Debate: Goku vs. Superman

• Cucurbita wrote on 2010-10-24 23:14

  Quote from Tatsu;192928:

  Why would Goku exploit someone's weakness anyway?
  
  Can't say who'd win, simply because we haven't seen Superman at his best yet.
  
  Anyway, this argument is silly! Clearly, we should arguing if Tohno/Ryougi Shiki can kill a Servant if it wasn't for the immunity to death rule, or who'd win in a fight between Emiya Shirou and Tohno Shiki

  
  
  Goku would only exploit someone's weakness if they were a threat to others.
  Otherwise he's always all for a fair fight, and if he loses he won't mind training until he wins.
• Magenera wrote on 2010-10-24 23:29
  One phrase: BLue Sundipped Superman.
  Enough said.
  
  

  Much faster than the speed of light.
  
  It takes light 8 minutes and 19 second to reach earth from the Sun. That means it would take Superman that long to reach the Sun from here, assuming he travels that fast. Goku could be there instantly, that's an entire 8 minutes and 19 seconds faster. And more than that, he could somehow stretch the time to span five 30 minute episodes. I'd like to see Superman do that.
  
  Goku definitely wins on the speed game.

  
  
  Also I said he can move faster than the speed of light I never said how fast, considering that I said he can send Goku to the source wall, which is at the end of the damn universe, and comeback at east hemisphere nightfall. This in the time of evening. The same time in which he did so with Darkseid, that was after the fact that Superman flown him towards the sun, and commence beating him. So no Superman can move a lot faster. If you want my source go check out Superman Batman cross over.
• Cucurbita wrote on 2010-10-24 23:42
  THEY'RE BOTH OP
• Magenera wrote on 2010-10-24 23:49
  Yes they are both are. This is by far the funnest debate ever. EVVVVVVVVVVVVAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:2thumb:
  I wonder if we can beat the 1213 pages on this fight alone.:XD:
• Chockeh wrote on 2010-10-24 23:53
  I wonder if Superman can hold onto Goku long enough to get to that so called Source Wall.
• Kayate wrote on 2010-10-25 00:23

  Quote from YoungChockeh;193009:

  I wonder if Superman can hold onto Goku long enough to get to that so called Source Wall.

  
  
  Goku could just use an afterimage before superman gets his hands on him.
• Magenera wrote on 2010-10-25 00:30

  Quote from YoungChockeh;193009:

  I wonder if Superman can hold onto Goku long enough to get to that so called Source Wall.

  
  Considering all the time goku opponents had held on to him, and the fact that Goku wouldn't know about the Source wall, highly doubt it.
  
  Also fun facts on supermanfeats:
  

  OK, now you guys made me break out the Superman feats. Impressive lists, guest2, but not impressive enough compared to Supes.
  
  I copied these years ago from Superhero Chat (THE greatest comicbook message board of all time) and the Alvaro Superman Message Board. Some feats may be repeated. So, without further ado:
  
  And now...Superman:
  
  1) Superman #54: survived, without any injury at all, a ground zero atomic bomb
  
  2) Superman for all Seasons: Survived, without any injury whatsoever, a Russian thermonuclear warhead (from a submarine) at point blank range. Smiled afterwards. All Russian nukes from submarines are multi-megaton warheads.
  
  3) Superman #40: Survived, at ground zero (the bomb was in his hands) a 40 megaton thermonuclear device.
  
  4) In Superman/Doomsday: Hunter/Prey, Superman survived, at ground zero, a blast equal to ìa million nuclear bombsî (according to the energy being Waverider). Superman did not suffer any physical damage, though was temporarily stunned and stated that he felt concussed. He then got up and boxed a little more with Doomsday, who also survived the blast.
  
  5) Adventures of Superman #478. As part of the Time and Time Again storyline. Supermanís body was affected by chronal displacement such that massive explosions would displace him through time. His invulnerability was the reason why the Time Trapper selected him for this- only one such as he such survive the catastrophic explosions involved in this method of time travel. Some have argued that Superman did not absorb the full brunt of these blasts but only a threshold amount that would propel him through time. This is blatantly contradicted by the fact explosions of different magnitudes hurled him through time by different amounts; also the more massive explosions (see the Sun-Eater example) caused him greater distress, hence he WAS taking the full force of the blasts (or else all the explosions would have affected him equally.)
  As part of this storyline, in Adventures #478, Superman survived- without so much as batting an eye- the nuclear destruction of the entire moon in the year 2995. He was actually within the moon itself when it was obliterated. He did not suffer any harm and did not lose consciousness. The explosion did not even register for him. Note also that two Daxamites, not affected by chronal energies, also survived. Daxamites are the genetic cousins to Kryptonians, and possess virtually identical powers under a yellow sun. Despite unsubstantiated claims that Daxamites are slightly ìmore powerfulî than Kryptonians, Superman was able to soundly and convincing defeat the supposedly ìmore powerfulî Daxamite Lar Gand in a fight in which the odds were stacked against Superman (he was deprived of oxygen before the fight and fighting an Eclipso-possessed Lar Gand).
  
