[Mabinogi-KR] Send your ideas to DevCat - Summer Edition!

• Bunny wrote on 2015-07-05 18:12

  Quote from Kapra;1280959:

  Aren't nebulites obtained ingame in MapleStory? (Also unlike Mabinogi, you can get cubes and other scrolls and randomized shit ingame in MapleStory. Mabi is more nx-only than MapleStory.)
  
  I don't really like the idea of Clothing Mastery, especially the parts about speed. Why would wearing a shirt all of a sudden make me walk and run faster?
  
  

  
  
  Well, it makes no sense that putting armor on makes your attack speed faster either. Ex: Chinese drag armor
  You would think you'd be slowed down significantly instead. But imo, these are only minor things that don't need any fixing.
  
  For maplestory, you can't achieve endgame status unless you pay some money or know a lot about the game to merchant right. Think of all the extra equip slots and items you have to have to reach that point that costs NX. (Including pet stats.)
  For mabinogi, you can achieve endgame status without paying much money. At the very least, there isn't a huge variation of reforges equivalent to maplestory's cubing system. And events barf reforges out on occasion too, which is nice.
• Eos wrote on 2015-07-05 18:56

  Quote from Bunny;1281002:

  Well, it makes no sense that putting armor on makes your attack speed faster either. Ex: Chinese drag armor
  You would think you'd be slowed down significantly instead. But imo, these are only minor things that don't need any fixing.

  
  
  That's a special property of the specific armor, like a built in enchantment, very different from a passive skill that makes an entire type of armor suddenly give you a speed boost for no stated reason. How do you "wear clothing more effectively"?
  
  The other passive armor skills make sense, because you actually have to learn how to wear various types of armor in an effective manner without limiting your range of motion, chafing you to the point of worsening your performance, or being put on in such a way as to create openings for your opponents or easily come undone, plus it takes experience in wearing it to become used to operating with the changes to range of motion and weight.
  
  Normal clothing has almost none of that so a skill is just silly. It'd be like requesting a tie-your-shoe skill for an added dexterity bonus. The peak of talent you can acquire in that concept is pretty low.
• Bunny wrote on 2015-07-05 19:22

  Quote from Eos;1281008:

  That's a special property of the specific armor, like a built in enchantment, very different from a passive skill that makes an entire type of armor suddenly give you a speed boost for no stated reason. How do you "wear clothing more effectively"?
  
  The other passive armor skills make sense, because you actually have to learn how to wear various types of armor in an effective manner without limiting your range of motion, chafing you to the point of worsening your performance, or being put on in such a way as to create openings for your opponents or easily come undone, plus it takes experience in wearing it to become used to operating with the changes to range of motion and weight.
  
  Normal clothing has almost none of that so a skill is just silly. It'd be like requesting a tie-your-shoe skill for an added dexterity bonus. The peak of talent you can acquire in that concept is pretty low.

  
  
  I missed what the "clothing mastery" thing was about. I thought he meant set effects rather than an actual skill lmao oops.
• Twin wrote on 2015-07-05 21:27

  Quote from Bunny;1280941:

  Or they could add an item similar to maplestory's nebulite system but for set effects. Erase all set effects on equips and get nebulites to create your own set effect. Armor with magnum/ss set effect! Think of all the possibilities..
  
  
  [S]this is a joke, but I would totally love it[/S]

  
  
  I actually remember giving a idea similar too that in post your idea along time ago. But if it already exist in Nexon form, I don't see why it's not here now o__o
  
  

  Quote from Eos;1281008:

  That's a special property of the specific armor, like a built in enchantment, very different from a passive skill that makes an entire type of armor suddenly give you a speed boost for no stated reason. How do you "wear clothing more effectively"?
  
  The other passive armor skills make sense, because you actually have to learn how to wear various types of armor in an effective manner without limiting your range of motion, chafing you to the point of worsening your performance, or being put on in such a way as to create openings for your opponents or easily come undone, plus it takes experience in wearing it to become used to operating with the changes to range of motion and weight.
  
  Normal clothing has almost none of that so a skill is just silly. It'd be like requesting a tie-your-shoe skill for an added dexterity bonus. The peak of talent you can acquire in that concept is pretty low.

  
  
  So with the logic of status effects, If I dressed up like superman in his gear, would I be op like him?:o
  
  If you want to play the realistic game, then no armor/clothing in the game would have special set effects to began with. Just because you have matching gear doesn't mean you hit harder in reality. Heavy and Light Armor Mastery wouldn't increase your defense or protection either. You can't wear more efficenly , just get quality armor tailored too your body in the right places. Being realistic, both have dex / slight speed decrease. Oooo, and you'd lose more stam from attacks and probably running! Don't forget, it'd take you 10/20mins ingame too put on your light/heavy armor o3o
  
  I'm not sure if anyone here can run or attack in this for long before passing out;
  
  http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Colossus_Heavy_Armor
  http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Thames_Plate_Armor ([S]Reminder, Plate armor[/S])
  
  It's just a fun idea about giving Clothing more use outside statues effects. Light up from realism, this game is not accurate all the time lol
  
  

  Quote from Kapra;1280959:

  
  I don't really like the idea of Clothing Mastery, especially the parts about speed. Why would wearing a shirt all of a sudden make me walk and run faster?.

  
  Well since apparently warriors can be trained to become more tanky in armor somehow past it's normal limits, then i'm sure a description could be formed to show users somehow learning too become more nimble and efficient with attacks.
  
  For ingame meaning, basically it's for people who want to make gear out of clothing , or a cheap speed-set / mobile set. Fleet Shoes may be a common thing, but Wave Sweeper sure isn't. So I see no harm in it. ([S]I'd like to test that still for balancing purposes[/S])
• Eos wrote on 2015-07-05 22:33

  Quote from Twin;1281018:

  
  So with the logic of status effects, If I dressed up like superman in his gear, would I be op like him?:o
  
  If you want to play the realistic game, then no armor/clothing in the game would have special set effects to began with. Just because you have matching gear doesn't mean you hit harder in reality.
  

