[Mabinogi KR Test] Renovation Update - Ranged Combat // 12th of Feburary, 2015

• Zeo wrote on 2015-04-30 21:26
  Yes, I do agree with you Esileruf... Although like I said... This archery update basically favored humans more than elves, which isn't really right because elves are supposed to be the best race with archery along with magic and they didn't do anything about magic for the elves as well.
  
  They improved mirage missile's damage but it's still crap and no one would really use it. Final shot only have bit of utility improved, but that's it. I do wish they would have done more with archery, not just elves but for humans as well, though elves should get better treatment regarding this issue. Even many KR users bitched about this upgrade and the developer basically did nothing.
• Slayerj wrote on 2015-04-30 21:53
  The only thing I have to say at this point (after a fresh re-install fixed some (far from all) of my elf range issues) is that urgent shot is a great idea that DOES help Elves that miss...but it's STILL there for humans too (obviously) and STILL increases their range further. The introduction of a new range skill for missing shots effects not just elves but humans too. We can't simply look at it and say "Oh that fixes the elves problem with missing, they should be much better now." Because that same thing, to a less extent (As I hear humans don't miss as much due to their higher aim speed), can be said for humans with the skill. I'll increase their already high ranged speed when they miss, covering up their miss in the process.
  
  They should have done three things with this update for elves. Fixed Final Shot, Increased Magnum shot and normal range attack dmg by some small margin (say 525% mag for example), and changed spider shot to be less shit and far more useful. Then they could have made these other changes and everything would have been fine.
• Twin wrote on 2015-04-30 22:19

  Quote from Froon;1273093:

  @People who think throwing attack is "OP" now, it really isn't.
  
  @People freaking out about devcat apparently catering to giants, you know that's bullshit, right? Prior to the FH buff, and giving humans superior bash to giants, things were fine. Giants had a slight advantage w/ melee damage, which is how it should be ... ? Picking a giant after the combat renovation is like purely doing so to handicap yourself, or in order to be big, if that's a thing. Fashionogi giants, anyone?
  
  
  Giants currently have weaker melee than humans, weakest range, weakest magic, weakest puppet, stronger gunner than elf, on par with human when including all buffs, strongest fighter, alchemy ?????? ninja???? strongest ninja maybe who cares? this is right up there with fighter on things that don't matter much.
  
  but because giants used to have better melee than humans, and took 1 with a vales shield while having defense loaded, this made giants "master race", and it was completely unfair to elf/human that they existed.
  
  Currently what the game looks like as far as races are concerned :
  Human - highest DPS, versatile, can do everything. can wear all clothing that is released. nice A++ master race zero downsides besides not getting a flashy transformation skill(YET).
  Elf - Best range, otherwise you're just handicapping yourself. looks cutest(opinion), can wear almost as many outfits as humans.
  Giant - had best melee before, after the combat renovation you're just handicapping yourself in general. Humans can do everything better except fighter/ninja endgame, and those two skill sets are very situational. As a giant now, you basically make for the best tank in Mabinogi. nice. Least options when it comes to character creation, least amount of clothing, can have facial hair??
  
  Besides having the best smash damage, and full swings potential to do huge amounts of damage if you spend 5k on reforges, does anyone have any solid arguments as to why people should play a giant?
  
  Devcat needs to do a race revamp, either make it purely cosmetic differences in race, or give giants an actual edge back in melee, give elves a larger edge in range. Because as stated above, with devcat giving zero downsides to being human, downsides to being both elf and giant are piling up.
  
  My post went a little off topic, but just reading the quotes like "OH DEAR GOD DEVCAT IS CATERING MORE TO GIANTS" - humans, is like ??? o k then.

  
  
  Let's be real here. When it comes to races, we're all broken from power spikes. Some races are just more broken than others. But does no-one notice how cheap mobs has to be in order to challenge us?
  
  *stares at all advanced heavy stander normal, fast MUTLITING mobs*
  [SPOILER="Really?"]
  

  [Image: http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/images/8/89/Ghast.png]

  
  
  :pissedoff:[/SPOILER]
• Rydian wrote on 2015-04-30 22:37
  So here's some clips of me trying to use Urgent Shot to kill some bears.
  
  [video=youtube;S1os7Mm3Uf0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1os7Mm3Uf0[/video]
  
  I still run into all sorts of the standard archery issues, like it switching targets instead of firing, and that thing where half the time it automatically loads up a normal ranged attack even if you're spamming a skill hotkey, and it refuses to cancel the normal attack automatically... which made Urgent Shot difficult to even load with the lag.
  