  6) Also part of Time and Time Again, in Adventures of Superman #477, Superman survived an exploding sun eater, from within the nucleus of the sun eater. A sun eater is an enormous gaseous cloud that literally eats both the energy and mass of whole stars.
  Let my friend Captain Kal explain the physics of it:
  Re: Sun-Eater
  A supernova is the total fusion of an entire star's mass over a period of months. Fusing an entire star's mass all at once should be at least supernova level. Additionally, the Sun-Eater has eaten many stars and IIRC has consumed entire galaxies, so I'd put the Sun-Eater detonation at much greater than a mere supernova, especially since Wildfire's anti-energy was also involved and interacting in that explosion.
  Although it should be noted that it was only the core of the sun eater that was exploded; however, the explosion was sufficient to blast the rest of the massive sun eater apart into the vastness of space, thus destroying it. Likely at least a supernova-level event anyway. Following the explosion, (Action Comics #664) Supermanís body is hurled across ìhundreds of light years of spaceî and crash-lands on Earth. He is unconscious but physically completely unharmed. He wakes up a day later and, after a brief moment of disorientation, regains his balance and is none the worse the wear.
  
  7)Superman #3: survives the dreaded fire pits of Apokolips without any physical injury, but suffers a spell of amnesia.
  
  8) Adventures of Superman #480; Superman: Last God of Krypton one shot; Superman Man of Steel #50: Superman survives immersion in the outer layers of the sun. He also escapes from the sunís gravity. In the first reference, survival and escape is quite difficult. In the next two, he survives easily, gets a power boost from the sun, and very easily escapes the sunís immense gravitational pull (more than 99% of the mass of the solar system is in the sun).
  
  9) Action Comics # 782; Superman Man of Steel #64: very easily survives the core of the sun without any injury whatsoever. His powers are increased by the immersion in the sun. Each moment in the core of the sun, 600 billion tons of hydrogen is fused. Energy equal to literally trillions and trillions of hydrogen bombs are liberated. Since Superman does not blacken the sun by immersion in it, he must only be absorbing a portion of these energies. The rest of the energies do not destroy him because of his invulnerability. In addition to the energy liberated, the pressure at the core of the sun is equal to 250 BILLION Earth atmospheres. Such extreme pressure- literally, matter destroying pressure- does not harm the man from Krypton. In addition, he effortlessly escapes from the immense gravity at the core of the sun (gravity intense enough to fuse billions of tons of hydrogen every second). Supermanís escape from this gravity is effortless and virtually instantaneous as well- an amazing feat of raw flight power.
  
  10) JLA #41, the conclusion of the World War III story: Superman absorbs the energy of the Mageddon Warhead, a device stated to be capable of vaporizing HALF A GALAXY(and was implied to be able to destroy all of Creation). This is Supermanís most extreme feat of energy absorption, and his body alone did it (no magic hammer needed). Although visibly quite distressed by the absorption, Superman suffers no harm whatsoever, and even smiles afterwards.
  
  11) Actions Comics #586: His Omega Beams exhausted, Darkseid attacks Superman with an energy beam attuned to his ìprecise molecular structureî, intended to destroy Superman. The blast causes him pain but absolutely no physical damage at all; Superman proceeds to beat down Darkseid and defeat him soundly ( a fact admitted to by Darkseid.)
  
  12) Adventures Of Superman #595: This time its the real thing as Darkseid unleashes the full power of his disintegrating Omega Beams (one of the most feared forces in the DCU) upon Superman with the stated intention of killing him. Superman withstands repeated full force blasts at point blank range, and shrugs them off without any harm or pain whatsoever. Note that besides Darkseid himself, only two others have withstood the beams other than Superman: Doomsday and the Cyborg (whose body was made from Supermanís own Kryptonian DNA).
  
  13)After his fight with Lobo, and lost in space, Superman survives passage through a cosmic wormhole- a catastrophic, matter destroying force, to say the least. Note that this was during his post-death power-up. Trying to track down the issue number for this, be patient.
  
  14)Also part of his post death power up, in Superman Man of Steel #30, Superman survives a so called ìforce twelve disintegration beamî fired from a ship the size of a small moon with absolutely no effect at all. BTW, Lobo also survived.
  
  15) Though not exactly canon: in the Superman/Fantastic Four crossover, Superman shrugs off, ìlike it was nothingî, a laser beam (designed by Reed Richards) capable of cutting through adamantium.
  
  16)Withstands various particle beams from a planet-powered Cyborg, one of which was said to be sufficient to level a city. See Superman Man of Steel #52.
  17) In Kingdom Come, Superman was assaulted by Captain Marvel with lightning. Many see this as Captain Marvel ìalmost killing Superman.î, as well as evidence of Supermanís extreme vulnerability to magic. An unbiased look at this event reveals otherwise. First of all, the lightning emanates from Shazam, one of the higher cosmic powers in the DCU. It is Marvelís very power source and in fact conveys the power of Zeus, another higher power in the DCU. As an example of its power, Billy used it to crack open the Gulag in Kingdom Come. Said Gulag was designed by Scott Free, master escape artist, and constructed using New Genesis technology, which in past issues has been used to travel into the sunís core. In addition the Gulag was constructed to contain literally hundreds of powerful and dangerous metahumans. Marvel busted open this Gulag with his magic lightning.
  