  
  
  When they're specifically enchanted to work together, yes, yes, they would/do. Again, that is a property of their design.
  
  
  

  Quote from Twin;1281018:

  
  You can't wear more efficenly , just get quality armor tailored too your body in the right places.
  

  
  
  Believe me, you can. And one can not 'tailor' armor generally. A set is a set, and modifying it isn't exactly as simple as pulling out your pliers and making some tweaks.
  There's a large distinction between someone know who knows what they're doing wearing it, and any idiot off the street trying to put it on.
• Twin wrote on 2015-07-05 23:38

  Quote from Eos;1281025:

  When they're specifically enchanted to work together, yes, yes, they would/do. Again, that is a property of their design.

  Oh no, we're talking about reality now since those points were brought up against the logic of clothing armor. Matching gear in real life doesn't make you more powerful. So that concept would be tossed
  
  

  Quote from Eos;1281025:

  Believe me, you can. And one can not 'tailor' armor generally. A set is a set, and modifying it isn't exactly as simple as pulling out your pliers and making some tweaks.
  There's a large distinction between someone know who knows what they're doing wearing it, and any idiot off the street trying to put it on.

  
  
  When a blacksmith in real life creates armor from someone , he has to tailor it , or fit their correct body type. This prevented armor from being to big or small.
  
  The only realistic effect that Heavy Armor Mastery should be doing is decreasing nerfs , rather than making you more tankier. Like you can't wear clothing armor more efficiently, you shouldb't be able to wear heavy armor / light armor and suddenly get more defense and protection because you become more efficient in rank.
• Bunny wrote on 2015-07-06 01:15

  Quote from Twin;1281018:

  I actually remember giving a idea similar too that in post your idea along time ago. But if it already exist in Nexon form, I don't see why it's not here now o__o

  
  
  It was a joke idea, but I would think the reason would be due to making clothing/armor sets useless if implemented. A little too much customization there, as much as I would love it.
• Eos wrote on 2015-07-06 01:44

  Quote from Twin;1281027:

  Oh no, we're talking about reality now since those points were brought up against the logic of clothing armor. Matching gear in real life doesn't make you more powerful. So that concept would be tossed

  
  
  That's twice now you've changed the subject from what is actually being said to "reality", or your interpretation thereof.
  
  You clearly do not understand what a set is. A set has nothing to do with them matching. They match because they're a set, they're not a set because they match. The reason they're a set is because they were constructed, according to the in-game lore, aka the internal reality, as a single suit that had a natural/inherent enchantment on it. This is consistent with how all gear stats work; they're all inherent physical or magical properties of the gear. A set just has a collaborative effect that only works when the set is complete, or has enough sympathetic portions to trigger it's magic.
  
  If you want to suggest something that will be taken seriously and has a chance of getting voted towards passing on you need to at least understand enough about both the mechanics of the game and the game-world rationale, so you can suggest something that doesn't conflict horribly with the natural order of things.
  
  A far more credible version of what you're asking for would be to slow down anyone using armor instead of clothing, and add penalty reduction (but not complete negation) to the light/heavy armor mastery skills. Then you accomplish effectively the same thing, without needing a new skill. Clothes would make you walk/run faster than armor, without needing any bizarre special training that doesn't even make sense in the context of the game's world.
  
  

  Quote from Twin;1281027:

  
  When a blacksmith in real life creates armor from someone , he has to tailor it , or fit their correct body type. This prevented armor from being to big or small.

  
  
  How much of the armor in the game was created specifically for anyone in particular? Even in the periods where armor was prevalent it wasn't very often custom-made on demand for each wearer, and suits were rarely done by a single smith, it was more often given to conscripts, hand me down, or otherwise 2nd hand. And no amount of alterations ever made the armor anything approaching comfortable or easy to use. Just like you have to break in new shoes even if they were cobbled especially for you, you'd have to break in new armor constructed especially for you, and beside that the vast majority of in game armor isn't made for you, it's looted so the point is moot thrice over.
  
  We've moved off topic enough though, I find your idea poor and lacking. That's my opinion, I am entitled to it as much as you're entitled to wanting whatever nonsense you may. The voters will do the rest, I think we've exhausted all possible discourse here and can agree to disagree if you still feel the same.
• Noctuneko wrote on 2015-07-06 07:04

  Quote from ironwoman;1280786:

  Some changes are really not needed.
  
  Many items are available to be crafted. In fact, the most end game items you'd need, you have to craft them.
  
  More channels in NA is not really a valid idea considering how low of a population NA has. In fact, I'd suggest less channels and have servers merge.
  
  Hunting wild mobs still have purposes. Prime example is hunting for Thorn Lotus, farming Camo enchants, and many more. It's just that raids and certain missions/dungeons have higher tier rewards.
  
  Pets' summon duration is there so you're careful about how much time you're using your pet. It makes it so that you can't just have your single cloud out for 24/7.
  
  I really don't see what benefit the charge change could bring, since it was a skill meant to block only ranged attacks.
  
  Dual axes would be nice, but it really wouldn't bring much since there isn't anything in the dual wields besides Demonics or Pilgrim's that almost goes to par with CRK swords.
  
  Combat Elves? No. Elves were meant to be shafted in melee. In fact, in the melee renovation, if there were races that benefited a lot, it'd be Humans and Elves. No need to give them a extra skillset in areas they weren't meant to be good at.
  
  I don't know what this summoner skillset is, like the original post said, you'd need to be more specific, you're not bringing much to the table.
  
  Magic is not overpowered. I honestly think it's fine where it's at. Firebolt gets outscaled, IS is pretty horrible right now, Meteor Strike still too long of a CD and not really that impressive damage to be considered powerful, Fireball still mediocre damage at best, Thunder has ok utilities and ok damage but not really overpowered, Blaze is really only for MA use and I could go on. Only real powerful skill is Lightning Rod, but we know there are other skills that can out damage it.
  
  As for "lame gachas" it's meant to be bad RNG with only a few exceptional rewards, what did you expect? Gachas are fine, the game's about RNG anyway.

