it does come.

  
  
  No shit. It's not like that stopped us or it's stopping you. We don't possess any special talents; you're on our level. All you have to do is start moving.
  
  

  Quote from Darkboy132;1262702:

  I'd also like clarity on things as soon as possible in order to prevent future problems, rumors, debates, etc. For example, Icebolt has been claimed to mana vampire but some others say it's only a restoration with no stealing.

  
  
  I've been trying to find some information to confirm whether Icebolt steals mana or simply recovers it to no avail. I don't see how that knowledge will help you prepare for anything as Icebolt itself will overkill whatever you're facing long before Icebolt can effectively silence the target...especially when at least two other skills can near-effortless do the same thing.
• Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-01-23 22:58

  Quote from Kaeporo;1262705:

  No shit. It's not like that stopped us or it's stopping you.

  
  
  Not like I can fly to Korea and get into Mabi KR... All I can pretty much do now is just ask.
  
  

  I've been trying to find some information to confirm whether Icebolt steals mana or simply recovers it to no avail. I don't see how that knowledge will help you prepare for anything as Icebolt itself will overkill whatever you're facing long before Icebolt can effectively silence the target...especially when at least two other skills can near-effortless do the same thing.

  
  
  Cuz Wiki. No really, I'd hate to see people get mislead and start up arguments and shit. Remember when people thought Exploration Mastery allowed people to find Treasure Dungeons?
• Kingofrunes wrote on 2015-01-23 22:59

  Quote from Kaeporo;1262701:

  I might take a stab at it if it's an interesting question. Alternatively, people could start doing their own research instead of getting spoon-fed all of the time.
  
  Numerous people have asked me if it was a good idea to make a "insert weapon here" in the past. I don't understand how people blindly do shit that takes a large amount of time and/or real world money. That's like investing heavily in an index fund without first reviewing its prospectus.
  
  On that note:
  
  It looks like the Celtic Tri-bolt wand can't cast int/adv magic.
  The druid staff has -35% mana consumption reduction.
  The new enchants are pretty ridiculous. Most of the new mats/etc drop from dungeons.
  They didn't unfuck the old magic enchants.

  
  
  We'll be releasing the full list of weapon upgrades and the restrictions as well as the skill rank trainings and changes after our live stream if you guys will be patient until then.
  
  As for the icebolt question we already have our answer from it looking at some pvp videos of it around on youtube. All that will be revealed in time.
  
  Patience, patience patience. Our team focuses on quality and having all the information together in one spot. It's why we haven't released our thread yet, but I assure you that it's in the works.
  
  Just because I'm ignoring some people, doesn't mean we've stopped doing our research all together you know >.>
• willcaster wrote on 2015-01-23 23:08
  We need Healing revamp. Magic was OK now is wow 60k dmg
• Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-01-23 23:12

  Quote from willcaster;1262709:

  We need Healing revamp. Magic was OK now is wow 60k dmg

  
  
  They probably consider Mage =/= Cleric. They'll probably go back to it; they promised they would return to the neglected skills in Melee Renovation.
• Fracture wrote on 2015-01-23 23:21
  I worry that some of the stuff they're introducing is gonna make older content non-viable (as far as I can tell, Royal Celtic 1H Swords outclass basically all other one-handers for dual wielding, and put me completely off of bothering to make the Divine ones literally a month or two after hearing about the Divine ones made Demonics obsolete) but other than that I like the way Renovation is going. They're fixing old stuff--not everything, sure, but a lot of things--and they're making an effort to include older content. I look forward to having something to get from dungeons other than very specific enchants or fashionogi drops.
• Johny wrote on 2015-01-23 23:35
  Lol I like this update. DevCat gave us a kame hame ha xD
  On the serious note I really don't like that Devcat decided to shorten the standby time for thunder. I like to set up combos with that standby time. Thunder>focusfist/hailstorm or something like that....but alas oh well, time to adapt. Its a good thing that Devcat shortened the cast time on most of the magic skills. It will allow for faster reaction time.
  Also in terms of mana recovery (the skill)...I think it is useful the way it stands but I think it would've been better suited as an overhaul of meditation. I'm not sure why DevCat decided to go with a new skill rather than an overhaul, however I'm going to leave it at that. They know what they're doing. It is their game after all.
• Kapra wrote on 2015-01-24 03:14

  Quote from Darkboy132;1262673:

  Milletians have infinite growth right? Then why is there this limitation? Why are there NPCs who are and will always be better than us? This isn't Vindictus, this isn't a game with a finite growth pattern.
  