  Superman withstood at least four (that we saw) of these bolts with the power of ZEUS. He likely withstood a lot more than 4 because it is implied that Marvel was reigning lightning down on Superman off-panel the whole time that the story cuts away to Batman and Wonder Womanís exchange. Such an assault would have easily killed virtually anyone else in the DCU. Far from being dead, however, Superman required only a couple of seconds pause to gather his wits, used his own superspeed to match the speed of Mercury, and pull Marvel back into the lightning. (And thus win the fight, a often overlooked fact). A battering like that and still he could match the speed of Mercury. From there on, although obviously bloodied, Superman appears fairly intact. In fact, he is still conscious (actually far from out of it), talking comfortably and coherently as he erases the years of brainwashing from Billy, and doesnít even have the gravelly, uneven word bubbles used to signify serious injuries in comics. He also survives the nuclear explosion, albeit from hundreds of feet away, yet it was still sufficient to kill almost every other metahuman not protected by the Green Lantern.
  As an aside, note that in DC Vs Marvel, Thor absorbed a single hit of Billyís lightning to the hammer- not even a direct hit- and needed a ìlong pauseî to recover. Contrast Thorís long pause after just a single indirect hit with Supermanís couple of seconds to gather his wits after repeated direct hits to the torso. It should be noted however that DC vs Marvel is hardly canon and quite a lot of screwy nonsense was going on in that.
  
  18)In JLA: Primeval, the League battles Disciple, empowered by the ancestral magical gods. Zauriel, literally an angel from heaven, finds Disciples divinities to be impossibly ancient, even older and more powerful than his own divinities. In fact, Disciple laughs off Zaurielís attack. Wonder Woman, herself empowered by the Greek Gods, similarly found Disciples ancestral divinities impossibly powerful. And this was BEFORE the Elder Gods gave Disciple their full power. At that point, every Justice Leaguer, including the magical beings Wonder Woman and Zauriel, were completely incapacitated by Discipleís magical blast. Only Superman was able to walk through the blast unfazed (Is that...the best...youíve got?î), actually made a coherent speech while overcoming the ancestral god-power, overpowered Disciple, and knocked the scepter from his hand. His power exhausted, Disciple was defeated single handedly by Superman.
  
  19)At the last page of Superman Man of Steel #15, Superman is assaulted from all angles by hundreds of magical demons, and seemingly overcome. However, just moments later in Superman #71, Superman resumes his attack on Blaze (a powerful demon goddess) in her own dimension, in which reality bends to her will. Superman overcomes a magical blast meant to incapicatate him (Blaze: ìyou can still move?î) and physically restrains Blaze long enough for his ally Satannus to free the Daily Planet staffers from Blazeís dimension. This was the first time Blaze was defeated in her own realm.
  
  20)Superman fought in and survived the 1000 Year War in Valhalla (time was operating strangely in this magical dimension). Magic no doubt abounded here. There were many casualties amongst the gods including the DC version of Thor (though it hardly reflects on the Marvel version). See Action Comics #761.
  
  21)Action Comics #587: Attacked by magical ìdemon flameî from the demon Etrigan, Superman feels intense pain but notes that he is not physically harmed. He fights off the pain and beats down the demon.
  
  22) Action Comics # 585: Superman military presses a magically animated mountain, almost (but not quite) big enough to ìcrush Metropolis with one step.î Note that he does say ìunnggh!î when lifting it while land bound. However, he easily achieves flight with it (evidence that his flying strength is greater than his land-bound strength) and actually flies the massive chunk of Earth, weighing billions of tons, into Outer Space quite easily. (Leaving Earthís gravity would require acheiving escape velocity, or 7 miles per second, with a mountain on his back.) Once there, he causally thinks to himself that he just will toss the mountain into orbit around the sun before being interrupted by the Phantom Stranger.
  Contrast this feat of raw power with Herculesí towing of Manhattan Island. Military pressing a weight is far more difficult than towing it, and flying it beyond Earthís gravity and tossing it into orbit around the sun requires vastly more raw power than towing it. Not sure if this mountain was quite as big as the Island (although if it kept growing it would have crushed Metropolis) but what he DID with it more than makes up for any ambiguity in the weight.
  
  23)In Superman: The Earth Stealers, Superman propels a massive space station, cylindrical in shape and stated to be 600 miles in diameter (the length of the cylinder by the way was more than twice its diameter- maybe a mountain-range sized ship) by pushing against it. The weight was inestimable- it was constructed from all the natural resources of an entire solar system. Thatís a lot of metal! A hyperspace portal was opened and Superman not only pushed it, he propelled it for 20 minutes through hyperspace (it was stated that they reached the halfway point at 10 minutes). Note that he had to exert the power to move it at the same time that he had to deal with the stresses of hyperspace unprotected. He seemed none the worse for wear by journeyís end. Note that the space station was also towing both the Earth and the Moon in a stasis field, however, being honest, I do not factor this weight into the feat as Superman himself theorized that the tractor beam was neutralizing the planetís mass. Hence he merely resisted the space stationís weight, not the Earth and Moonís.
  