  
  
  I think you're misunderstanding most of what i listed and sounds a bit.. conformist when they could grow mabi on those few aspects so easily instead of shoving more new.. wings and wings to keep people playing the game.
  
  Hunting wild animals in general not only a select few and for fewer purposes, while they could be a wide variety of things to craft from "endgame" items to more casual like many of the outfits, items, weapons etc that are gacha only as of now or that have nearly entirely disappeared from the game, not only i but many of my friends who do life skills would love this idea implemented.
  
  Dual axes, i know of a lot of giants that would like them even if just for looks, and yes there are few, the more reason they should add more axes then.
  
  The pet time has become almost irrelevant, it doesnt makes much difference other than AoE spam in early game dungeons/missions and not many pets have them as a usable skill but as a summon skill instead. Imo it'd be nice to summon your companion without worrying about it expiring.
  
  Charge and magic.. i can assure you blaze has way more usage than just for MA.. i could go further into magic being overpowered or not but i wanna keep it short, all ill say is magic has easily the highest dps and in AoE attacks aswell compared to most skillsets, and with reforges it becomes ridiculous dmg for little cost.. a midgame mage could easily outdo a endgame ranger's magnum with lightning rod for example. Skills are extremely unbalanced and many ppl can agree on that, Ranged being at the bottom as of now with high cost low reward, and while charge is a useful skill already being usable on guns and magic bolts not only makes sense but gives all the skill sets involved more of a fair balance if you ask me.
  
  A summoner skillset, yeah i know im being vague, i had in mind a skillset that's sort of like puppets mixed with alchemy, non direct combat but summoning monsters to fight for you:[SPOILER="Details about it"] like taming but you would be able to summon any previously captured creature, the higher the rank the stronger the summons would become, from 1 - 3 depending on the creature and rank, and they would have different types and applications, defensive, aggressive, support, or manual command, basically a small group of minions that fight for you, some might be better at tanking, some at dps, some heal you periodically and shield or buff you. Still vague but im just throwing in the idea on the table if anyone wants to take it more in depth.[/SPOILER]
  
  Elves meant to be weak in melee, while giants are meant to be weak in range and magic, but clearly thats not the case range being as neglected as it is even for humans, giants can make the best out of most skillsets, on top of guns they got throwing attack which can get special up now.
  And even then, Mabi always standed out for being one of the few mmorpgs that allowed you to be anything you wanted, i think instead of straying into another typical mmo it should lean to keep that diversity and allow players to grow in that aspect regardless if you're an elf or giant. Im not saying make elves as op in melee, but just allow those elves who want to focus on melee the means to do so theres plenty of ways that could make mabi way more diverse aswell.(i.e. making elven melee weaker but faster and being able to land more hits, just giving that potential to the player of closing in to the efficiency/dmg of humans and giants if they're that set into it) Like archery, not just give it easily to them, but make it possible, allow it if earned with hard work because right now as it is it really is not possible, you literally have to spend hundreds or more to make archery or elven melee a viable option to main even early on and im sure im not the only one who thinks this way.
  
  And about gacha no ofc that's not what i expect... but it would be nice if they stopped making them so very often and waited it out for some time instead of saturating the game with them.. i dont know maybe release one every month at least and with a slight wider selection of rewards.
  [SPOILER="And"]Thats leaving aside that i think gachas are truly ruinning the game economy.. shoving op endgame gear that can't be obtained by any other means but baring with the excessive prices or having to submit to buying NX and pay2win which seems to be the case lately.. BDK bow and sword for a long time were the best there was until recently, in fact the best bow which archers NEED is still the BDK bow, but that's my opinion.[/SPOILER]
• Twin wrote on 2015-07-06 08:18

  Quote from Bunny;1281035:

  It was a joke idea, but I would think the reason would be due to making clothing/armor sets useless if implemented. A little too much customization there, as much as I would love it.

  
  Eh, something like that isn't impossible to make work while keeping original high-tier set value.
  
  

  Quote from Eos;1281039:

  That's twice now you've changed the subject from what is actually being said to "reality", or your interpretation thereof.
  
  You clearly do not understand what a set is. A set has nothing to do with them matching. They match because they're a set, they're not a set because they match. The reason they're a set is because they were constructed, according to the in-game lore, aka the internal reality, as a single suit that had a natural/inherent enchantment on it. This is consistent with how all gear stats work; they're all inherent physical or magical properties of the gear. A set just has a collaborative effect that only works when the set is complete, or has enough sympathetic portions to trigger it's magic.

  
  
  
  I know about sets and how they work. Hawk is enchanted on my fleet shoes. I also use to own a Chinese armor set before i threw that away. Just doesn't appall to me. I already have a understanding of pretty much this entire game. The amount of attack speed in which the player could obtain with that combo just slipped my mind. Already stated it could be tweeked so it could still benefit users who don't own a languhiris or Chinese armor. Or people who want it outside hawk and automatic enchant. Just make the speed bonus not stack with status speed, and make it equal to what users obtain with status speed, effectively making it cheaper Chinese Armor. Done.
  
  I just think it's funny you're ok with armor making you stronger because; lore,but not ok with same logic that could defend clothing making you faster.Can be easily supported by the lore. Could go along the lines of;
  
  [SIZE="3"]Skill description [/SIZE]
  ''Clothing Armor is for warriors who favor mobility over defense. Clothing Armor allows the warrior to be weigheted down less in comparison with actual armor. So you may focus on becoming more nimble in battle. As clothing, even the most efficient defensive precaution in this mastery will not help you much as armor, so fight smart and fast! oh and don't get hit!''
  
  That way, the already slow human isn't made slower.
  
  

  Quote from Eos;1281039:

  If you want to suggest something that will be taken seriously and has a chance of getting voted towards passing on you need to at least understand enough about both the mechanics of the game and the game-world rationale, so you can suggest something that doesn't conflict horribly with the natural order of things.

  
  
  The ''Natural Order'' of Mabi is always changing. This game has been like that for along time. Gear replace gear, KO methods replace eachother,or one falls off the of grid usefulness eventually if not relevant enough.
  
