ego and g14

• Shanghai wrote on 2011-01-03 06:56

  Quote from radionoise;274200:

  Yes, R-Type weapons will hit harder when they crit... but will have less max damage to work with when they don't crit, when compared to S-Type weapons.
  
  Bows, for example, get +48 max damage from a +6 S-Type vs +62% critical damage from a +6 R-Type upgrade. In terms of average damage, R-Type weapons will be better assuming you have capped crit on a target, and this damage difference will keep increasing the higher your base max damage is.

  
  
  Hmmm, can Cylinders get R and S-Type Upgrades? If so, then my Flamer is going to be happy.
• radionoise wrote on 2011-01-03 06:59

  Quote from Shanghai;274218:

  Hmmm, can Cylinders get R and S-Type Upgrades? If so, then my Flamer is going to be happy.

  
  
  Yes, do check out this link for info on what weapons can be S/R-Type upgraded (as of g14, some of these will not be available for g13) and what their upgrades will boost.
• Shanghai wrote on 2011-01-03 07:10
  Ooh, it can be done on those Special Cylinders. :blood:
• Animefreak97 wrote on 2011-01-03 07:15

  Quote from Animefreak97;274176:

  So if you fail 6 your item goes poof?

  
  Can anyone confirm that?
• gentrone wrote on 2011-01-03 12:09

  Quote from Animefreak97;274259:

  Can anyone confirm that?

  
  
  I gather from what Nixon said earlier that you just can't upgrade it anymore.
  
  @Everyone else, I'm curious about how much better max damage can be over higher crit damage. Well I'm a mage and I did some calculations on wands (they get +magic damage %). Since melee skills add a multiplier of x% to damage, which upgrade is actually the best?
  
  I did this in another thread about magic, etc:
  
  

  Quote from Zid:

  You'll need to look at average damage between R-Type and S-Type then to consider their compared worth.

  
  
  

  Quote from gentrone:

  Yes and it seems they are all well balanced (although S type seems slightly better). Example:
  
  (I will compare level 4 upgrades because wiki doesn't provide more info on wands)
  
  10 times damage repetition:
  
  S type: +13% Magic Damage.
  
  1.13x+1.13x...(10 times)= 11.3x
  
  Extra calc: crical hit occurs 30% of the time, then (I guess it compounds):
  
  2.5x(1.13)+2.5x(1.13)+2.5x(1.13)+(1.13x...7times)= 16.385x
  
  R type: +38% critical damage
  
  2.88x+2.88x+2.88x+(1x...7 times)= 15.64x

  
  
  From this I conclude that I would do an S-type upgrade to a Lighting Wand and R-type to an Ice Wand and Fire Wand.
• Dixon wrote on 2011-01-03 19:54

  Quote from gentrone;274391:

  From this I conclude that I would do an S-type upgrade to a Lighting Wand and R-type to an Ice Wand and Fire Wand.

  
  
  Strange, I would have expected the exact opposite, since Thunder has multiple chances to land a critical hit per charge. :l
• gentrone wrote on 2011-01-04 04:32

  Quote from Dixon;274690:

  Strange, I would have expected the exact opposite, since Thunder has multiple chances to land a critical hit per charge. :l

  
  
  Yes but *overall* you will land criticals 30% of the time (from my experience, Thunder sometimes will not crit at all).
  
  But for the sake of argument let's try to calculate it:
  
  5 thunder strikes:
  
  Damage upgrade:
  
  

  a) Non crit
  
  1.13x+1.13x... (5 times)= 5.65x
  
  b) 1 crit
  
  1.13x(2.5)+1.13x... (4 times)= 7.345x
  
  c) 2 crits
  
  1.13x(2.5)...(2 times)+1.13x...(3 times)= 9.04x
  
  d) 3 crits
  
  1.13x(2.5)...(3 times)+1.13x...(2times)=10.735x
  
  e) 4 crits
  
  1.13x(2.5)...(4 times)+1.13x= 13.56x
  
  f) 5 crits (including last blow, 2x damage)
  
  1.13x(2.5)...(6 times)=16.95x
  
  g) Extra
  
  Crits only on last blow: 10.17x

  
  
  Critical upgrade
  
  

  a) Non crit
  
  b) 1x...(5 times)= 5x
  
  1 crit
  
  2.88x+4x= 6.88x
  
  c) 2 crits
  
  2.88x...(2 times)+3x= 8.76x
  
  d) 3 crits
  
  2.88x...(3 times)+2x= 10.64x
  
  e) 4 crits
  
  2.88x...(4 times)+1x= 12.52x
  
  f) 5 crits
  
  2.88x...(6 times)= 17.28x
  
  g) Extra
  
  Crits only on last blow: 9.76x

  
  
  
  As you can see, an R type upgrade on a lightning wand is only good if Thunder crits 5 times in a row (and I find it very unlikely, although possible). Even if it crits on the last charge (2x) an S-type upgrade would be superior, the way I see it. If you get no crits at all, an S-type upgrade would be a good choice.
  