  24) In Kingdom Come, Superman burrowed through the Earth (entered in Asia and came out in Gotham City, America) in seconds.
  
  25) In JLA: The Century War, ancient ìalchemical enginesî were causing the moon to fall towards the Earth. Superman and Green Lantern took turns holding the moon back against a ìgeometrically increasingî force. Superman got the longest shift before being called off to deal with an even larger threat.
  
  26)In Superman #181, Superman and Bizarro (his imperfect duplicate) switched bodies. Superman (in Bizarroís body) punched Bizarro (in Supermanís body) completely through the Earth and out the other end. Bizarro (in Supermanís body) went in through the ground in Metropolis and came out seconds later in China. He is seen ripping straight through the Earth and out the other end. Note that Supermanís body was completely unharmed, conscious, and totally unaffected by the blow.
  Superman theorized that Bizarroís body ìmay be ì potentially stronger than his if Bizarroís brain would work. However, this is highly unlikely since Bizarro was created as Supermanís imperfect duplicate and is probably at best equally strong. It is more likely that the lack of control over Bizarroís body that Superman was struggling with the entire issue (due to Bizarroís brain damage) had robbed that body of the usual fine control Superman has over his own body, and hence struck with greater force than would have liked to (the inability to control the extent of his strength was a recurring problem in that issue).
  Note also that this was a single punch that sent him through the Earth- more impressive than flying dive through the Earth.
  
  27) Superman Man of Steel #30: during his post-death power up, Superman easily grabbed, broke the forward momentum of, and easily throw in the opposite direction, a ship the size of a small moon.
  
  28) Luthor 2000 special: Superman split one of Saturnís moons with a single strike.
  
  29)Superman #175: Superman for the first time, overpowers Doomsday in hand to hand combat, which he had never been able to do before, perhaps suggesting that he is now ìstronger than ever.î
  
  30)Action Comics #782: Supermanís greatest ever feat of raw power. After flying through the sun for an increase in power, SUPERMAN MOVES A PLANET. Specifically, WarWorld, home of Braniac. But thereís more. Braniac has stolen the energy of Imperiex. Imperiex gained his power from the consumption of thousands of whole galaxies since the dawn of time. Hence his universal reputation as the ìDevourer of Galaxiesî. It is argued that Braniac wasnít resisting Supermanís push, and that Superman ws ìmerelyî moving a planet. This is directly contradicted by Braniacís narrative: ìFull thrust counter-measure! How is he moving my planet? The Kryptonian does not have that power!î The panel clearly shows the blue Imperiex energies firing from WarWorldís engines. Yes, Superman was resisting the awesome Imperiex-begotten force, and pushed WarWorld through a boom tube to the beginning of time (big bang).
  Note that this example confirms what weíve suspected all along: that whatever the role that metabolized solar energy stores play in granting Superman his powers, he is obviously accessing power beyond that of the solar energies he can absorb. A few minutes in the sun is piddling compared to galaxies of power. (All of Supermanís feats listed here exceed the energy he could have gleaned from 30 years of absorbed sunlight, BTW.) Apparently the solar energy is either ìhypermetabolizedî (as per JLA scribe Grant Morrison), indicating energy generation via Unified Field/Big Bang, or the metabolized solar energy allows access to his deeper power, likely psionic in nature (as per John Byrne).
  
  31) Superman #172: Under his ìnormalî power level, Superman destroys an Imperiex probe. He also destroyed another Imperiex probe in Superman #153. Imperiex probes arenít as tough as the real Imperiex. However, they are extensions of his being and Imperiex had been using them for billions of years, and not one probe had ever been destroyed before encountering Superman. Note that Doomsday also destroyed some probes and General Zod (another Kryptonian) destroyed two probes.
  
  32)Superman #171: With three seconds to act, Superman flies from an about-to-explode Pluto. Itís not clear from the depiction how far away from the planet he is when it explodes (although he looks to be fairly close to the explosion). He is unaffected by the blast, which obliterates the planet. He suffers only temporary ìringing in my ears.î This is either an invulnerability feat, or a flight speed feat, depending on how fast he got away and how far away he was from the planet when it exploded. Take your pick.
  
  33) Superman Man of Steel #126: Superman holds a contest of strength against an immortal god, Baal the Thundering Destroyer, and stalemates him. The gods then call Superman ìmagnificent.î
  
  34) Superman is known to be the physical equal of Captain Marvel, a being possessing the strength of Hercules, the speed of Mercury, the stamina of Atlas, and of course, the power of Zeus.
  
  
  posted by omike from the Alvaro Superman board
  
  
  35) In JLA/Starbreaker, the "destructive force of a nova" failed to do him in.
  
  36) In JLA #41, Superman absorbed the energy of the Mageddon Warhead, a device capable, at the minimum, of vaporizing half a galaxy. Writer Grant Morrison intended Mageddon to be "the primordial annihilator" capable of literally destroying everything. Visibly distressed by the absorption, Superman still suffered no harm whatsoever, and even smiled afterwards.
  
  37) Not canon: In JLA: Created Equal, book 2, Superman survived passage through a black hole.
  