  

  Quote from Eos;1281039:

  A far more credible version of what you're asking for would be to slow down anyone using armor instead of clothing, and add penalty reduction (but not complete negation) to the light/heavy armor mastery skills. Then you accomplish effectively the same thing, without needing a new skill. Clothes would make you walk/run faster than armor, without needing any bizarre special training that doesn't even make sense in the context of the game's world

  
  
  ew,You think slowing down humans is a credible decision with this compensation? That is not a great idea. Especially in comparison to how many mobs are faster than us. Should I remind you tanking in this game isn't the best option? That doesn't reach my idea either. Some dude I don't know being slower in heavy armor doesn't make me feel faster than normal mobs.
  
  

  Quote from Eos;1281039:

  How much of the armor in the game was created specifically for anyone in particular? Even in the periods where armor was prevalent it wasn't very often custom-made on demand for each wearer, and suits were rarely done by a single smith, it was more often given to conscripts, hand me down, or otherwise 2nd hand. And no amount of alterations ever made the armor anything approaching comfortable or easy to use. Just like you have to break in new shoes even if they were cobbled especially for you, you'd have to break in new armor constructed especially for you, and beside that the vast majority of in game armor isn't made for you, it's looted so the point is moot thrice over.

  
  
  That still doesn't change the fact armor is crafted for that person in reality. If I wanna get armor, and there is one available in your size, it's common sense to take that. You're not going to pick up something too big for proper use. I consider your response on this over-reacting, since I only used the word tailor.
  
  
  

  Quote from Eos;1281039:

  We've moved off topic enough though, I find your idea poor and lacking. That's my opinion, I am entitled to it as much as you're entitled to wanting whatever nonsense you may. The voters will do the rest, I think we've exhausted all possible discourse here and can agree to disagree if you still feel the same.

  
  
  Oh it's fine. In my opinion, it doesn't really care for yours on my idea :o Something you should know about me, and fast is ; If you feel the need to insult my ideas without the proper constructive criticism, then I naturally won't care. Come with useful feed-back, or leave.
• ironwoman wrote on 2015-07-06 08:49

  Quote from Noctuneko;1281059:

  I think you're misunderstanding most of what i listed and sounds a bit.. conformist when they could grow mabi on those few aspects so easily instead of shoving more new.. wings and wings to keep people playing the game.
  
  Hunting wild animals in general not only a select few and for fewer purposes, while they could be a wide variety of things to craft from "endgame" items to more casual like many of the outfits, items, weapons etc that are gacha only as of now or that have nearly entirely disappeared from the game, not only i but many of my friends who do life skills would love this idea implemented.
  
  Dual axes, i know of a lot of giants that would like them even if just for looks, and yes there are few, the more reason they should add more axes then.
  
  The pet time has become almost irrelevant, it doesnt makes much difference other than AoE spam in early game dungeons/missions and not many pets have them as a usable skill but as a summon skill instead. Imo it'd be nice to summon your companion without worrying about it expiring.
  
  Charge and magic.. i can assure you blaze has way more usage than just for MA.. i could go further into magic being overpowered or not but i wanna keep it short, all ill say is magic has easily the highest dps and in AoE attacks aswell compared to most skillsets, and with reforges it becomes ridiculous dmg for little cost.. a midgame mage could easily outdo a endgame ranger's magnum with lightning rod for example. Skills are extremely unbalanced and many ppl can agree on that, Ranged being at the bottom as of now with high cost low reward, and while charge is a useful skill already being usable on guns and magic bolts not only makes sense but gives all the skill sets involved more of a fair balance if you ask me.
  
  A summoner skillset, yeah i know im being vague, i had in mind a skillset that's sort of like puppets mixed with alchemy, non direct combat but summoning monsters to fight for you:[SPOILER="Details about it"] like taming but you would be able to summon any previously captured creature, the higher the rank the stronger the summons would become, from 1 - 3 depending on the creature and rank, and they would have different types and applications, defensive, aggressive, support, or manual command, basically a small group of minions that fight for you, some might be better at tanking, some at dps, some heal you periodically and shield or buff you. Still vague but im just throwing in the idea on the table if anyone wants to take it more in depth.[/SPOILER]
  
  Elves meant to be weak in melee, while giants are meant to be weak in range and magic, but clearly thats not the case range being as neglected as it is even for humans, giants can make the best out of most skillsets, on top of guns they got throwing attack which can get special up now.
  And even then, Mabi always standed out for being one of the few mmorpgs that allowed you to be anything you wanted, i think instead of straying into another typical mmo it should lean to keep that diversity and allow players to grow in that aspect regardless if you're an elf or giant. Im not saying make elves as op in melee, but just allow those elves who want to focus on melee the means to do so theres plenty of ways that could make mabi way more diverse aswell.(i.e. making elven melee weaker but faster and being able to land more hits, just giving that potential to the player of closing in to the efficiency/dmg of humans and giants if they're that set into it) Like archery, not just give it easily to them, but make it possible, allow it if earned with hard work because right now as it is it really is not possible, you literally have to spend hundreds or more to make archery or elven melee a viable option to main even early on and im sure im not the only one who thinks this way.
  
  And about gacha no ofc that's not what i expect... but it would be nice if they stopped making them so very often and waited it out for some time instead of saturating the game with them.. i dont know maybe release one every month at least and with a slight wider selection of rewards.
  [SPOILER="And"]Thats leaving aside that i think gachas are truly ruinning the game economy.. shoving op endgame gear that can't be obtained by any other means but baring with the excessive prices or having to submit to buying NX and pay2win which seems to be the case lately.. BDK bow and sword for a long time were the best there was until recently, in fact the best bow which archers NEED is still the BDK bow, but that's my opinion.[/SPOILER]

  
  
  I'm sorry, but your understanding of end game gear and damage is really twisted. I'm not sure which players you're comparing, but I can give you counterexample for everything you just said.
  