  Uncapping them will strip away that limitation and also make us stronger. I'll admit one of the good things the Chapter 4/5 director did was uncap Musical Knowledge and Composing to 1, that Intelligence locked away really helped.

  
  You're assuming we are meant to be better than NPCs.
  
  I don't see how Meditaiton/Mana Shield has anything to do with giants dual wielding two handed swords or elves using final hit with rapier or humans dual wielding axes.
  
  

  Quote from DefinitelyNotTwin;1262697:

  Wait,think I remember you. Aren't you the same guy who said..umm.. you rather Spirit Weapons have their exp lowered instead of being buffed or have them removed entirely?
  

  
  What I said was I'd rather they remove spirit weapons altogether than buff them to hell. I've always been one to not care about things being overpowered but all the power creep is starting to piss me off. There is more support for (especially in foreign servers) leaving spirit weapons alone or scrapping them altogether rather than buffing them.
  

  Quote from DefinitelyNotTwin;1262697:

  
  Answer this then pls. Back in the day for mabi, I''m pretty sure every skill was capped at R6.Do you think that was poor judgement by Nexon?

  
  No. I think capped skills are a great idea. They allow you to make skills that are just right for the current state of the game, but leave room to expand for stronger versions down the line when the current cap gets too weak, without buffing the existing ranks to hell. Uncap as necessary to raise the potential of skills instead of buffing them.
  
  However, that's not what Meditation and Mana Shield needs. Meditation doesn't need more mana recovery, Meditation is overly handicapped. It needs stamina regeneration to be changed to something like 25% without a magic weapon and 50% with, instead of 0%. It needs to be less situational of a skill. And no Darkboy, Mana Recovery does not make Meditation useless, people will still be struggling with both, and we don't want a situation where people don't struggle at all. Mana Shield doesn't need an uncapping, it just needs a straightup buff (and a reforge nerf to compensate so reforged mana shield doesn't become stronger/weaker. So that reforged mana shield after the update is as strong as reforged mana shield now, after a vanilla mana shield update).
  
  And Twin, please stop trying to undermine me and act as if you don't know who I am. (To everyone else, we've known each other for six years.) Please me more mature than this be forward about your feelings. No more subliminal messaging please.
  
  

  Quote from Zeo;1262643:

  To be honest, having skills that cap at certain rank in first place was extremely stupid and I think they should uncap ALL skills to rank 1 for the sake of not being capped anymore would help make the game more clean.

  
  It's attitudes like this that piss me off and makes me not want to give a shit about writing about foreign content anymore. And similar things have nearly made two of the other members want to quit to. Please don't be so poor sighted everyone.
  
  Also Zeo, please try to understand why capped skills exist. And if you just don't want capped skills because it gets on your OCD, there are people who want more capped skills because of their OCD.
  
  

  Quote from Darkboy132;1262706:

  Not like I can fly to Korea and get into Mabi KR... All I can pretty much do now is just ask.

  
  I don't think I'm allowed to say how, but if you look there are ways to get KR accounts. All you have to do is look.
  
  The only thing separating us and others is effort and opportunity (opportunity which most people should have), we don't have any particular talents that makes us special (except maybe Teto and company).
• Kaeporo wrote on 2015-01-24 05:52

  Quote from Kapra;1262738:

  What I said was I'd rather they remove spirit weapons altogether than buff them to hell. I've always been one to not care about things being overpowered but all the power creep is starting to piss me off. There is more support for (especially in foreign servers) leaving spirit weapons alone or scrapping them altogether rather than buffing them.
  
  No. I think capped skills are a great idea. They allow you to make skills that are just right for the current state of the game, but leave room to expand for stronger versions down the line when the current cap gets too weak, without buffing the existing ranks to hell. Uncap as necessary to raise the potential of skills instead of buffing them.
  
  However, that's not what Meditation and Mana Shield needs. Meditation doesn't need more mana recovery, Meditation is overly handicapped. It needs stamina regeneration to be changed to something like 25% without a magic weapon and 50% with, instead of 0%. It needs to be less situational of a skill. And no Darkboy, Mana Recovery does not make Meditation useless, people will still be struggling with both, and we don't want a situation where people don't struggle at all. Mana Shield doesn't need an uncapping, it just needs a straightup buff (and a reforge nerf to compensate so reforged mana shield doesn't become stronger/weaker. So that reforged mana shield after the update is as strong as reforged mana shield now, after a vanilla mana shield update).
  
