[Mabinogi KR Test] Renovation Update - Ranged Combat // 12th of Feburary, 2015 - Page 9 | Foreign Mabinogi Content

Quote from Kapra;1264406:
The second problem was fixed this update, but instead of fixing the real issue with Throwing Attack, they just add more power. MORE POWER! A simple fix that would solve Atlatl issues is making it equippable in the shield slot, make javelins be consumed from the inventory, and add Javelin Quivers. I mean, Two Handed Swords and Lances can already equip a shield, not to mention many other one handed skillsets like Wands and Cylinders.

I'd rather they remove Atlatls entirely, make Javelins 1x3 or 1x4, and make Throwing Attack scale with other weapons while nerfing its base damage.

If Atlatls could be equipped in tandem with another weapon, that would be like Dual Wielding and further amplify the main weapon's damage... I think. It might be difficult to code the two weapons differently.

Quote from Darkboy132;1264407:
If Atlatls could be equipped in tandem with another weapon, that would be like Dual Wielding and further amplify the main weapon's damage... I think. It might be difficult to code the two weapons differently.

Normal attacking with dual swords only calculates the damage of the weapon being used to attack, not both. It's because of lack of effort not possibility.

Oh I forgot to say this.
They added Demonic Crossbow to their Upgrade Path.
Maybe we'll get Demonic Crossbow as well as the Celtic series?

I have a better idea for aim revamp:

Aiming rate is changed to Accuracy rate.
Failure rate is removed, and the accuracy percentage affects to damage output.
The exact formula of damage is: (Damage * (100 - ((100 - Accuracy) / 2)) / 100) * Skill Multiplier
For example, your are using Magnum Shot R1, your damage is 150~200, and you shot an arrow at accuracy percentage 90%, your damage is decreased by 5%, which would be 142.5~190, then this damage is increased by 500% due MS r1, so the final damage is 676,825~902.5
- Min Damage: (150*(100-((100-90)/2))/100)*5
- Max Damage: (200*(100-((100-90)/2))/100)*5
- Result: 676.825~902,5

This would be more acceptable than keep or "reduce" the failure rate, and I find it pretty acceptable due these reasons:

Magic never misses.
Alchemy never misses, WC has a damage decreasement depending of how far the target is.
Shurikens rarely misses.
Melee never misses.
Guns never misses.
Is there something apart of Archery that MISSES!?

Quote from KillukiZaoldyeck;1264422:
I have a better idea for aim revamp

I'd love to translate that and post it somewhere.
BUT. Sadly, it's already everywhere.

Quote from Rixx;1264428:
I'd love to translate that and post it somewhere.
BUT. Sadly, it's already everywhere.

Really? Then developers are dumbasses. They clearly doesn't like archery at all.

Quote from KillukiZaoldyeck;1264430:
Really? Then developers are dumbasses. They clearly doesn't like archery at all.

The former, yes; the latter, not so much.

The accuracy mechanic helps offset the sheer distance potential of ranged attacks. It's a total non-issue for most developed players barring (Elf) Ranged Attack, which is glitched to hell and back.

An alternative solution would be to reduce the max aim duration for light/heavy skills to 3/5 from 5/8 and raise the max aim distance from 3.2m to 14m.

Quote from KillukiZaoldyeck;1264430:
Really? Then developers are dumbasses. They clearly doesn't like archery at all.

[Image: http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb58378/mabinogi/ko/images/5/55/Devcat_A.png]

Quote from Kaeporo;1264431:
The former, yes; the latter, not so much.

The accuracy mechanic helps offset the sheer distance potential of ranged attacks. It's a total non-issue for most developed players barring (Elf) Ranged Attack, which is glitched to hell and back.

An alternative solution would be to reduce the max aim duration for light/heavy skills to 3/5 from 5/8 and raise the max aim distance from 3.2m to 14m.

But that helps only to lagless people who lives in US that has a high-speed connection or lives near their headquarters, other people that has delay are still f***d up because when they see the client aiming at 99%, the server is still aiming at 80%... That's the main issue of archery, and the suggestion at least fixes the "WTF I WAS AIMING TO 100% AND THAT F** BEAR KILLED ME!! NO WAY!!". Is better do a bit less of damage than miss.

They can also do that the stun time is decreased depending of the accuracy rate and skill rank.

I'm just going to inject a semirelevant fighter question here. You know how on your screen it may say 100%, but your connection is bad so it may still be like 80% on the server even though your client is rushing? How does Focused Fist work? Does its distance work the same way as archery's accuracy, or does it trust the client?

Quote from Kapra;1264435:
I'm just going to inject a semirelevant fighter question here. You know how on your screen it may say 100%, but your connection is bad so it may still be like 80% on the server even though your client is rushing? How does Focused Fist work? Does its distance work the same way as archery's accuracy, or does it trust the client?

Archery accuracy is different than Focused Fist.
Imagine that the bear is close to you (almost "kissing you"), you are aiming at 100% and you fails the shot, this is caused not because of the distance, but because the server was still aiming at 90%, you had a "real" failure percentage of 10%. Focused fist, on the contrary, if the target is really in front of you, then you will land the hit, as much what can happen is that the damage multiplier have not been applied correctly "because for the server you didn't fully charged the skill".

