JP MML Shut Down

• Rockaholic wrote on 2011-02-19 03:24
  It's inconvient for users to have to copy the Melody, Chord1, Chord2 just to preview the song to see if they even want to use it in the first place. It would be much better usability if you could just hit a play button and listen to the song.
  
  I just thought of a possible way too. I was watching a youtube video a few weeks ago of some one coding every line of code of a MIDI player through MS DOS from scratch. I was really impressed by it :P anyways if I could take the MML code that I or some1 else will upload maybe I can then use server side code to convert it into midi format and then after that have it create a .mid file on the server. I've been able to play .mid files on firefox through quicktime so setting a play button to play and auto generated .mid file.. I'm getting pumped :p
• Kueh wrote on 2011-02-19 03:32

  Quote from Rockaholic;341009:

  It's inconvient for users to have to copy the Melody, Chord1, Chord2 just to preview the song to see if they even want to use it in the first place. It would be much better usability if you could just hit a play button and listen to the song.

  
  
  But why use something other than MML to play the song if you already have the song in MML? Do you think Mabinogi makes an MP3 or a MIDI every time a person plays an instrument, and then plays it, and then deletes it?
  
  MML is a form of music storage just like MIDI, there's no need to change it from MML to MIDI. The play button you're talking about can play the song without doing any conversion.
  
  Besides, the big reason Emueru went down was the preview feature.
• Yogurticecream wrote on 2011-02-19 03:43
  I'd prefer to copy and then paste into my MML program. The thing is that viewing the preview makes my browser stuck at times.
• Rockaholic wrote on 2011-02-19 04:06

  Quote from Whyrainfalls;341013:

  MML is a form of music storage just like MIDI, there's no need to change it from MML to MIDI. The play button you're talking about can play the song without doing any conversion.

  
  No sorry you are wrong. MML is not a form of music storage it is only a format. IMG for you.
  

  [Image: http://www.musicmarkup.info/images/mml-pos.gif]

  
  
  Creating a midi file is one way, but it's more likely Mabinogi handles this all through coding. I'll be handling this via creating a midi file because I'm talking about strictly web development not game development and I'm not even sure it would be possible to do it with server side code like php or asp.net vs C++ which is what Mabinogi is most likely coded in.
  
  

  Quote from Whyrainfalls;341013:

  Besides, the big reason Emueru went down was the preview feature.

  
  My host is offshore and because of that it doesn't fall under certain laws.. sure I might receive some cease and desist letters, but I don't really care. If you read the notice on Emueru's site, they shut down by there own free will. They state it was a hard decision. I imagine they shut down because they are so high profile, and they didn't want to risk being sued. If you actually have money for some one to gain, your much more likely to be sued.. true story
  
  
  

  Quote from Yogurticecream;341020:

  I'd prefer to copy and then paste into my MML program. The thing is that viewing the preview makes my browser stuck at times.

  
  I'll make it so you'll be completely free to copy and paste the MML in an offline editor, however I'd like to keep the play button around for those who do like to preview the song first.
  
  *also I'll try to make it not freeze up your browser. I'm pretty good at that type of debugging.
• Rockaholic wrote on 2011-02-19 04:20
  btw, any features you guys would like to see the site have? So far I got listed "search functionality", "1 - 5 star ratings", "user profiles", "messaging", and "categorizing". Oh and detecting Composing Rank needed of course.
• Ryoko wrote on 2011-02-19 06:24

  Quote from Rockaholic;341069:

  btw, any features you guys would like to see the site have? So far I got listed "search functionality", "1 - 5 star ratings", "user profiles", "messaging", and "categorizing". Oh and detecting Composing Rank needed of course.

  
  
  Perhaps things like different instrumental versions. Eg: Flute, Mandolin, Lute version or something.
  