  Therefore, a skill that gets a 1 crit chance only is better suited for an R-type upgrade. The opportunity cost here would be a meaningless +13% damage (which would only occur once). I think this a good analysis, right? I've been thinking about this for swords as well.
• radionoise wrote on 2011-01-05 04:41

  Quote from pataterose;274110:

  as many knows, g14 brings overupgrade up to 6 and many says this will obsolete ego. I did a few number crunch for overupgraded weapons potential. i didn't account for stuff with rolls and weapon's base stats are used.
  
  -shadow hunter spike highlander long bow-
  reaches 125 max damage, 50% crit and 2200 range
  (note here that i used the 2H boost for bow as the info i currently have is that bow and 2H have same boost for damage on overupgrades, thus might need to be changed)

  
  
  Actually, with the 305-b path (52 max, 44 crit if base grade) and using Glorious Sniping instead of Shadow Hunter Spike enchants... a +6 Highlander Long Bow would end up with 131 max and 52% critical.
  
  It would only fall 2 max damage short of the Leather Long Bow ego and 2% critical short of the Wing Bow ego at all 50... if you account for higher grade drops, this bow would essentially be better than both ego bows in terms of stats, while only sacrificing range and 100% cash shop repairs.
  
  It wouldn't be able to outdamage the Ring Bow ego, but considering the amount of enchant slots you would have to sacrifice in order to achieve a satisfactory critical rate with it... it would also give it a run for its money.
• Jovo wrote on 2011-01-05 06:40

  Quote from radionoise;276803:

  Actually, with the 305-b path (52 max, 44 crit if base grade) and using Glorious Sniping instead of Shadow Hunter Spike enchants... a +6 Highlander Long Bow would end up with 131 max and 52% critical.
  
  It would only fall 2 max damage short of the Leather Long Bow ego and 2% critical short of the Wing Bow ego at all 50... if you account for higher grade drops, this bow would essentially be better than both ego bows in terms of stats, while only sacrificing range and 100% cash shop repairs.
  
  It wouldn't be able to outdamage the Ring Bow ego, but considering the amount of enchant slots you would have to sacrifice in order to achieve a satisfactory critical rate with it... it would also give it a run for its money.

  
  
  35k per point repairs at Edern would also be not fun. Considering that SCC takes about 2-3 dur off one's bow if you try to solo, you'd be losing money (~50-85k?) everytime you did SCC. ._. I think shadow hunter spike is a more realistic enchant set for those that don't want to spent thousands more maintaining a few points of max damage.
  
  g13 also brings more crit enchants to the table. The damage enchants in g13 don't boost damage as much as the upgrades in crit do.
  Restore Static clothing by itself gives 33% crit + 15 will (total 34.5%) as well as 5 max damage versus
  Relax White Horse which only gives 17 max damage. There are other examples too but I'll leave it here for now. Though I will admit that this bow does come frighteningly close to my ego ring bow. ._.
• Karuta wrote on 2011-01-05 06:58

  Quote from radionoise;274162:

  Wow... if it's that easy, then ego weapons really need a major buff. I was worried the consequences of failure might be larger (like having to re-prof a weapon), but it seems that's not the case.

  
  
  Yea it's starting to feel like I put time/money into my bast ego for nothing =(
  
  Going for elsinore as well, but then when I look at the damage output with war swords with the new upgrades..it's making me reconsider my current set up @_@
• radionoise wrote on 2011-01-05 07:46

  Quote from Jovo;277027:

  35k per point repairs at Edern would also be not fun. Considering that SCC takes about 2-3 dur off one's bow if you try to solo, you'd be losing money (~50-85k?) everytime you did SCC. ._. I think shadow hunter spike is a more realistic enchant set for those that don't want to spent thousands more maintaining a few points of max damage.
  
  g13 also brings more crit enchants to the table. The damage enchants in g13 don't boost damage as much as the upgrades in crit do.
  Restore Static clothing by itself gives 33% crit + 15 will (total 34.5%) as well as 5 max damage versus
  Relax White Horse which only gives 17 max damage. There are other examples too but I'll leave it here for now. Though I will admit that this bow does come frighteningly close to my ego ring bow. ._.