  And once it does load, you actually need to fire it off manually (and you need to fire it within a short amount of time from the miss). It's not a skill that executes upon load, so it's slower to use than you'd think it is despite the lack of needing to aim.
  
  And even when I could get it fired off, it sometimes pushed things out of my attack range, meaning the "added" time to start aiming my next shot... was not time spent aiming the next shot. It was extra time for the enemy to recover and run at me while I was unable to start aiming due to being out of range.
  
  It'll be more reliable in NA than in the vid... but I'm disappointed right now in the mechanics and it's clear to me from how the skill functions that Devcat doesn't understand the problem with archery.
• Slayerj wrote on 2015-04-30 22:38

  Quote from Twin;1273152:

  Let's be real here. When it comes to races, we're all broken from power spikes. Some races are just more broken than others. But does no-one notice how cheap mobs has to be in order to challenge us?
  
  *stares at all advanced heavy stander normal, fast MUTLITING mobs*
  [SPOILER="Really?"]
  

  [Image: http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/images/8/89/Ghast.png]

  
  
  :pissedoff:[/SPOILER]

  
  
  Oh my god yes. I'm okay if a boss or something like that has ADV heavy because it's a fucking big important boss that doesn't even look like you'd be able to push it back, let alone stun it. Meanwhile tiny ass human sized Ghasts just take everything while dishing out extremely high amounts of dmg with long and FAST agro range/speed. They're the only fucking reason that Peaca Int is 'hard'.
  
  [SPOILER="Rydian"]

  Quote from Rydian;1273155:

  So here's some clips of me trying to use Urgent Shot to kill some bears.
  
  [video=youtube;S1os7Mm3Uf0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1os7Mm3Uf0[/video]
  
  I still run into all sorts of the standard archery issues, like it switching targets instead of firing, and that thing where half the time it automatically loads up a normal ranged attack even if you're spamming a skill hotkey, and it refuses to cancel the normal attack automatically... which made Urgent Shot difficult to even load with the lag.
  
  And once it does load, you actually need to fire it off manually (and you need to fire it within a short amount of time from the miss). It's not a skill that executes upon load, so it's slower to use than you'd think it is despite the lack of needing to aim.
  
  And even when I could get it fired off, it sometimes pushed things out of my attack range, meaning the "added" time to start aiming my next shot... was not time spent aiming the next shot. It was extra time for the enemy to recover and run at me while I was unable to start aiming due to being out of range.
  
  It'll be more reliable in NA than in the vid... but I'm disappointed right now in the mechanics and it's clear to me from how the skill functions that Devcat doesn't understand the problem with archery.

  
  [/SPOILER]
  
  Wait...you have to manually fire it?! That's the WORST thing to require of this. Jesus fucking Christ are you serious right now? Granted, in NA it won't be that lagy BUT STILL, manually firing is one of Range's problems. (The other being normal attack bitching you out of other skills half the god damn time.)
  
  As for the push back out of range, you CAN actually still aim at things out of range. Once they get back in range they're at whatever % you got to while they were out of range. It's..weird and I'm not 100% sure that's even true or just some buggy graphical/technical thing.
  
  The fact that normal shot still takes priority over everything else is just stupid. Even if you have your combat options changed to not save clicks or anything like that, normal range attack will still typically try and force itself upon you. THIS is one of the main things that SHOULD have been changed.
  
  Hell, the added fact that you can't load it during the animation (I'm going to assume that this is part of the elf's small window in their animation of timing to load another normal ranged attack without delay, but that's still stupid considering what this skill is meant to do.) is just inexcusable.
  
  [SPOILER="Elf animation"]For those that don't know what I'm talking about, and this could just me with my terrible comp, but if you try and spam load and fire normal elf ranged attack, you'll notice that most of the time you must wait for the animation to end after you fire before you can load it. There is a point in their animation where if you try and load a ranged attack, you will do so without delay. I think humans have the same thing, but they seem to have a MUCH higher window for this, making it fairly easy for them to spam normal ranged attack without much thought.[/SPOILER]
• Oberynn wrote on 2015-04-30 22:41
  You can aim while the enemy is out of range. Even if the counter is 0, once the enemy enters aim range it will update. Since aiming at max range is slow, aiming outside of range may be slower so you can't always expect a high % once the enemy is in range.
• Rydian wrote on 2015-04-30 22:50

  Quote from Oberynn;1273157:

  You can aim while the enemy is out of range. Even if the counter is 0, once the enemy enters aim range it will update. Since aiming at max range is slow, aiming outside of range may be slower so you can't always expect a high % once the enemy is in range.