  You don't think I do lots of life skills? I have a lot of them ranked to support my archery. And if we are really going to implement other fashion stuff materials to drop from wild, then the wild mob system has to get reworked significantly, because right now, even my Giant alt that is total 500 can just about kill everything out in the wild right now. You want the mats, you have to work for it, kill harder mobs, etc.
  
  As for dual axes, sure, there's looks, but in terms of functionality and balancing, it doesn't bring much to the game. You could say dual wielding Franciscas and smashing might bring more damage that dual wielding CRK and smashing because of the additional R upgrade multiplier, but again, it doesn't change the fact that CRK will still out-dps through bash and FH, and humans will still use CRK.
  
  As for pet time, you said it yourself. People don't care about the summon time and summon them briefly for the short effect. However, when pets first came out though, watching the summoning time was the main message. As this isn't the case anymore, it doesn't matter if summon time exists or not, and therefore, doesn't matter if this gets updated or not. It really won't bring anything different to the game play. Also worth noting that some pets you still have to watch for summon time, most namely gathering pets, for which I'd think it's smarter to have summon time on.
  
  Magic easily has highest DPS? Please. Elf magnum. And even human magnum can outdamage with enough damage. Blaze CAN be used for things other than MA... doesn't mean it's the best skill to use in other places. Right now, the insta clearing mobs with Blaze is done through mainly two ways: Have a puppet act 6 -> act 4 then blaze, or IS and blaze. The first option, while good for insta clearing, doesn't really have much else left for another 20 seconds. As for IS, the change made it so that the freeze is longer, as well as the bad damage. With IS method, you're essentially lowering AoE dps, which can be easily covered by end game gunners, or even end game crash shot. A midgame mage could easily outdo an endgame ranger's mag? All right, let's see if that's true. Right now end game lightning rod is considered 60k-70k crit. So let's assume 40-50k crit for lightning rod. Let's use me as an example, even though I still have some dex skills to finish, let's consider myself "end-game", although one could argue that's not true. Right now, with my Bhafel Combo, I can do 12-14k magnum no crit with regular BFO. Now add on haunting to that, which brings upto 13-16k per mag. I could add other buffs too but I'm not going to. Why? Because that's enough to out DPS lightning rod. If my magnum crits, I can hit more than 50k. And I can bring this damage up even more because I don't have magnum 20 gloves or magnum 3 accs. There, "end game" archer is outdamaging mid game mage Lightning Rod. Oh, and what's that? Lightning Rod has 15 sec cooldown? Magnum has literally 1/10 of that on human. With other buffs, I can easily out damage end game mages too. While I agree archery is a really high cost class, reward isn't as low as you might think. As for range being in the bottom, that's highly debatable. I'm not gonna argue that it's in the top, but there are couple candidates in the lower tier area, namely alchemy and fighter, which are valued worse than ranged right now, and didn't even get a buff in renovation. Magic would honestly be below range if it weren't for Lightning Rod and Firebolt. Charge is meant to be a useful skill, but it's not meant to be a skill that works as a free gap closer. Gap closers usually have counters and charge isn't an exception.
  
  As for your argument for melee elf, you can't compare that to Giant throwing attack, because throwing attack is still grossly inferior to range, and Elf melee is actually much more viable than Giant range. I mean, we have an elf who's smashing 280k. If you're choosing a race, you're making a choice, and also have to be aware there will be costs. Elf melee is no exception.
  
  As for the gachas, if you think "end game" gears are coming from gacha, oh boy... you have a looooong way to go. If you're really thinking those Oblivion Elegant shoes that are 99% of the time used as burns, or Classic peaceful gauntlets that don't last usage of 3 months average are end game, you really gotta step up your gear game. The real "op end game gears" are made by players, although reforge is still p2w. BDK sword and BDK bow being the best? PLEASE. They were never the best when they came out, and never will be. Lances have always outclassed BDK swords at early-mid game damage, and even as of now, Lances being outdated, there are many other outclassing weapons. BDK bow the best bow? Ever heard of Bhafel hunter? Celtic Royal Crossbow? Even Highlander Long Bow R6 outclasses the BDK bow. If you're going to have a discussion about range and how bad it is (I'm not gonna say it's the best or even "good", but the points you make are really questionable from a point of experienced archer), at least have a good experience about range.
• Code2008 wrote on 2015-07-06 13:36
  As of it's current model, the Dan System is a major disappointment in this game. You do all those tests against other players, fighting for the next rank only to have it not affect your character in any way, shape, or form. You get at most, a title, and the ability to unlock a special PTJ with a specific character for a meaningless enchant.
  
  I propose making changes to the Dan Advancement System in the following ways:
  
  
  

  
  
  • Unlock the Dan to the 5th Level.
    
  • Create testing for the following Skills:
    (This was created before Lightning Rod, Urgent Shot, Bash, etc.)
    [SPOILER="List of Skills"]
    - Act 1: Inciting Incident
    - Act 2: Threshold Cutter
    - Act 3: Rising Action
    - Act 6: Crisis
    - Act 7: Climactic Crash
    - Act 9: Invigorating Encore
    - Alchemy Mastery
    - Arrow Revolver
    - Assault Slash
    - Axe Mastery
    - Berserk
    - Blaze
    - Blunt Mastery
    - Bolt Mastery
    - Bow Mastery
    - Bullet Slide
    - Bullet Storm
    - Carpentry
    - Chain Mastery
    - Chain: Counter Punch
    - Charge
    - Charging Strike
    - Clay Alchemy
    - Cooking
    - Commerce Mastery
    - Composing
    - Collossus Marionette
    - Control Marionette
    - Crash Shot
    - Crossbow Mastery
    - Dischord
    - Drop Kick
    - Doppelganger
    - Dual Gun Mastery
    - Evasion (if it ever gets uncapped)
    - Explosive Kunai
    - Final Hit
    - Final Shot
    - Fireball
    - Fire Alchemy
    - Fire Mastery
    - Fishing
    - Flame Burst
    - Flash Launcher
    - Focused Fist
    - Frozen Blast
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Gold Strike
    - Grapple Shot
    - Hail Storm
    - Hillwen Engineering
    - Ice Spear
    - Ice Mastery
    - Ingredient Hunting?
    - Knuckle Mastery
    - Kunai Storm
    - Lance Charge
    - Lance Mastery
    - Lightning Mastery
    - Life Drain
    - Mirage Missile
    - Magic Mastery
    - Magic Weapon Mastery
    - Magic Craft
    - Pierrot Marionette
    - Sand Burst
    - Shockwave
    - Shooting Rush
    - Shuriken Charge
    - Shuriken Mastery
    - Stomp
    - Summon Golem
    - Support Shot
    - Sword Mastery
    - Throwing Attack
    - Thunder
    - Water Cannon
    - Way of the Gun
    - Wind Alchemy
    - Wind Blast [/SPOILER]
    
  • Create Bonuses for reaching the 1st Dan, 3rd Dan, and 5th Dan.
    