  38) War of the Gods #4: Superman actually out-raced an energy beam to its target. In JLA: Heaven's Ladder, it is stated that Superman can race a photon to its target.
  
  39) In JLA # 51, Superman apparently made the trip from Saturn to Earth in a matter of seconds.
  
  40) In the JLA: Earth 2 graphic novel, the Martian Manhunter and Superman mulled over the abnormalities at "every eighth angstrom" in the DNA of the anti-matter Earthís version of Lex Luthor. An angstrom is about the size of a large atom.
  
  41) JLA# 7: As Electro-Superman, wrestled Asmodel, the deadliest King-Angel in all Heaven, and gave him all he could handle before Asmodel was teleported away. Asmodel was a being "whose every heartbeat is a thousand Hiroshimas, whose gaze can sear flesh from bone, whose blood is an acid purer than any found on Earth."
  
  42) In addition to these impressive displays against magic, Superman has actually withstood magical assaults of Skyfather-level magnitude. In JLA: Seven Caskets, with the entire JLA laid out by an energy attack from the 7 Elder gods, Superman was the first and only Leaguer to spring right back up. He subsequently defeated the Elder gods. In the JLA: Primeval, Superman shrugged off and waded through a blast of magical energy that completely incapacitated the rest of the JLA, including Zauriel and Wonder Woman (both magical beings). The blast was from Disciple, fully empowered by, and on an equal power level with, the Elder Gods; said gods were described as "impossibly ancient" by Zauriel, who is literally an angel from heaven. After wading through Discipleís best shot, Superman disabled and defeated Disciple single-handedly. Another example: Kingdom Come writer Mark Waid has stated that Captain Marvel's so-called lightning is in actuality a magical spell that merely takes the form of lightning, and that this spell contains the combined powers of Zeus, Hercules, Atlas and Mercury (the pantheon of gods from whom Captain Marvel draws his power). Superman in Kingdom Come withstood at a minimum, 4 "lightning" bolts of this magnitude, possibly many more depending on how the story is read. The fight ended with a bloodied- but very much still fighting- Superman reversing the spell by drawing Captain Marvel into the lightning's path.... and achieving a much-overlooked victory.
  posted by hector from the Alvaro Superman board
  
  
  Strength and Movement Power:
  
  43) Man of Steel #30: Standing on Earthís surface, Superman punched Lobo into orbit and beyond with one uppercut.
  
  44) Nuclear Submarines: These typically weigh between 10,000 and 20,000 tons. In Adventures of Superman #599, Superman raised a Russian nuclear submarine from the ocean floor (swamped with water as it was, it must have weighed more).
  
  45) In Superman For All Seasons, book two, he casually held a nuclear submarine overhead with one hand.
  
  46) Adventure of Superman #473: From Earth, Superman threw an alien space craft clear of Earthís gravity and into outer space. This craft was larger than an aircraft carrier and over a mile long (a typical aircraft carrier is about a 1/4 of a mile long and weighs about 100,000 tons, so this ship was about 4x that size).
  
  47) In Man of Steel #131, after taking a hit from a nuke (while sitting in kryptonite), Superman vortexed the thousands of tons of radioactive debris into the upper atmosphere by spinning around the debris at high speeds. He then used his heat vision to fuse and condense the debris into a manageable mass, then casually tossed the lump 93 million miles into the sun. After kryptonite, no less.
  
  48) Action Comics # 585: Superman muscled overhead a magically animated mountain, not quite big enough to "crush Metropolis with one step." He achieved flight with it and flew the massive chunk of earth into outer space. Once there, he tossed the mountain into orbit around the sun.
  
  49) Action Comics # 793: Superman plugged up an active volcano by very casually dropping a mountain on top of it.
  
  50) Justice League of America (old series) # 65 (early nineties): Embedded in the core of the planet Almerac, Superman dug free (without flying) through countless tons of rock all the way to the planetís surface. This was after Starbreaker had drained nearly all of Supermanís power. In the B13 storyline, Superman circumnavigated the Earth's surface by burrowing 20,000 miles through the Earth's crust in an hour.
  
  51) In Action Comics #762, Lois asked Superman to not bring her another hand-forged diamond (by squeezing a lump of coal) for Christmas this year.
  
  52) JLA: World War Three story-line: Superman was chained to the endless millwheels of the Mageddon machinery. His strength was used to move the gears of a weapon whose size dwarfed the entire Earth/Moon system.
  
  53) In Superman: The Earth Stealers, Superman propelled a massive space station, cylindrical in shape and stated to be 600 miles in diameter (the length of the cylinder, judging by the depiction, had to have been about 2500 miles ) by pushing against it. The weight was inestimable- it was constructed from all the natural resources gleaned from an entire solar system. A hyperspace portal was opened and Superman not only pushed it, he propelled it for 20 minutes through hyperspace (it was stated that they reached the halfway point at 10 minutes). He had to exert the power to move it at the same time that he had to deal with the stresses of hyperspace unprotected. Note that the space station was also towing both the Earth and the Moon in a stasis field, however, I do not factor this weight into the feat as Superman himself theorized that the stasis field was neutralizing the planetís mass. Hence he merely resisted the space stationís weight, not the Earth and Moonís.
  
