This Game Needs Change

• ＣＩＲＮＯ wrote on 2015-11-09 18:46

  Quote from Esileruf;1289709:

  ... but running AAHM with fireball/LR took almost no mana at all with inspiration...

  
  
  Now, pile that up with MS reforge Lv. 20, mana reduction, 1.5k INT, and 1.8K MP.
  
  The only reason why Inspiration is not OVERLY OP is because you can get knocked out of it.
  
  Now, had you run Enduring instead of Vivace, I am sure you won't run out of MP firebolt spamming either (Firebolt needs 6 MP < to cast for +CC4 ego, a good Enduring reforge along with night time + Meditation and book/ HEM grants around 4.5 to 5.5 MP/s regen).
  
  Technically, unless they've done some stealth fix to fix the spell speed charging formula, I don't think it is possible to go under <1s charging time for firebolt (As of yet, I might be wrong). Therefore, with that, you should be able to spam all the firebolt you want without potting or running out of MP (Technically).
  
  Inspiration is not a must for mages. It is a crutch, a huge one, that is.
  
  First comes the removal of all the MP evaporation.
  Then comes the alchemy skills that adds more MP.
  The Meditation rework that increased the regen rate by 3 times at least.
  Hundreds if not thousands of events giving out MP300/500 SE/REs.
  Then comes the music skills that adds like 500% ~ 1.2K% MP regen rate.
  
  And now? Inspiration.
  
  Either Magic has been a pretty screwed up class from the start, or they've been lowering the difficulty tier so more and more people can get into it. Whatever it is, Inspiration is not needed. It is nice to have, it is overpowered due to the fact that you regen a huge portion of your MP every 3 minutes. It's capable of removing Mana Potions from the equation for Elite SMs, MA, or even long dungeons.
  
  Sure, you still have to pot for dragons or perhaps things like raids, but everything else has literally been negated.
  
  Magic, I remind you, was originally about being prepared for the dungeon. It requires the most prep work due to the capabilities in which it has. Now, magic is just an alternative range solution with AOE.
  
  Inspiration is OP, maybe you disagree, but as someone that has been playing ever since Beta, it is OP as heck.
• Rydian wrote on 2015-11-09 19:36
  To be fair evaporation was them thinking Magic was OP and making it so you couldn't multi-class with it, then realizing they made it too expensive and annoying to use with all the repair costs and stuff piled together so they removed it because it was an artificial "class" limit and Mabi players hate those (for one reason or another).
• bob wrote on 2015-11-09 19:41
  Someone mentioned mabinogi being easier for new players. That's weird because whenever a friend asks me why mabinogi's fun or what appeals to me, i can't answer them. Every one of them plays the game for like 5 minutes, get bored and quits. Furthest one barely got past g2, played with the market enough to buy cs:go using gold and quit at like ttl 1k. Also these 1k kids with guns,puppets or archery titles make me sad. No one told them not to pick those classes... Feelsbadman.jpg
  
  

  Quote from Rydian;1289727:

  To be fair evaporation was them thinking Magic was OP and making it so you couldn't multi-class with it, then realizing they made it too expensive and annoying to use with all the repair costs and stuff piled together so they removed it because it was an artificial "class" limit and Mabi players hate those (for one reason or another).

  
  tbh i liked that feature. I grinded evaporation stones for it back in the day. Magic was easy to use (unlike those hardcore no hp wm-ers) and deals good amounts of damage. It was more like a "class for the rich" (cough archery now).
  
  Speaking of expensive classes, blah blah blah, archery. Start arguing :/
  .
• Syliara wrote on 2015-11-09 19:54
  Do not feel like quoting both of your posts as they are too big and my response is in general anyways. If you want to create an end game set based on mp usage and max mp then sure you can mitigate mp usage to be very little, however most people will not do this end game because (and I hate to be blunt about this) it isnt the best idea to do for end game. Magic is good for what it is, but it falls short of some other talents at the moment and not to mention the stats it uses for the most part (magic attack) literally only affect the skills in that talent while max damage is ALMOST universal. In the end most people will build a set meant to be more of a hybrid set and not worry about mana usage reduction or increasing their max mp because there are so many better enchants out there that help other talents while also helping their main talents. In the end the average person wont have a set designed specifically for mp usage reduction and ridiculous amounts of max mp.
  