  Coposing rank needed is good enough, and even categorize the the types of music, such as from anime, or so, just like the old one did.
• Candyrock wrote on 2011-02-19 12:47

  Quote from Arsik;324404:

  But not everyone that's actually interested in music has the ability to write their own music. Take me for example. The music system was the selling point that got me into Mabi, so I took the time to learn how to transcribe songs from standard notation to the MML format. I take time to find out how Mabi's instruments work together, and try and get songs to work with different instruments. I don't just make one MML for the Lute, and then pick up a Flute ingame and just play the scroll I just made, and wonder why it doesn't work. I take the time, arrange the song so that it can play for the flute, and have another version, specifically more of a bassline for the Mandolin, and a plain universal one for the Lute that can play both the bass and the melody nicely without focusing too heavily on each other.
  
  However, because of my natural lack of any artistic ability, I can't compose songs for ****. Any song that I have in my head that's actually my own tune is nothing more than random noises thrown together. No rhythm, no flowing from one note to another, no nothing artistic, just a bunch of random notes thrown around to make noise. Because of that, does that mean I don't get any respect whatsoever?
  
  Basically, I find your post really ignorant. Sure, maybe if you included people that learned how to transcribe and work each song to suit their needs in your list of groups of people, it really wouldn't have been as ignorant, but you're assuming that anyone that has any interest in music actually has the godgiven ability to write their own music like you can, other wise they just plagiarize other people's works and claim it as their own. Some people aren't as fortunate as you, no need to treat them any less than you because of your talents in one place. Sure, if they ripped it off of a site, and claimed it as their own, then I'd agree, but just by saying only people that can write their own music deserves any respect when it comes to the music, then that's just ignorant.

  
  
  This. I'm with Arisk on the same boat in that though I can edit an imported code to make it composable in Mabi, I can't write songs to save my life. Heck, I don't even play an instrument. (Unless you count that I played the recorder way back in elementary school for music class, but that skill has been long forgotten.) I too was sold on Mabi's music system and was very willing to work on how to make the songs I want to play be heard in the game by almost any reasonable means, and I surely wasn't going to be some hack who looks through the official site's poor excuse of a composer and equally as bad design of a "message board" for their songs to just find bad popular songs like Dynamite and Rolling Star and join in the masses of masses of overplay. My main intention is show people the variety of songs and/or the series the songs come from that I like and find others who also enjoy them and possibly even get new people to like them too. I have no intention on writing my own songs and become some kind of musician irl. Though I have quite a picky taste for music, working in such a field to make more of it isn't my thing.
  
  Also, another thing I happen to enjoy about working with 3MLE and importing midis to transcribe it into working MML is finding the midis itself. It gives me nostalgia for the early days of the internet when every site had a midi playing in its background. Kinda feels like a lost art being revived for another use.
  
  

  Quote from Rockaholic;341069:

  btw, any features you guys would like to see the site have? So far I got listed "search functionality", "1 - 5 star ratings", "user profiles", "messaging", and "categorizing". Oh and detecting Composing Rank needed of course.

  
  
  

  
  
  • PARTY SONGS! Make a way for us to see how many people are required for the song to be heard properly, or categorize the songs even more between solo play and party play. One thing I didn't like about JP MabiMML was that when I went to a page for a song that required 2 - 5 people, I couldn't see the tracks for those past player 1, most likely due to my Firefox add-ons blocking unwanted flash and javascript, but I digress. Just make a way for all tracks and all players for a song to all be seen at once on the song's page without using flash tabs or whatever JP MabiMML used.
    
  • Have us list all possible recommended instruments for a song. Let's say the song sounds best when played on an ukulele, but also sounds great on mandolin, lute, and flute. I want to be able to list all those possibilities when I add a song and not just one instrument. I guess you can make it to have ukulele as the star instrument on a quick glance and have the rest as optional, but eh.
    
  • Uploader's notes. What if I uploaded a 30-second jingle with no chord check/tuning/whatever you call it to check playback in-game for a specific purpose: For rank F - A Enthralling Performance use? I want to let others know that important detail on the song's page. I guess I could put in the comments, but IMO it just doesn't have that flair.
    