  54) Several events show Superman as a moon-mover. In JLA # 7, as Electro-Superman, he halted the fall of the Moon towards Earth (caused by Neronís magical machinations), then moved the Moon back its proper position in orbit. He later commented that he's more powerful as "regular" Superman. Writer Grant Morrison and artist Howard Porter had originally intended the moon-moving event in JLA #7 be done by "regular" Superman, but DC forced them to use Electro-Supes. This event is butressed by several more. In JLA: The Century War, ancient "alchemical engines" were causing the moon to fall towards the Earth. Superman and Green Lantern took turns holding the moon back against the "geometrically increasing force" that was causing it to fall. Superman got the last "moon-bracing" shift. In Superman Man of Steel #30, Superman grabbed, easily broke the forward movement of, and easily threw in the opposite direction, a space ship the size of a small moon. In JLA # 58, Superman, Wonder Woman and Green Lantern collaborated to tow Earthís moon a distance of 238,900 miles in mere seconds, indicating a fantastic acceleration, and then pulled the moon out of Earth's gravity (which increases its weight tremendously). As he is universally regarded as the JLAís most powerful member, Iím inclined to give Superman more than one-third, and - conservatively - about one-half, the work effort. In the Lex 2000 special, with a single strike, Superman split one of Saturnís moons in half. Saturnís moons are small moons.
  
  55) In JLA #75, Superman, Wonder Woman, and Martian Manhunter, combined their efforts to tow the Earth an undisclosed distance. Following the same logic as above, I give Superman a good one half the work effort. (The team began to "lose it" at the end, however, and were bailed out by the resurrected Green Lantern, his powers inexplicably aided by the magics of Manitou Raven.)
  
  56) In Action Comics #797, Superman refers to himself as an unqualified planet mover twice. "Superman can move the Earth"; he says of himself ; later he refers to having "pushed a planet out of orbit" (presumably this refers to his moving of WarWorld in Action Comics #782 - see just below).
  
  57) In Man of Tomorrow #13, it took the combined effort of Orion, Martian Manhunter, Big Barda, Steel, Supergirl, and Wonder Woman to physically restrain Superman. They dogpiled him, but admitted, "we can't hold him for long!".
  
  58) Not canon: In Kingdom Come, Superman drilled through the Earth (he entered the planet in Asia and came out in Gotham City, America) in two panels.
  Extreme Displays
  
  59) With Wonder Woman, Superman carries a mass that embodies the ENTIRE universe (Spectre). Comically, the comic notes that "eternity is heavy" (JLA/Spectre: Soul War 1).
  
  60) JLA #77: Superman contains a black hole in the palm of his hand for an undisclosed amount of time. Later, he produces static electricity sufficient to be "corralled" by Green Lantern John Stewart into containing the black hole. Superman then launches the black hole into a neighboring wormhole.
  
  61) Action Comics #782: After emerging from the sun energized, Superman physically pushed WarWorld, (a small, Pluto-sized planet) across the solar system and into a boom tube. WarWorld did engage a "full throttle countermeasure" in resistance Supermanís push. We can see WarWorldís engines (which encompass nearly an entire hemisphere of WarWorldís surface) firing in resistance, to no avail. WarWorldsí engines allow WarWorld to travel at faster than light speeds through space, so they generate the power to accelerate a planet beyond light speed. "How is he moving my planet! The Kryptonian does not have that power!" Braniacís disbelief is reasonable since WarWorldís engines had no shortage of power ; WarWorld had just pirated the energy of Imperiex - energy gleaned from the devouring of many galaxies. (Hence Imperiexís reputation as the "Devourer of Galaxies.") Please note that Superman was energized beyond his usual power levels at this time.
  
  62) Action Comics Annual #7: Fighting in space, Superman successfully resisted the pull from a black hole that had opened up directly below (inches from) his feet. The miniature black hole had been induced by advanced alien (Htíros) war technology.

  
  DC Comics Message Boards: How MUCH stronger than Superman is ...
  I think the Man of steel has won this.
• Pwezent wrote on 2010-10-25 03:45

  Quote from Magenera;193057:

  Considering all the time goku opponents had held on to him, and the fact that Goku wouldn't know about the Source wall, highly doubt it.
  
  Also fun facts on supermanfeats:
  
  DC Comics Message Boards: How MUCH stronger than Superman is ...
  I think the Man of steel has won this.

  
  
  *claps*
• Phunkie wrote on 2010-10-25 12:12
  I gotta give it to the Man of Steel for being a powerful, defensive force. But even I don't think an atom bomb compares to the power Goku can offer.
  
  Baby Vegeta's Revenge Death Ball > atom bomb, nova, laser beam
  
  Goku beat him.
• Magenera wrote on 2010-10-25 13:44
  Yes, because adsorbing the power of a bomb design to decimate half of the galaxy isn't enough, nor surviving against a being that eats galaxies and Superman flying to its core and adsorbing its power only being disgruntled by it. If that wasn't enough Superman pushing back an Earth size planet that has Infinite energy that can go past the speed of light and being able to push the planet back like it's is nothing doesn't say that the Man of steel. Not to mention being able to survive an explosion from the use of going back in time. Revenge Death Ball power is light compare to what Superman went through, and he shrugged it off also.
  