  The thing about inspiration being OP. I disagree because in the end its no different from using a few mp pots so I can't see how its op.
• Tropa wrote on 2015-11-09 20:35

  Quote from bob;1289728:

  Speaking of expensive classes, blah blah blah, archery. Start arguing :/

  
  
  [SPOILER="alchemy pls"]

  [Image: http://puu.sh/lfzfS/f4d7ed5519.png]

  
  

  [Image: http://puu.sh/lfzmL/75c66d1b30.png]

  
  

  [Image: http://puu.sh/lfzvP/5a89f761c5.png]

  [/SPOILER]
• Esileruf wrote on 2015-11-09 20:43

  Quote from ＣＩＲＮＯ;1289720:

  [wholepost]

  
  
  I will admit its overmuch and its a horrid skill, they could have done something to assist meditation(increase it by 1.5~2mp/second) and not had this worthless idea of a skill. I do remember when mana was an issue. Except even with the events that's pretty much negated the moment you start gearing for it anyways.
  
  

  Quote from ＣＩＲＮＯ;1289720:

  Now, pile that up with MS reforge Lv. 20, mana reduction, 1.5k INT, and 1.8K MP.

  
  MS doesn't work that way since the nerf. MS20 is worthless when you reach 500 matk and have set effect+book/HEM.
  
  

  Quote from ＣＩＲＮＯ;1289720:

  Now, had you run Enduring instead of Vivace, I am sure you won't run out of MP firebolt spamming either (Firebolt needs 6 MP < to cast for +CC4 ego, a good Enduring reforge along with night time + Meditation and book/ HEM grants around 4.5 to 5.5 MP/s regen).

  
  
  Keep vivace, Put down the green circle. Voila. Enduring's mana regen is absolute garbage in comparison to how vivace works with magic. With level 16 (10 from shoes, 3 from each accessory), a 100 buff effect + 7 normal(what I'd accomplish myself with my gloomy+titled for enduring), AND, for the sake of it, level 20 meditation on wear, You'd have 3052.4% increased mana regen. (1412.4 From normal melody, 300 from book, 940 from r8 medi, 400 from medi reforge). This is 4.5786mp/s at night. Naturally with what most people have, r8 medi and a book/HEM, its 1.86/s.
  I drop fantastic chorus which boosts my mp/s to 4.86/s and use vivace and vivace reforges and have even less mana used because vivace stops the drain early without rebalancing it. Using enduring melody when you can just drop a green circle every 45s and keep your offensive buff is gimping yourself needlessly. And that 3mp/s is flat. So during the day its 3.62mp/s.
  
  Inspiration has a use despite it being broke, but its not a mystery that mana issues were removed for magic before it. Its main use is when you're firebolt spamming or using MS in high-damage situations. Otherwise its not even needed, and at times its not even enough. I'd need ~2200 with 13mp/firebolt and launching them off every second without using medi/book, and if I was using that and vivace, ~1450 mp. Which is what I'd be at with a triple book. That's your breakpoint where you can say inspiration makes everything pointless...If you don't get hit at all.
  I don't see anybody complaining that somehow stamina being plentiful is an issue. I run out of stamina after 300 straight bashes nonstop! Its a catastrophe!
  Oh wait SP 1000s and the fact that if I bashed 300 times straight chances are its dead far before that and the fact that I have .4stam/second inherently means I can probably crunch in another 20~30 bashes before truly running out if I'm going non stop.
  
  Which ends up with the fact that everything outside of end game content is a joke. Whoop de doo we've solved the mystery that's been plaguing mabi for ages. Oh wait we just got to the point of the thread. I'm joining the Buff Monsters group if there is one. I've beaten the horse to death enough.
  
  

  Quote from Syliara;1289730:

  ...it isnt the best idea to do for end game. Magic is good for what it is, but it falls short of some other talents at the moment and not to mention the stats it uses for the most part (magic attack) literally only affect the skills in that talent while max damage is ALMOST universal. In the end most people will build a set meant to be more of a hybrid set and not worry about mana usage reduction or increasing their max mp because there are so many better enchants out there that help other talents while also helping their main talents.

  
  
  My damage set coincides with my hebona set. I'm losing a grand total of two suffixes(accs) and the potential to use Anything but a karis, damage reforges on accs(minimal)/shoes(only SR lost). Matk enchants are worthless for anybody who's not SRS HARDCORE about it.
• Syliara wrote on 2015-11-09 21:44

  Quote from Esileruf;1289736:

  My damage set coincides with my hebona set. I'm losing a grand total of two suffixes(accs) and the potential to use Anything but a karis, damage reforges on accs(minimal)/shoes(only SR lost). Matk enchants are worthless for anybody who's not SRS HARDCORE about it.

  
  
  I'm not really understanding ur point/stance in relation to my quote so if you could explain further I would appreciate that.
  