  I guess I should re-word that phrase as "start aiming to full" or something.
  
  An aim out of range will cap once in effective range at the run cap (90%) in most cases, whereas an aim started before the enemy movies can reach higher (95-98% before they recover if close enough).
  
  [SIZE="1"]In addition a shot that just hit 90% versus a shot that just hit 95% is more of a difference than 5%, but we've gone over that.[/SIZE]
  
  Unless there's an actual phrase for what I'm talking about that I'm not aware of.
  
  
  
  
  

  Quote from Slayerj;1273156:

  As for the push back out of range, you CAN actually still aim at things out of range. Once they get back in range they're at whatever % you got to while they were out of range. It's..weird and I'm not 100% sure that's even true or just some buggy graphical/technical thing.

  It seems to miss most of the time for me when I do that, so I don't rely on it.
  
  

  Quote from Slayerj;1273156:

  (The other being normal attack bitching you out of other skills half the god damn time.)
  [...]
  The fact that normal shot still takes priority over everything else is just stupid. Even if you have your combat options changed to not save clicks or anything like that, normal range attack will still typically try and force itself upon you. THIS is one of the main things that SHOULD have been changed.

  Here's a quick gif of this issue if nobody knows what we're talking about.
  
  

  [Image: http://i.imgur.com/DIey8re.gif]

  
  
  Notice how Magnum starts "fakeloading" between shots but is overridden by a normal attack.
  
  If you actually want to load something else in this case, you have to keep spam clicking or pressing the key until the skill you actually want loads.
  
  

  [Image: http://i.imgur.com/BPJzHbH.gif]

  
  
  And I was having this problem with Urgent Shot as well, which severely crippled the use of it as an "oh crap" situation.
• Kazusa Touma wrote on 2015-05-01 00:39
  range sucks in general, and revamp barely did shit with it.. esp elven range -. -
  
  i'm only sticking with it because i dont feel like starting all over with a human again
  
  mabi reaching end of its life anyway.. probably die within the next couple of years once peria and ToS come out
• Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-05-01 01:10

  Quote from Rydian;1273155:

  So here's some clips of me trying to use Urgent Shot to kill some bears.
  
  [video=youtube;S1os7Mm3Uf0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1os7Mm3Uf0[/video]

  
  
  So long story short, Urgent Shot is (not) a great skill? GG DevCAT, test your shit right.
• Rydian wrote on 2015-05-01 01:40
  If Urgent Shot...
  1 - Fired upon use as a single action, and
  2 - Would stun instead of push back if the enemy would be pushed out of range
  Then I think it could go a long way towards putting a bandage on range in NA.
  
  At least, it seems more plausible at this point than KR removing or nerfing the missing.
• Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-05-01 01:46
  Urgent Shot seems better off as a passive effect, and not an active skill...
• Kaeporo wrote on 2015-05-01 01:50

  Quote from Rydian;1273192:

  If Urgent Shot...
  1 - Fired upon use as a single action, and
  2 - Would stun instead of push back if the enemy would be pushed out of range
  Then I think it could go a long way towards putting a bandage on range in NA.
  
  At least, it seems more plausible at this point than KR removing or nerfing the missing.

  
  
  None of these game balance issues should have been issues in the first place. Improving the accuracy system would only take a few minutes of effort from a director with a solid vision.
  
  DevCat is pretty terrible at game design, to include balancing player assets.
• willcaster wrote on 2015-05-01 03:17
  why we ont have a skill to shoot and jump backwards while pushing our target
  Pin arrow to keep our damn target in a spot (spider shot is crap!!! huge animation gives u a small window to shoot)
  
  

  [Image: http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140421072702/finalfantasy/images/6/63/FFXIV_Repelling_Shot.png]

  
  FFxiv
  Repelling Shot
  
  Delivers an attack with a potency of 80.
  Cannot be executed while bound.
  
  Additional Effect:
  
  10-yalm backstep
• Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-05-01 03:24

  Quote from willcaster;1273202:

  Repelling Shot

  
  
  So... Bullet Slide?
• Syliara wrote on 2015-05-01 03:25

  Quote from Darkboy132;1273205:

  So... Bullet Slide?

  
  
  It's a bit better than bullet slide imo. However that skill takes into account a much more fluid combat system and a much better engine so its not exactly very easy to accomplish in mabinogi.