[Mabinogi KR Test] Renovation Update - Ranged Combat // 12th of Feburary, 2015

• Rixx wrote on 2015-02-08 08:38
  Talking about Archery lag, I'll snip some parts of an article I read and translate them,
  mix in a bit of my thoughts and tell you why Nexon cannot fix lag.
  
  Here's an MMORPG's standard packet/data relay framework:
  1. Input is received by client (e.g. Click X, Y coordinate on a map)
  2. Send the input data to server
  3. Check data validity (see if it's modified data or not)
  4. Apply data to server
  5. Send response from server to your client
  6. Your client draws the result (e.g. Move to X, Y coordinate)
  
  
  BUT. Nexon and DevCAT could save a lot more money by reducing the data sent to and from server.
  How? Modify the engine (the almighty Pleone) and cut down data communication between client and server.
  
  Here's what Pleone engine actually works:
  1. Input is received by client
  2. Your client draws the result first, screw the server, we don't need your opinion
  3. Repeat 1 and 2 few times
  4. Send the data to the server
  5. Check data validity, apply to server, send response from server to your client
  6. Then client checks if the data from server matches your data in step 2
  
  
  There are 2 problems with Pleone's framework:
  1. Server data overrides client data. - While it is an efficient way of preventing hacks, it also means if there are screw-ups if any packet is lost along the communication between your client and server.
  2. The repetition of step 1 and 2. - Less communication = less server usage = less cost. But it also means data from server is less reliable, as your client is updated less frequently.
  
  
  This can never be fixed.
  Never will be fixed unless they adapt Physics engine and build the game from gound up.
  
  
  Also, there is a part on CPU and lag.
  In short, that part says "In the early days of Mabinogi, CPUs were more dominant part of gaming rather than GPUs in general gaming environment."
  I don't think more explanations are needed.
  
  
  tldr; Lag cannot be fixed.
  
  
  Source: http://www.mabinogi.pe.kr/bbs/zboard.php?id=forum&page=1&sn1=&divpage=1&sn=off&ss=on&sc=on&select_arrange=headnum&desc=asc&no=944
• KillukiZaoldyeck wrote on 2015-02-08 08:56

  Quote from Kaeporo;1264441:

  If you're willing to consider a more complex solution, why not incorporate both damage scaling and accuracy?
  
  When aiming at targets from 0~50% of your maximum range, aim [%] determines damage output.
  When aiming at targets from 50~100% of your maximum range, aim [%] determines accuracy.
  
  Visual cues would indicate whether the monster was a point target, area target, or simply out of range.
  
  The mechanics make sense...at close range you can focus on point targets (weakpoints) while at longer ranges you're basically just trying to his the enemy.
  
  With this sort of system in place (or any of these really) you would still want to incorporate my other changes.

  
  
  Hmmm... soo.. something like this (sorry for the bad drawing):
  

  [Image: http://oi58.tinypic.com/1hsgic.jpg]

  
  -There are two percentages, the first one determines the max range, the second one determines the accuracy at the targeted enemy, which below 50% deals NO DAMAGE and above 50% there is a 25~0% damage penalty, this is determined by the enemy hit box and AR Rank (more far is the shot, more powerful is).
  -The line is drawn on the AIR, terrain level DOES NOT AFFECT the accuracy rate (arrows are not cars, lol).
  -The line determines visually the maximum range of where the arrow will go, damaging all enemies on its path.
  
  

  Quote from Rixx;1264442:

  -snip-

  
  
  I knew that two years ago by myself without datamining or something, lol.
• Kaeporo wrote on 2015-02-08 10:12

  Quote from KillukiZaoldyeck;1264443:

  Hmmm... soo.. something like this (sorry for the bad drawing):
  

  [Image: http://oi58.tinypic.com/1hsgic.jpg]

  
  -There are two percentages, the first one determines the max range, the second one determines the accuracy at the targeted enemy, which below 50% deals NO DAMAGE and above 50% there is a 25~0% damage penalty, this is determined by the enemy hit box and AR Rank (more far is the shot, more powerful is).
  -The line is drawn on the AIR, terrain level DOES NOT AFFECT the accuracy rate (arrows are not cars, lol).
  -The line determines visually the maximum range of where the arrow will go, damaging all enemies on its path.
  
  
  
  I knew that two years ago by myself without datamining or something, lol.

  
  
  Here are a few scenarios with the system (Player has a Spirit Ring Bow = 2,400 range).
  