  Also, I want to point out that while vivace is nice for magic casting speed and is great for magic uses it isnt party play efficient in MOST situations where BFO would be the primary buff used. This also means fantastic chorus would not gain the regen bonus that would help with mp regen.
• Esileruf wrote on 2015-11-09 22:15

  Quote from Syliara;1289739:

  I'm not really understanding ur point/stance in relation to my quote so if you could explain further I would appreciate that.
  
  Also, I want to point out that while vivace is nice for magic casting speed and is great for magic uses it isnt party play efficient in MOST situations where BFO would be the primary buff used. This also means fantastic chorus would not gain the regen bonus that would help with mp regen.

  
  
  Most of the time anybody who is enchanting their gear and isn't pure magic will go the max damage route. Implementing vivace to boost my firebolt differently as with using both hebona and mana reduction set doesn't reduce much damage. This is the cost of making my vivace strong enough to match bfo.
  
  Also yes, bfo is better than vivace in nearly all situations. However, soloing and the odd time that there's just mages is what the reforges are for. You can always just drop a green circle using loading and quickly canceling harvest song. It'll be rare if that ever overwrites bfo or vivace. Unless you somehow have harvest song loading time decrease.
• koishi-sempai wrote on 2015-11-09 22:42

  Quote from Rydian;1289727:

  To be fair evaporation was them thinking Magic was OP and making it so you couldn't multi-class with it, then realizing they made it too expensive and annoying to use with all the repair costs and stuff piled together so they removed it because it was an artificial "class" limit and Mabi players hate those (for one reason or another).

  
  
  Magic WAS op back in the day, which is why they gated its power so much (when breaking 1k on a single target was pro, a player with R1 thunder/fireball and crit could break 5k on multiple targets, and R1 Ice Spear cleared an entire dungeon room per use). As late as G12 almost pure mages were soloing shit like Peaca Int with <10 deaths with mostly magic (zyrus <3). That's why you had to prep so hard and farm so much MP. But once melee and range got to the point where they could deal out comparable damage in 10% of the time and effort, gating Magic's power made no sense, and it took them WAY too long to fix it.
  
  Also Vivace is kind of average (especially given diminishing returns the more cast time reduction you stack from Int/Masteries/Casting Speed reforge) unless you're soloing as a mage. And it's up for debate whether BFO or Vivace is better for a mage solo run (because Firebolt is a huge part of any mage solo run)
  
  I think Vivace knocks like 0.3 of a second off my fireball castst?
  
  

  Which ends up with the fact that everything outside of end game content is a joke.

  
  
  For endgame players.
• Twin wrote on 2015-11-10 03:48

  Quote from Tropa;1289739:

  I agree on some of these, but sadly, this game is beyond disrepair, which is sad because I used to love this game.
  

  
  
  Mabi can be repaired still lol but the issue is mainly wat Kaeporo said ;
  
  

  Quote from Kaeporo;1289687:

  Mabinogi fucking sucks as a direct result of DevCat's complete lack of vision. I need meaningful things to do. Grinding wholly repetitive tasks for a chance at meaningless loot that can't be applied to anything isn't enough.

  
  
  Other reason is controversy on HOW to exactly fix it.
• Esileruf wrote on 2015-11-10 04:17

  Quote from Twin;1289754:

  
  Other reason is controversy on HOW to exactly fix it.

  
  
  Not to mention the dual reason of why its gone to garbage, not only is devcat not really doing much as it looks, they're also being given shorter and shorter deadlines it looks.
• Drizzit wrote on 2015-11-10 14:59

  Quote from Qnjo;1289645:

  While some changes would be much appreciated, what this game needs the most is more players that don't complain so much.

  
  
  My god, this.
• TheDarkPaladin wrote on 2015-11-10 15:12
  unfortunately getting new players gets harder the older a game gets generally, and there are some things that are valid complaints too
• bob wrote on 2015-11-10 15:20

  Quote from Tropa;1289735:

  [SPOILER="alchemy pls"]

  [Image: http://puu.sh/lfzfS/f4d7ed5519.png]

  
  

  [Image: http://puu.sh/lfzmL/75c66d1b30.png]

  
  

  [Image: http://puu.sh/lfzvP/5a89f761c5.png]

  [/SPOILER]

  
  please, alchemy is like dungeons
  it got power creeped and there's no actual scaling for it to prevent this.
  It's not worth investing into alchemy.
  Blame devcat.
  
  Sent from my XT1040 using Tapatalk
• Tropa wrote on 2015-11-11 04:54

  Quote from bob;1289778:

  please, alchemy is like dungeons
  it got power creeped and there's no actual scaling for it to prevent this.
  It's not worth investing into alchemy.
  Blame devcat.
  
  Sent from my XT1040 using Tapatalk

  
  
  Reminds me of this game's "content", it stops being challenging early on and there's no actual reward.
  
  Blame devcat.