  • The ability to edit our already uploaded entries. What if I want to come back to a song I already uploaded and fix a few notes that weren't right the first time around? I don't want to post an entirely new entry just for that, especially if I intend to replace the obsolete version.
    
  • BONUS: Greenfinch, Kingfisher, and Pitta. I don't know how they could be implemented on the site, but they do need more love[s] and to be in NA Mabi ASAP[/s]. Themed layout featuring them? Also in the group of possible instruments even though they only work when the owner plays theirs or have a separate recommended section just for them? Only something to write in on the uploader's notes? No idea, but it is something to think about for maybe a future update for the site.
    
  • MAYBE?: Guides. So we can have more people who are willing to learn how this works start off on the right path. Have users upload stuff like basics and even tricks or how they transcribe from midi to Mabi. May not be much, but worth a look.
    
• Rockaholic wrote on 2011-02-19 19:25
  Here is the database I came up with.
  

  [Image: http://designfromscratch.com/images/db.jpg]

  
  

  Quote from Ryoko;341202:

  Perhaps things like different instrumental versions. Eg: Flute, Mandolin, Lute version or something.

  
  

  Quote from Candyrock;341354:

  
  

  
  
  • Have us list all possible recommended instruments for a song. Let's say the song sounds best when played on an ukulele, but also sounds great on mandolin, lute, and flute. I want to be able to list all those possibilities when I add a song and not just one instrument. I guess you can make it to have ukulele as the star instrument on a quick glance and have the rest as optional, but eh.
    

  
  

  
  
  Got it down. See tables: instruments_solos, & instruments_jams.
  Maybe have a little icon of the instrument show next to the name with a color coated background. Maybe green bg with a star for strength 5, green bg no star for strength 4, yellow bg for strength 3, orange bg for strength 2, and red bg for strength 1. No icon for instruments not selected.
  
  

  Quote from Candyrock;341354:

  
  

  
  
  • PARTY SONGS! Make a way for us to see how many people are required for the song to be heard properly, or categorize the songs even more between solo play and party play. One thing I didn't like about JP MabiMML was that when I went to a page for a song that required 2 - 5 people, I couldn't see the tracks for those past player 1, most likely due to my Firefox add-ons blocking unwanted flash and javascript, but I digress. Just make a way for all tracks and all players for a song to all be seen at once on the song's page without using flash tabs or whatever JP MabiMML used.
    

  
  
  I couldn't see all the tracks to a party song either. I'll be sure to make it much more user friendly then what MabiMML used. I'll also take in consideration how a page should behave if a user has javascript turned off. I'm a big fan of AJAX, but I won't make the site unusable if they have it turned off.
  
  

  Quote from Candyrock;341354:

  
  

  
  
  • Uploader's notes. What if I uploaded a 30-second jingle with no chord check/tuning/whatever you call it to check playback in-game for a specific purpose: For rank F - A Enthralling Performance use? I want to let others know that important detail on the song's page. I guess I could put in the comments, but IMO it just doesn't have that flair.
    

  
  
  Great idea. A lot of people in game don't even know what tuning is so yes I will definitely add a check box you can check to state whether or not it has tuning as well as a tiny help link that people can click on to find out more about tuning.
  
  

  Quote from Candyrock;341354:

  
  

  
  
  • The ability to edit our already uploaded entries. What if I want to come back to a song I already uploaded and fix a few notes that weren't right the first time around? I don't want to post an entirely new entry just for that, especially if I intend to replace the obsolete version.
    

  
  
  No problem. In order to upload any MML you'll need to login, after that you'll be able to Create, Update, & Delete any MML you have placed on the site.
  