  1: Player aims at target A which is at 1,500 range.
  If the player decides to shoot when the aim meter says "60%" they'll have a 60% chance to hit the target.
  
  2. Player aims at target B which is at 1,200 range.
  If the player decides to shoot when the aim meter says "60%" they'll deal 60% damage to the target.
  
  3. Target A rushes the player.
  Once it breaches the 1,200 range threshold, its current aim meter chances from "chance to hit" to "damage dealt".
  
  Targets beyond 50% of your max range will always receive 100% of your final damage but accuracy remains an issue.
  Targets within 50% of your max range will never dodge projectiles but will suffer a damage reduction instead.
  
  The other change (raising max aim distance and reducing max aim duration) limit the effectiveness of archery at point-blank range. No longer will you hold significantly greater aim speed when right on top of the enemy. Archers will fare best by utilizing the distance between themselves and the enemy, with Final Shot significantly enhancing their aim speed beyond what is capable at long range now.
• Zekkii wrote on 2015-02-08 10:36

  Quote from Kaeporo;1264444:

  Here are a few scenarios with the system (Player has a Spirit Ring Bow = 2,400 range).
  
  1: Player aims at target A which is at 1,500 range.
  If the player decides to shoot when the aim meter says "60%" they'll have a 60% chance to hit the target.
  
  2. Player aims at target B which is at 1,200 range.
  If the player decides to shoot when the aim meter says "60%" they'll deal 60% damage to the target.
  
  3. Target A rushes the player.
  Once it breaches the 1,200 range threshold, its current aim meter chances from "chance to hit" to "damage dealt".
  
  Targets beyond 50% of your max range will always receive 100% of your final damage but accuracy remains an issue.
  Targets within 50% of your max range will never dodge projectiles but will suffer a damage reduction instead.
  
  The other change (raising max aim distance and reducing max aim duration) limit the effectiveness of archery at point-blank range. No longer will you hold significantly greater aim speed when right on top of the enemy. Archers will fare best by utilizing the distance between themselves and the enemy, with Final Shot significantly enhancing their aim speed beyond what is capable at long range now.

  
  I wasn't really with you until that last paragraph, brilliant. The whole point blank archery thing was really poorly executed.
• Zeo wrote on 2015-02-08 12:18
  Just took a look at last few pages...
  
  I'm sorry... I had to laugh hard at few users who was defending giants, saying they needed it the most, when giants are already OP enough and the archery renovation basically focused on humans and giants more than the elves... even one guy tried to pull the racist card here while trying to defend the giants, ahahah.
  
  Giants already got four talents (Warrior, Knight, Fighter, and Ninja) they are best with (the two they have more benefit/advantage too) plus they're faster than humans. Now they're basically best with archery/ranged too because of the superbuffed Throwing Attack.
  
  Humans get the benefit of being able to equip most items in game, FH, AR, two best talents in term of stats (Puppetry and Gunslinger), plus the ability to use both bows and lances. Now humans get the benefit of support shot, while doing nothing about the elven archery which made humans bit more superior with the archery.
  
  Elves get the movement speed, hide, and magnum spam. Elves doesn't really have any best talents, because humans are pretty much on par with the elves in term of archery and magic. The game lore implied that elves is the best race for archery and magic, and it should be like that too. Elves get Final Shot and Mirage Missile, but both of the two skills combined are crap compared to the human's AR. Even Final Shot and Mirage Missile are crap after first phase of archery renovation. Elves shoot two arrow from normal archery attack, but it's still crap, and much slower compared to a human's normal archery attack.
  
  Like I said multiple times... hopefully the next phase of archery renovation will be a HUGE improvement. There's already lot of KR players bitching against them.
• Rixx wrote on 2015-02-08 15:50
  Hopefully they'll make human magnum shot cooldown 0.5 sec like elves.
  Give elves arrow revolver or faster range aim if they need to...
  
  It's just my ambition :P
• willcaster wrote on 2015-02-08 16:16
  Well i belive this update is human orientated, irc they have plans on improve giants and elves latter.
  i hope so! (refresh in 5 seconds)
• Zeo wrote on 2015-02-08 16:53

  Quote from Rixx;1264451:

  Hopefully they'll make human magnum shot cooldown 0.5 sec like elves.
  Give elves arrow revolver or faster range aim if they need to...
  
  It's just my ambition :P

  
  
  I'd support this, as long as elves are more beneficial to archery than humans are in some ways.
  
  edited::
  
  It's really sad because I just came back from Nexon forums and the vast majority was saying that elves are fine and that humans and giants needed more attentions.
  