  
  
  I was going for max damage possible with the bow, not max convenience... just the fact that it is possible to match all 50 egos in stats with that combination of enchants is scary. Besides, I wouldn't be surprised if people do go Glorious Sniping and treat it as an Ego replacement rather than a leveling bow.
  
  

  Quote from ACME;277041:

  Yea it's starting to feel like I put time/money into my bast ego for nothing =(
  
  Going for elsinore as well, but then when I look at the damage output with war swords with the new upgrades..it's making me reconsider my current set up @_@

  
  
  As far as I know, War Swords are not eligible for special upgrades yet... as of G14, only the following one handed swords can be S/R upgraded: (Battle Sword, Broad Sword, Gladius, Falcata, Dagger, Dirk). They get either +31 max at +6 S-Type, or +42% critical damage at +6 R-Type.
• Cryosite wrote on 2011-01-05 08:05
  agreed, 35k/point at Edern seems steep, but falls short of the overall price of getting an ego to 50 all stats. Considering the lower maintenance Shadow Hunter/Sniping bow is affordable and still competes heavily with the top-tier bow egos, you have to ask yourself if the money spent really justifies the flashlight or not.
  
  I'd been going with the idea that at least bow egos were still a safe investment... looks like I was wrong. R.I.P. Ego weapons.
• Karuta wrote on 2011-01-05 08:07

  Quote from radionoise;277067:

  
  As far as I know, War Swords are not eligible for special upgrades yet... as of G14, only the following one handed swords can be S/R upgraded: (Battle Sword, Broad Sword, Gladius, Falcata, Dagger, Dirk). They get either +31 max at +6 S-Type, or +42% critical damage at +6 R-Type.

  
  
  http://forum.nexon.net/Mabinogi/forums/1/6524955/ShowThread.aspx
  
  There's a lot of debate surrounding it, some are saying broad swords will be better than war swords and others are wondering if the upgrade even exists for war swords yet. Either way just seeing the possibilities of that kind of damage output with these upgrades..is pretty crazy.
• Jovo wrote on 2011-01-05 08:20

  Quote from Cryosite;277086:

  agreed, 35k/point at Edern seems steep, but falls short of the overall price of getting an ego to 50 all stats. Considering the lower maintenance Shadow Hunter/Sniping bow is affordable and still competes heavily with the top-tier bow egos, you have to ask yourself if the money spent really justifies the flashlight or not.
  
  I'd been going with the idea that at least bow egos were still a safe investment... looks like I was wrong. R.I.P. Ego weapons.

  
  
  Egos are expensive overtime. I may have put over 15 mil in my ego but it wasn't money lost in one sitting. Repairing this over and over again within the same day (say you grind 2 hours of SCC with 5 minute averages), that's 24 runs, 24 x 50k = 1.2 mil (also assuming only 2 durability loss per run and 20k in gold drops per run) in a period of 2 hours. If you're doing extended dungeons such as peaca int where bows can lose up to 12 durability (or more) with little monetary gain, the prices for repairs would be a lot steeper.
  
  
  

  Quote from ACME;277041:

  Yea it's starting to feel like I put time/money into my bast ego for nothing =(
  
  Going for elsinore as well, but then when I look at the damage output with war swords with the new upgrades..it's making me reconsider my current set up @_@

  
  
  I believe one handed egos are actually the safest from the S/R upgrades. :P Certainly no S/R blade matches bsword ego in max damage.
• radionoise wrote on 2011-01-05 08:25

  Quote from ACME;277087:

  http://forum.nexon.net/Mabinogi/forums/1/6524955/ShowThread.aspx
  
  There's a lot of debate surrounding it, some are saying broad swords will be better than war swords and others are wondering if the upgrade even exists for war swords yet. Either way just seeing the possibilities of that kind of damage output with these upgrades..is pretty crazy.

  
  
  JP wiki has a list of weapons that are available for upgrades as of g13 in their special upgrades section, and this link has a list of weapons that are available for upgrades as of g14. As Jovo mentioned, one-handed egos are pretty safe, although if war swords become eligible it'll only add more options... bow ego and 2h ego, on the other hand...