  
  
  
  By unlocking the Dan System to the 5th level, and giving bonuses (besides titles) for reaching the each Dan level, gives it an easy 5 tier reward system.
  
  Each Skillset (Combat/Range, Magic, Life, Puppet, Alchemy, Music, Ninja, and Gunslinger) would have their own bonuses, titles, and perks.
  
  
  =====Combat/Range=====
  
  [SPOILER="Combat"]1st Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the Agitated"
  Title Bonus: While wearing the Dan Prefix title, combat/range skills increased by 3%.
  Special Bonuses: None unlocked.
  
  2nd Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the Furious"
  Title Bonus: While wearing the Dan Prefix title, combat/range skills increased by 6%.
  Special Bonuses: None unlocked
  
  3rd Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the Celebrity"
  Title Bonus:: While wearing the Dan Prefix title, combat/range skills increased by 9%.
  Special Bonuses:
  

  
  
  • Secret Part Time Job
    

  
  
  4th Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the Lightning Quick"
  Title Bonus: While wearing the Dan Prefix title, combat/range skills increased by 12%.
  Special Bonuses:
  

  
  
  • Secret Part Time Job
    
  • 5% discount on repairs for combat style weapons (swords, bows, axes, hammers, armor, and shields)
    

  
  
  5th Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the Combat Grand"
  Title Bonus: While wearing the Dan Prefix title, combat/range skills increased by 15%.
  Special Bonuses:
  

  
  
  • Secret Part Time Job
    
  • 10% discount on repairs for combat style weapons (swords, bows, axes, hammers, armor, and shields)
    

  [/SPOILER]
  
  
  =====Magic=====
  
  [SPOILER="Magic"]1st Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the Wise"
  Title Bonus: While wearing the Dan Prefix title, magic skills increased by 3%.
  Special Bonuses: None unlocked.
  
  2nd Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the Knowledgeable"
  Title Bonus: While wearing the Dan Prefix title, magic skills increased by 6%.
  Special Bonuses: None unlocked
  
  3rd Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the Mysterious"
  Title Bonus: While wearing the Dan Prefix title, magic skills increased by 9%.
  Special Bonuses:
  

  
  
  • Secret Part Time Job
    

  
  
  4th Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the Mystic"
  Title Bonus: While wearing the Dan Prefix title, magic skills increased by 12%.
  Special Bonuses:
  

  
  
  • Secret Part Time Job
    
  • 5% discount on repairs for magic weapons (wands and staves)
    

  
  
  5th Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the Magic Grand"
  Title Bonus: While wearing the Dan Prefix title, magic skills increased by 15%.
  Special Bonuses:
  

  
  
  • Secret Part Time Job
    
  • 10% discount on repairs for magic weapons (wands and staves)
    

  [/SPOILER]
  
  
  =====Life=====
  
  [SPOILER="Life"]1st Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the Meticulous"
  Title Bonus: While wearing the Dan Prefix title -
  

  
  
  • +1 Product Quality (when worn with Master of Blacksmithing, Carpentry, Tailoring, Cooking, Engineering, or Magic Craft)
    
  • +5% Chance of Auto-catching Fish (when worn with Master of Fishing)
    
  • +2% Ducat Bonus (when worn with Master of Commerce)***
    

  
  Special Bonuses: None unlocked.
  
  2nd Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the Precise"
  Title Bonus: While wearing the Dan Prefix title -
  

  
  
  • +2 Product Quality (when worn with Master of Blacksmithing, Carpentry, Tailoring, Cooking, Engineering, or Magic Craft)
    
  • +10% Chance of Auto-catching Fish (when worn with Master of Fishing)
    
  • +4% Ducat Bonus (when worn with Master of Commerce)***
    

  
  Special Bonuses: None unlocked.
  
  3rd Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the _____"
  Title Bonus: While wearing the Dan Prefix title -
  

  
  
  • +3 Product Quality (when worn with Master of Blacksmithing, Carpentry, Tailoring, Cooking, Engineering, or Magic Craft)
    
  • +15% Chance of Auto-catching Fish (when worn with Master of Fishing)
    
  • +6% Ducat Bonus (when worn with Master of Commerce)***
    

  
  Special Bonuses:
  

  
  
  • Secret Part-Time Job
    

  
  
  4th Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the _____"
  Title Bonus: While wearing the Dan Prefix title -
  

  
  
  • +4 Product Quality (when worn with Master of Blacksmithing, Carpentry, Tailoring, Cooking, Engineering, or Magic Craft)
    
  • +20% Chance of Auto-catching Fish (when worn with Master of Fishing)
    
  • +8% Ducat Bonus (when worn with Master of Commerce)***
    

  
  Special Bonuses:
  

  
  
  • Secret Part-Time Job
    
  • +25% bonus on gold and EXP with regular part-time jobs (over-rides Life Talent Bonus)
    

  
  
  
  5th Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the Life Grand"
  Title Bonus: While wearing the Dan Prefix title -
  

  
  
  • +5 Product Quality (when worn with Master of Blacksmithing, Carpentry, Tailoring, Cooking, Engineering, or Magic Craft)
    
  • +25% Chance of Auto-catching Fish (when worn with Master of Fishing)
    
  • +10% Ducat Bonus (when worn with Master of Commerce)***
    

  
  Special Bonuses:
  