  Look at fact #59 and 60 holding the mass of the entire mass of the Universe with Wonder woman, and holding a black hole in the palm of his hand,shows how strong he is. Though Wonder Woman is considered to be a close Second to Superman, (looking at the different ages Wonder Woman was stronger than Superman).
  
  Don't worry I am looking for the comic that shows Superman punching through time and space that should be the end all.
  
  I must say Phunkie you are a genius to bring this debate in, it has me excited. Keep on thinking of these types of debates, for I quite literally stop playing mabi because of this. :D
• Omegatronic wrote on 2010-10-25 17:20
  I think everyone overlooked on important fact that will remove any doubt of who will win.
  
  Who is publishing the fight?
  
  If the fight is occurring in a DC comic, Superman wins.
  If the fight occurs in a Shonen Jump manga (or whoever else may have DB rights), Goku wins.
  If the fight occurs in some collaboration between the two, the fight ends in a draw.
• TA wrote on 2010-10-25 18:05

  n addition to the energy liberated, the pressure at the core of the sun is equal to 250 BILLION Earth atmospheres. Such extreme pressure- literally, matter destroying pressure- does not harm the man from Krypton.

  
  
  From that, it sounds like Superman may be stronger, or at the very least more resilient. Goku became a Super Saiyan training at like 100 times gravity for 6 days, but Vegeta trained like 3 years at 400x gravity in the Android saga and at that point they said Vegeta was stronger than Goku.
  
  A lot happened after that, but I don't think they got anywhere near 250,000,000,000x gravity, that's crazy. However....
  
  

  4) In Superman/Doomsday: Hunter/Prey, Superman survived, at ground zero, a blast equal to ìa million nuclear bombsî (according to the energy being Waverider). Superman did not suffer any physical damage, though was temporarily stunned and stated that he felt concussed.

  
  
  That doesn't sound too good for him...
• Phunkie wrote on 2010-10-25 18:19
  Yeah, it does sound like Superman's definitely more resilient and "tougher" than Goku, but he also does have his limits.
  
  I still say the guy isn't as quick as our lovable Super Saiyan. And Goku has a bunch of moves and tricks up his sleeve. Afterimage, teleport technique, Spirit Bomb... it's gonna be hard to catch him at first.
  
  But yeah, sure. Goku will get tired, but so would Superman when facing such an opponent. I still don't think Superman has a vast array of finishing moves. Laser beams, sure. Super strength, granted. But Goku also has super strength. And Goku also has ki blasts.
  
  They match each other quite well. It'd be an amazing fight really.
  
  But Goku would win in the end. He keeps extending his limits. Always. And let's say that it's Dead Goku vs. Superman. As in, Goku in the Other World with the halo. That's how he reached SSJ 3. A real body was exhausting to train in. A spirit body gave him more freedom to train harder and harder.
  
  Also, by the end of GT, Goku is basically a God, like Kitae said. Not that he'll use cheap wishes to beat Superman, but his power is just incredibly.
  
  No way in heck can Superman not be fazed by a 10x Super Kamehameha by Super Saiyan 4 Goku to the face. He can withstand the strength of 250 billion Earth pressures, but can he destroy a galaxy in an instant?
  
  
  [S]I recall reading that Broly could destroy galaxies if he wanted to. That's how strong that beast is and he was only Perfect USSJ (or whatever it's called). Imagine late-GT Goku.[/S]
  
  Above needs more research. Sorry!
  
  However, if Master Roshi could destroy the moon at a power level of ~100, imagine what someone at a power level over 1 billion could do...
• Magenera wrote on 2010-10-25 19:31

  Quote from Phunkie;193672:

  Yeah, it does sound like Superman's definitely more resilient and "tougher" than Goku, but he also does have his limits.
  
  I still say the guy isn't as quick as our lovable Super Saiyan. And Goku has a bunch of moves and tricks up his sleeve. Afterimage, teleport technique, Spirit Bomb... it's gonna be hard to catch him at first.
  
  But yeah, sure. Goku will get tired, but so would Superman when facing such an opponent. I still don't think Superman has a vast array of finishing moves. Laser beams, sure. Super strength, granted. But Goku also has super strength. And Goku also has ki blasts.
  
  They match each other quite well. It'd be an amazing fight really.
  
  But Goku would win in the end. He keeps extending his limits. Always. And let's say that it's Dead Goku vs. Superman. As in, Goku in the Other World with the halo. That's how he reached SSJ 3. A real body was exhausting to train in. A spirit body gave him more freedom to train harder and harder.
  
  Also, by the end of GT, Goku is basically a God, like Kitae said. Not that he'll use cheap wishes to beat Superman, but his power is just incredibly.
  
  No way in heck can Superman not be fazed by a 10x Super Kamehameha by Super Saiyan 4 Goku to the face. He can withstand the strength of 250 billion Earth pressures, but can he destroy a galaxy in an instant?
  