  And Twin, please stop trying to undermine me and act as if you don't know who I am. (To everyone else, we've known each other for six years.) Please me more mature than this be forward about your feelings. No more subliminal messaging please.
  
  It's attitudes like this that piss me off and makes me not want to give a shit about writing about foreign content anymore. And similar things have nearly made two of the other members want to quit to. Please don't be so poor sighted everyone.
  
  Also Zeo, please try to understand why capped skills exist. And if you just don't want capped skills because it gets on your OCD, there are people who want more capped skills because of their OCD.

  
  
  I would like for DevCat to buff certain aspects of spirit weapons but my ultimate goal is rewarding content and balanced gameplay. If they heavily buff spirit weapons, that's only further diminishing the resilience of enemies relative to player strength.
  
  Things which definitely could use a buff include spirit weapon awakening (cooldown removal and damage-based multipliers) and perhaps some improvement to the dex/int stats. They would have to work around wands and cylinders as those have unique challenges.
  
  The cool thing about spirit weapons is that it's ok if they outclass everything else (depending on the magnitude) because you can only ever have one at a time.
  
  -----------------------
  
  Meditation could use something aside from a reduced stamina regeneration penalty. I don't bother to activate the skill because it hinders hybrid play and its effects aren't really noticeable. Nothing in particular comes to mind (that won't inherently increase offensive worth or provide redundancy in tandem with spell walk or mana shield) so i'll leave it alone.
  
  Mana Shield is fine. A skill uncap would be viable here but it's not changing much either way. Whatever happens, they definitely shouldn't allow defense and protection to factor into damage reduction (though I would like to see Magic Defense/Protection included).
  
  

  Quote from Kapra;1262738:

  I don't think I'm allowed to say how, but if you look there are ways to get KR accounts. All you have to do is look.
  
  The only thing separating us and others is effort and opportunity (opportunity which most people should have), we don't have any particular talents that makes us special (except maybe Teto and company).

  
  
  Pretty much.
  
  I don't have access to KR Mabinogi despite actually living in South Korea. You don't need any special skills or talents to learn about upcoming information, you just have to seek it out.
• Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-01-24 07:04

  Quote from Kaeporo;1262751:

  I would like for DevCat to buff certain aspects of spirit weapons but my ultimate goal is rewarding content and balanced gameplay. If they heavily buff spirit weapons, that's only further diminishing the resilience of enemies relative to player strength.
  
  Things which definitely could use a buff include spirit weapon awakening (cooldown removal and damage-based multipliers) and perhaps some improvement to the dex/int stats. They would have to work around wands and cylinders as those have unique challenges.
  
  The cool thing about spirit weapons is that it's ok if they outclass everything else (depending on the magnitude) because you can only ever have one at a time.

  
  
  I mostly want spirit weapons to be blessable, because good god durability issues. But then there's an *ahem* pay2win option...
  
  The weapons themselves and Spirit Weapon Awakening definitely needs a massive buff though. I wouldn't mind if Special Upgrades could be applied to the weapon (a fail to rank 6 could cause a full derank back to 0 instead of destroying the weapon).
  
  Spirit Weapon, crafting, leveling and transferring, are pretty great concepts, but became overshadowed as the game went on.
  
  

  Meditation could use something aside from a reduced stamina regeneration penalty. I don't bother to activate the skill because it hinders hybrid play and its effects aren't really noticeable. Nothing in particular comes to mind (that won't inherently increase offensive worth or provide redundancy in tandem with spell walk or mana shield) so i'll leave it alone.

  
  
  In addition to reduced stamina penalty, they could either buff natural mana regeneration, since 1 point per 20 seconds in the morning and 1 point per 6.67 seconds in the night means jack shit compared to stamina's 1 point per 2.5 sec or health's 1 point per 8 seconds, or make nighttime bonus apply during daytime.
  
  

  Mana Shield is fine. A skill uncap would be viable here but it's not changing much either way. Whatever happens, they definitely shouldn't allow defense and protection to factor into damage reduction (though I would like to see Magic Defense/Protection included).

  
  
  I ran a small test and Hidden Shield Stats (Physical Defense/Protection) are still factored into Mana Shield. JP Wiki mentions that MS still factors Magic Defense.
  
  

  Pretty much.
  
  I don't have access to KR Mabinogi despite actually living in South Korea. You don't need any special skills or talents to learn about upcoming information, you just have to seek it out.

  
  
  *Pulls out magnifying glass*
  
  I spy with my little eye...