  
  
  • Secret Part-Time Job
    
  • +50% bonus on gold and EXP with regular part-time jobs (over-rides Life Talent Bonus)
    

  
  
  ***Note: Info on how Commerce Mastery Dans would function will be explained later.[/SPOILER]
  
  (Apparently there's a 9500 character limit??? I guess I'll make this in several Posts)
  
  IGN: Code2008
  Server: Mari
• Code2008 wrote on 2015-07-06 13:38
  (Dan System Revamp Con't)
  
  =====Alchemy=====
  
  [SPOILER="Alchemy"]1st Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the _____"
  Title Bonus: While wearing the Dan Prefix title -
  

  
  
  • +1% Synthesis/Fragmentation success (when worn with Master of Synthesis/Master of Fragmentation)
    
  • +2 Water Alchemy Damage (when worn with Master of Water Cannon or Water Alchemist)
    
  • +2 Seconds Duration (when worn with Master of Frozen Blast)
    
  • +1 Fire Alchemy Damage (when worn with Master of Flame Burst, Master of Heat Buster, or Fire Alchemist)
    
  • +2 Earth Alchemy Damage (when worn with Master of Summon Golem, Master of Sand Burst, or Clay Alchemist)
    
  • +2 Wind Alchemy Damage (when worn with Master of Wind Blast or Wind Alchemist)
    

  
  Special Bonuses: None unlocked.
  
  2nd Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the _____"
  Title Bonus: While wearing the Dan Prefix title -
  

  
  
  • +2% Synthesis/Fragmentation success (when worn with Master of Synthesis/Master of Fragmentation)
    
  • +4 Water Alchemy Damage (when worn with Master of Water Cannon or Water Alchemist)
    
  • +4 Seconds Duration (when worn with Master of Frozen Blast)
    
  • +2 Fire Alchemy Damage (when worn with Master of Flame Burst, Master of Heat Buster, or Fire Alchemist)
    
  • +4 Earth Alchemy Damage (when worn with Master of Summon Golem, Master of Sand Burst, or Clay Alchemist)
    
  • +4 Wind Alchemy Damage (when worn with Master of Wind Blast or Wind Alchemist)
    

  
  Special Bonuses: None unlocked.
  
  3rd Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the _____"
  Title Bonus: While wearing the Dan Prefix title -
  

  
  
  • +3% Synthesis/Fragmentation success (when worn with Master of Synthesis/Master of Fragmentation)
    
  • +6 Water Alchemy Damage (when worn with Master of Water Cannon or Water Alchemist)
    
  • +6 Seconds Duration (when worn with Master of Frozen Blast)
    
  • +3 Fire Alchemy Damage (when worn with Master of Flame Burst, Master of Heat Buster, or Fire Alchemist)
    
  • +6 Earth Alchemy Damage (when worn with Master of Summon Golem, Master of Sand Burst, or Clay Alchemist)
    
  • +6 Wind Alchemy Damage (when worn with Master of Wind Blast or Wind Alchemist)
    

  
  Special Bonuses:
  

  
  
  • Secret Alchemist Part-Time Job
    

  
  
  4th Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the _____"
  Title Bonus: While wearing the Dan Prefix title -
  

  
  
  • +4% Synthesis/Fragmentation success (when worn with Master of Synthesis/Master of Fragmentation)
    
  • +8 Water Alchemy Damage (when worn with Master of Water Cannon or Water Alchemist)
    
  • +8 Seconds Duration (when worn with Master of Frozen Blast)
    
  • +4 Fire Alchemy Damage (when worn with Master of Flame Burst, Master of Heat Buster, or Fire Alchemist)
    
  • +8 Earth Alchemy Damage (when worn with Master of Summon Golem, Master of Sand Burst, or Clay Alchemist)
    
  • +8 Wind Alchemy Damage (when worn with Master of Wind Blast or Wind Alchemist)
    

  
  Special Bonuses:
  

  
  
  • Secret Alchemist Part-Time Job
    
  • [Placeholder]
    

  
  
  5th Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the Alchemy Grand"
  Title Bonus: While wearing the Dan Prefix title -
  

  
  
  • +5% Synthesis/Fragmentation success (when worn with Master of Synthesis/Master of Fragmentation)
    
  • +10 Water Alchemy Damage (when worn with Master of Water Cannon or Water Alchemist)
    
  • +10 Seconds Duration (when worn with Master of Frozen Blast)
    
  • +5 Fire Alchemy Damage (when worn with Master of Flame Burst, Master of Heat Buster, or Fire Alchemist)
    
  • +10 Earth Alchemy Damage (when worn with Master of Summon Golem, Master of Sand Burst, or Clay Alchemist)
    
  • +10 Wind Alchemy Damage (when worn with Master of Wind Blast or Wind Alchemist)
    

  
  Special Bonuses:
  

  
  
  • Secret Alchemist Part-Time Job
    
  • [Placeholder]
    

  [/SPOILER]
  
  
  =====Gunslinger=====
  
  [SPOILER="Gunslinger"]1st Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the _____"
  Title Bonus: While wearing the Dan Prefix title, gunslinger skills increased by 2%.
  Special Bonuses: None unlocked.
  
  2nd Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the _____"
  Title Bonus: While wearing the Dan Prefix title, gunslinger skills increased by 4%.
  Special Bonuses: None unlocked.
  
  3rd Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the Wild-Shooter"
  Title Bonus: While wearing the Dan Prefix title, gunslinger skills increased by 6%.
  Special Bonuses:
  

  
  
  • Secret GunslingerPart-Time Job
    
  • [Placeholder]
    

  
  
  4th Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the Top-Gun"
  Title Bonus: While wearing the Dan Prefix title, gunslinger skills increased by 8%.
  Special Bonuses:
  

  
  
  • Secret Gunslinger Part-Time Job
    
  • [Placeholder]
    

  
  
  
  5th Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the Gunslinger Grand"
  Title Bonus: While wearing the Dan Prefix title, gunslinger skills increased by 10%.
  Special Bonuses:
  

  
  
  • Secret Gunslinger Part-Time Job
    
  • [Placeholder]
    

  [/SPOILER]
  
  
  =====Puppetry=====
  
  [SPOILER="Puppetry"]1st Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the _____"
  Title Bonus: While wearing the Dan Prefix title, gunslinger skills increased by 2%.
  Special Bonuses: None unlocked.
  