  Even one guy tried to mock that most of the elf QQers haven't used the archery in first place. I myself haven't used the archery but I already can tell there's so many things wrong with archery as well... it's pretty much a common sense.
• ptscf wrote on 2015-02-08 17:19
  I've been saying for quite a while now that elves are losing their purpose. Hell, I even quit Mabinogi for a while because of the bullshit that they were pulling on elves. Prior to the last year or so, I was definitely a vocal minority on this subject though...
  
  Right when I heard that these updates were happening, I assumed Devcat was finally going to do the right thing and make elves the definitive archers and mages like they are supposed to be. But what do they do instead? Make giants even better than what they were. Giants are blatantly overpowered and have been for a very long time.
  
  It isn't the end of the update and we have been told that race issues were on the agenda too, but I would at least like to see a trace of it on this update as well. Give elves something. Anything. I don't care, make final shot friggen way of the gun for bows with 100% accurate shots, I don't care. It would be an improvement over nothing one way or the other.
• Citrusjuice wrote on 2015-02-08 18:46
  what if... elves become this dark and grotesque race that can devour bows and shoot arrows magically without a bow?Masters of range amirite ?Lel.
  Curse of the elf is actually referring to the lag
  
  Just abandon your elves or use them as a storage mule. (cries internally)
• Zeo wrote on 2015-02-08 18:51

  Quote from ptscf;1264457:

  
  
  It isn't the end of the update and we have been told that race issues were on the agenda too, but I would at least like to see a trace of it on this update as well. Give elves something. Anything. I don't care, make final shot friggen way of the gun for bows with 100% accurate shots, I don't care. It would be an improvement over nothing one way or the other.

  
  
  Making Final Shot always aim at 100% would be a huge improvement and I can see people starting to use that skill plus I want to see Final Shot deal 1.5x more damage per hit (Magnum would do 750% instead of 500% and so on).
• Jake wrote on 2015-02-08 19:08

  Quote from Zeo;1264468:

  Making Final Shot always aim at 100% would be a huge improvement and I can see people starting to use that skill plus I want to see Final Shot deal 1.5x more damage per hit (Magnum would do 750% instead of 500% and so on).

  
  
  You don't think that would be kind of ridiculous? 225k magnums at .5 second intervals
• KillukiZaoldyeck wrote on 2015-02-08 19:15

  Quote from Zeo;1264468:

  Making Final Shot always aim at 100% would be a huge improvement and I can see people starting to use that skill plus I want to see Final Shot deal 1.5x more damage per hit (Magnum would do 750% instead of 500% and so on).

  
  
  Tell this suggestion there, don't worry if someone has already suggested it, a repeated suggestions means that more players are supporting this improvement. I find this suggestion of FS really good.
  
  -FH gets an even higher attack speed.
  -WoTG grants 100% Critical Rate.
  -FS increases accuracy 100% and gives damage boost of x1.5 on all archery skills.
  
  Sounds good.
• ptscf wrote on 2015-02-08 19:16
  You could make it affect normal shots only, have a damage multiplier and or crit constantly, and last the same duration. I don't think it would excessively break the game like that. But the above poster definitely has a point.
  
  How amazing would it feel to eat through an entire quiver using final shot? The sheer satisfaction of using that many arrows to devastate a room.
• Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-02-08 19:27

  Quote from Zeo;1264468:

  Making Final Shot always aim at 100% would be a huge improvement and I can see people starting to use that skill plus I want to see Final Shot deal 1.5x more damage per hit (Magnum would do 750% instead of 500% and so on).

  
  
  No-miss Magnums with increased damage would be very overpowered though. FH and WotG are stupidly overpowered; FS does not need to go to that level, nor does Magnum need to match Firebolt's strength.
  
  

  Quote from KillukiZaoldyeck;1264471:

  Tell this suggestion there, don't worry if someone has already suggested it, a repeated suggestions means that more players are supporting this improvement. I find this suggestion of FS really good.
  
  -FH gets an even higher attack speed.
  -WoTG grants 100% Critical Rate.
  -FS increases accuracy 100% and gives damage boost of x1.5 on all archery skills.
  
  Sounds good.

  
  
  

  
  
  • FH does not give Attack Speed; that never left the test server. It gives 400% damage PER HIT.
    
  • WotG gives 100% critical (and increased stun), cooldown reset on all gun skills, and 200% attack speed.
    

  
  
  However, keep in mind that both of these are overpowered.