Quote from KillukiZaoldyeck;1264436:
Archery accuracy is different than Focused Fist.
Imagine that the bear is close to you (almost "kissing you"), you are aiming at 100% and you fails the shot, this is caused not because of the distance, but because the server was still aiming at 90%, you had a "real" failure percentage of 10%. Focused fist, on the contrary, if the target is really in front of you, then you will land the hit, as much what can happen is that the damage multiplier have not been applied correctly "because for the server you didn't fully charged the skill".

I knew how the Archery aiming worked, my questions was if Focused Fist's charging is client sided or if its server sided like Archery. Though from what you're describing, I think the real problem with aiming is something I haven't read people talk about yet (at least on Nation in the threads I lurk).

The issue doesn't seem to be missing at 100% or damage, it's missing and then being r***d because a monster is really close to you, with the exception of magic and other ranged talents which you really should be smart enough to cancel your attack and use evasion on. (Although I guess that statement isn't fair to people who aren't close to California.) That being said, instead of keeping aiming the way it is, instead of reducing the miss rate, instead of turning it into a damage multiplier- Why not just make like, 60% and up act like 100% if they are withing x and x+300 range, 80% and up be 100% if they are within x+300 and x+600 range, etc?

Back to where I was going with the Focused Fist thing.

I always sort of saw replacing archery's accuracy with some sort of damage multiplier was a lazy way to go about things. And either way, I would still find Archery really boring. I kind of was thinking of way to make Archery more fun to me, not that it actually has a problem in that aspect, there are plenty of people who already have fun in archery- But I thought, what if instead of there being any aim percentages, Archery skills become linear attacks like Focused Fist. Where max range you can hit is still controlled by skill ranks and bow, but you know how right now your max range also effects aim rate, things like that would be translated to how fast the range bar (like in Focused Fist) fills up. Attacks would be a linear AoE and penetrate more than one enemy they pass through (except Crash Shot which is also a non-Linear AoE after it splits). So aim rate would now act as the distance of how far you can attack, and if an enemy is within range of this, chance of hitting it would be 100%. If this is too OP, make it only go as far as the enemy you target and not past it, or make it go through multiple enemies and possibly past your target but with reduced damage for every target it travels through, with the closest target yielding full damage. This would only be possible if they correct and balance the directional attacking/charging and targeting together, but they kind of did that with Lightning Rod from what I understand.

This is all assuming Archery needs some kind of major gameplay revamp to make it more fun. It doesn't, I just wish it did because I really dislike current archery, coming from an Elf. Feel free to hate me for this, I would hate it too if someone said something similar to Genesis-Close Combat or Fighter or Magic, etc.

Quote from Kapra;1264438:
-snip-

Oh, that's a really good idea too, this would be really liked by archers, because, despite that the distance will be still controlled by the server like Focused Fist, you have less percentage of fail the attack (the enemy is too far). Also, it seems more fun, I would go archer all day. Mmmm rafting....

The suggestion of pierce enemies is also good, the damage could be decreased by a % depending of the distance between the first target and the last target, the stun time might be decreased too (not too much, otherwise people might start complaining about this new feature).

EDIT: Maybe an "Hybrid system" would be better? I mean, you still need click on the target, but an arrow like Focused Fist is drawn in your feet determining the linear damage range, and the target receives no damage/stun penalty, while other monsters does. Monsters splashed doesn't aggro you.

Quote from KillukiZaoldyeck;1264439:
Oh, that's a really good idea too, this would be really liked by archers, because, despite that the distance will be still controlled by the server like Focused Fist, you have less percentage of fail the attack (the enemy is too far). Also, it seems more fun, I would go archer all day. Mmmm rafting....

The suggestion of pierce enemies is also good, the damage could be decreased by a % depending of the distance between the first target and the last target, the stun time might be decreased too (not too much, otherwise people might start complaining about this new feature).

EDIT: Maybe an "Hybrid system" would be better? I mean, you still need click on the target, but an arrow like Focused Fist is drawn in your feet determining the linear damage range, and the target receives no damage/stun penalty, while other monsters does. Monsters splashed doesn't aggro you.

That sounds decent. It's probably really balanced gameplay wise. Although, if it were real life it probably make no sense for a person accidentally hit by an arrow not intended for them to not either collapse to death or try to defend itself. But things don't always have to behave realistically to be fun/work in a game.

If you're willing to consider a more complex solution, why not incorporate both damage scaling and accuracy?

When aiming at targets from 0~50% of your maximum range, aim [%] determines damage output.
When aiming at targets from 50~100% of your maximum range, aim [%] determines accuracy.

Visual cues would indicate whether the monster was a point target, area target, or simply out of range.

The mechanics make sense...at close range you can focus on point targets (weakpoints) while at longer ranges you're basically just trying to his the enemy.

With this sort of system in place (or any of these really) you would still want to incorporate my other changes.