  2nd Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the _____"
  Title Bonus: While wearing the Dan Prefix title, gunslinger skills increased by 4%.
  Special Bonuses: None unlocked.
  
  3rd Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the _____"
  Title Bonus: While wearing the Dan Prefix title, gunslinger skills increased by 6%.
  Special Bonuses:
  

  
  
  • Secret Puppetry Part-Time Job
    
  • [Placeholder]
    

  
  
  4th Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the _____"
  Title Bonus: While wearing the Dan Prefix title, gunslinger skills increased by 8%.
  Special Bonuses:
  

  
  
  • Secret Puppetry Part-Time Job
    
  • [Placeholder]
    

  
  
  5th Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the Puppet Grand"
  Title Bonus: While wearing the Dan Prefix title, gunslinger skills increased by 10%.
  Special Bonuses:
  

  
  
  • Secret Puppetry Part-Time Job
    
  • [Placeholder]
    

  [/SPOILER]
  
  
  =====Music=====
  
  [SPOILER="Music"]1st Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the Performing"
  Title Bonus: While wearing the Dan Prefix title -
  

  
  
  • +4% Dischord Damage (when worn with Master of Dischord)
    

  
  Special Bonuses:
  

  
  
  • If 1st Dan is achieved for Composing, Master of Composing title rewarded.
    

  
  
  2nd Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the Musical"
  Title Bonus: While wearing the Dan Prefix title -
  

  
  
  • +8% Dischord Damage (when worn with Master of Dischord)
    

  
  Special Bonuses:
  
  

  
  
  • Can compose up to 1500 notes for Melody/Song, up to 1200 notes for Melody 1, up to 800 notes for Melody 2.
    

  
  
  
  3rd Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the Conducting"
  Title Bonus: While wearing the Dan Prefix title -
  

  
  
  • +12% Dischord Damage (when worn with Master of Dischord)
    

  
  Special Bonuses:
  

  
  
  • Secret Music Part-Time Job
    

  
  
  4th Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the Band"
  Title Bonus: While wearing the Dan Prefix title -
  

  
  
  • +16% Dischord Damage (when worn with Master of Dischord)
    

  
  Special Bonuses:
  

  
  
  • Secret Music Part-Time Job
    

  
  
  5th Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the Musician Grand"
  Title Bonus: While wearing the Dan Prefix title-
  

  
  
  • +20% Dischord Damage (when worn with Master of Dischord)
    
  • Ability to write Musical Scores for any Musical Knowledge Rank. (When worn with Master of Composing)
    

  
  Special Bonuses:
  

  
  
  • Secret Music Part-Time Job
    
  • If 5th Dan is achieved for Composing, Master of Musical Knowledge title is rewarded. If Musical Knowledge is not at Rank 1 at the time of the 5th Dan, they must take the Dan Test again once MK is R1 to achieve Master Title.
    

  [/SPOILER]
  
  
  =====Ninja=====
  
  [SPOILER="Ninja"]1st Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the _____"
  Title Bonus: While wearing the Dan Prefix title, ninja skills increased by 2%.
  Special Bonuses: None unlocked.
  
  2nd Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the _____"
  Title Bonus: While wearing the Dan Prefix title, ninja skills increased by 4%.
  Special Bonuses: None unlocked.
  
  3rd Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the ______"
  Title Bonus: While wearing the Dan Prefix title, ninja skills increased by 6%.
  Special Bonuses:
  

  
  
  • Secret Ninja Part-Time Job
    
  • [Placeholder]
    

  
  
  4th Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the ______"
  Title Bonus: While wearing the Dan Prefix title, Ninja skills increased by 8%.
  Special Bonuses:
  

  
  
  • Secret Ninja Part-Time Job
    
  • [Placeholder]
    

  
  
  
  5th Dan:
  Prefix Title - "the Ninja Grand"
  Title Bonus: While wearing the Dan Prefix title, ninja skills increased by 10%.
  Special Bonuses:
  

  
  
  • Secret Ninja Part-Time Job
    
  • [Placeholder]
    

  [/SPOILER]
  
  
  
  How Commerce Dan Test would work:
  
  All participants will be given a wagon and/or elephant (their choice), and 5,000 ducats. They are given 30 minutes to try and make as much ducats as possible within the allotted time. Their clothes will be stripped to the usual Dan Test Uniform, a Basic Weapon of their choice, and all speed bonuses (outside of one 5 minute 40% speed potion in their testing inventory) will be disabled.
  
  Players will be given a 2nd status (Commerce Dan) on top of their usual Commerce Status, that will prevent outside help. If a bandit spawn is triggered by a player with the Commerce Dan status, only they can target and attack the bandits that spawn. All contestants will be given 1 free channel change/re-log for disconnection issues, however the clock will continue to run.
  
  After the 30 minutes is up, all testers are warped back to the Advancement arena and places are awarded based on how many ducats they have with them at the end of the time (having goods on you will hurt you).
  
  (IGN: Code2008; Server: Mari)
• Zeo wrote on 2015-07-06 15:07
  I do like the idea of revamp for DAN system but I'd rather we get the damage (or life if it's a life skill) bonus for ranking the skills from r1 into DAN1 and so on instead of forcing us to use a title to get the bonus that benefit the skills, in my opinion.
• Code2008 wrote on 2015-07-06 15:50

  Quote from Zeo;1281070:

  I do like the idea of revamp for DAN system but I'd rather we get the damage (or life if it's a life skill) bonus for ranking the skills from r1 into DAN1 and so on instead of forcing us to use a title to get the bonus that benefit the skills, in my opinion.

  
  
  I took that into consideration when I wrote this last year. The reason for making it restricted by titles is simply to help negate power creep. However, if there is a way to make it so it's not flat out power-creep from it, then I'm all for it.