  
  [S]I recall reading that Broly could destroy galaxies if he wanted to. That's how strong that beast is and he was only Perfect USSJ (or whatever it's called). Imagine late-GT Goku.[/S]
  
  Above needs more research. Sorry!
  
  However, if Master Roshi could destroy the moon at a power level of ~100, imagine what someone at a power level over 1 billion could do...

  
  
  I GIVE YOU THE BEST VERSION OF SUPERMAN.
  

  [Image: http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/37768/1404971-671614_superman_super_super.jpg]

  The Prime Superman. The founder of the Superman Dynasty. The father of them all. The wielder of the lost power ring. His powers glean from the very edge of time and space.
  
  In the year 85,271 AD, after spending one hundred centuries in the core of the Sun, Superman has evolved into this godlike being. After emerging from the sun, He crushes Solaris in one panel, creates his wife out of a sample of DNA from Solaris, takes a fragment of a doomed planet and transforms it into a full blown living world. He has been stated to have circumnavigated the Universe, wrestled evil Gods, and fought battles unimaginable. This being is something you can't put into words.
  
  In "The Divided Self," the Atom was on the frontier of a whole new, living universe, just as the super-string equations had predicted. And this intricate, breathing jewel of diversity and wonder began to strain at its boundaries, eager to unfold. But the poor, undernourished little universe of rational science and common people had just encountered a monster from the top of the food chain. Something stronger, faster, better than them had been born. They could no more stop its progress than the Neanderthals could hold back the rise of Cro-magnon man. Atom tried to reach his loved one and tell her that he'd find her again even if he had to search every inch of infinite... That is when the universe ate him. Nothing should have survived the explosive flowering of the singularity, but somehow, caught as he was between too realities... He finds himself at the Universal Gates where Superman Prime telling him he knows what he is feeling, and to try not to panic, Atom appears to have survived a dimensional collapse. He welcomes Atom to HIS universe and tells him that things happened so fast, even He couldn't preserve Atom's reality in time... Superman tells Atom that if there's one thing he's learned, it's that nothing is lost forever. He tells Atom he is welcome to stay while Atom searches for the people he loves.

  
  
  Superman (comic book character)
  Yeah best Superman = to Dr. Manhattan.
  
  This is Superman of the Modern age.
  With in one arm he can push back 200 quintillion tons or 30,000 earths.
  Can move faster than FTL most notable feats includes escaping from a black hole. Another hearing a cry from a girl from across the Galaxy and arrving there in mere seconds.
  Here is his abilites.
  

  Flight – Superman can still fly. Superman is shown to be able to fly at Superluminal speeds.
  Super Hearing – Superman is no longer able to hear at interstellar distances, but he is able to hear faster than the speed of sound, this is shown when he instantaneously arrives at Umec to shield Lois Lane from a bullet, upon hearing the shot blast in Metropolis. Actual sound waves will take roughly 7 hours to reach Metropolis.
  Healing – His healing depends on his store of solar energy within his cells. The sun is his main power source for healing.
  Heat Vision – Originally weakened, but as the story continues, once again, his heat vision is hotter than the core of the sun.
  Invulnerability – Superman has been shown to be able to tank and survive a planetary explosion.
  Super Breath – Has the ability to blow hurricane force winds and icy cold breath from his mouth.
  Super Strength – Superman has shown to be able to pull 1/3 of the Earth's weight along with Martian Manhunter and Wonder Woman.
  
  Super Speed – Early Superman reboot stories show that he can accelerate himself just below the speed of light, as the story continues, his speed increases to the point where he manages to move beyond the speed of light.
  Super–Intellect – Has shown to have incredible intelligence and computational abilities.
  Telescopic vision – Though he loses his ability to see across the Universe, he can still see distant galaxies. As shown in Superman #152, when Superman uses his telescopic vision to peer across the galaxy to Warworld.
  Microscopic vision – Able to see at a sub-cellular level, as shown when he analyzes Bizarro's cellular structure. He is even able to see on molecular level, as shown when he analyzes the molecular composition of Magpie's acid gas.
  X–ray vision–Superman still retains this ability after the John Byrne reboot.

  
  From the same source as of the Superman Prime.
  Goku is slower than Superman, he only has his Instant Transmission as his advantage as slight as it is. Goku stronger than Superman is iffy considering Supes holding 200 quintillion with one arm, and having the ability to hit at faster than FTL. Goku has his Ki, but again Supes can move faster than FTL, Looking at the comic book, there has yet to be a DBZ character can hit that speed with out the use of Instant Transmission. (Kid Buu might have to check up on that)
  Broly did destroy galaxies so you where right on that.
  
  (Should be noted that the art work for that was shown in current setting so the belief would still stand, as the story progress Superman did get stronger. Feel free to say it doesn't count or not. At least till I get the facts.)
  Also Superman did take the full brunt of a magic power of the might of Zeus, considered to be the strongest, though this was in another Universe of Superman that looked into the future. Though it is said that he gotten an item to nullify magic, whether it was kept it to be unknown, till it is said. Check the same source again for it.
  
  Are we going to do one with marvel Universe? :D
• Phunkie wrote on 2010-10-25 19:34
  Superman is hax.
  
  You are the winner of this round, Mag.