  

  Quote from Candyrock;341354:

  
  

  
  
  • BONUS: Greenfinch, Kingfisher, and Pitta. I don't know how they could be implemented on the site, but they do need more love[s] and to be in NA Mabi ASAP[/s]. Themed layout featuring them? Also in the group of possible instruments even though they only work when the owner plays theirs or have a separate recommended section just for them? Only something to write in on the uploader's notes? No idea, but it is something to think about for maybe a future update for the site.
    

  
  
  Yeah after the site is launched that could be an update.
  
  

  Quote from Candyrock;341354:

  
  

  
  
  • MAYBE?: Guides. So we can have more people who are willing to learn how this works start off on the right path. Have users upload stuff like basics and even tricks or how they transcribe from midi to Mabi. May not be much, but worth a look.
    

  
  
  Will do. It'll even be in the main navigation as "Learning Center".
  
  

  Quote from Ryoko;341202:

  
  Composing rank needed is good enough, and even categorize the the types of music, such as from anime, or so, just like the old one did.

  
  
  I actually only got to spend a couple days on that site and running it through google translator is probably why a lot of things were broken for me.. how do these categories sound?
  
  

  
  
  • anime
    
  • classical
    
  • rock
    
  • country
    
  • alternative
    
  • pop
    
  • hip hop
    
  • jazz
    
  • blues
    

  
  
  Thanks for such excellent feedback!
• Yogurticecream wrote on 2011-02-19 19:39
  If possible, add self-composition to the categories. There are plenty of people who think up of their own tunes. I'm just one of them.
  
  If you do ever get this up and working, I'll put in all my collections from the old JP website and also my own favorites in it.
• Osayidan wrote on 2011-02-19 19:57
  You should split off the character info into its own table so you can match it up to users, allowing them to have multiple characters.
  Probably not something needed if you only want them to list one, but in the future if you change your mind it'll save you some work.
• Rockaholic wrote on 2011-02-19 20:57

  Quote from Yogurticecream;341682:

  If possible, add self-composition to the categories. There are plenty of people who think up of their own tunes. I'm just one of them.

  
  
  Sure! of course, "Self Composition" added to the list.
  
  

  Quote from Yogurticecream;341682:

  
  If you do ever get this up and working, I'll put in all my collections from the old JP website and also my own favorites in it.

  
  
  THAT WOULD BE AWESOME!!! Please do so. I make websites for a living, and I love Mabinogi so yes this site is going to happen =]
  
  
  If anyone else wants to contribute to the site just let me know.
  
  Artistic Ability? Do you know Photoshop or Fireworks?
  Their are a number of icons, buttons, forms, and page layouts that you could help with.
  
  Do you know html/css?
  I could totally use some help with slicing up Photoshop or Fireworks and turning it into something the browser can understand. Rendering in all browsers (IE, FF, Chrome, Safari, etc) the same, will be a lot of work.
  
  Do you know PHP? MVC?
  Help me with the core functionality! This stuff is tough and 2 brains better then 1.
  
  Know anything about security?
  Helping me make this site hack proof would be awesome!
  
  Quality Checking
  Just let me know if something isn't working right or could be improved!
  
  Site Promoting
  Get the word out! Let people know about the site. The more people know about the site, the more people will join, offer to help, upload their MML, and make this site a success!
  
  
  Multi Language Support
  Is English your 2nd language? How about being a translator so the entire Mabinogi World can use this site :]
  
  
  

  Quote from Osayidan;341711:

  You should split off the character info into its own table so you can match it up to users, allowing them to have multiple characters.
  Probably not something needed if you only want them to list one, but in the future if you change your mind it'll save you some work.

  
  
  Pro Tip from Osayidan! Thanks, I updated it^^
  I checked out http://mabi.osayidan.net/ What a gold mind! Thanks for sharing. After I pay off my school debt for web development I'm totally going for networking too. Programming keeps getting outsourced >.< at least with networking it requires a body to be on site. After I get this site up wanna be affiliates :D?
  
  

  [Image: http://designfromscratch.com/images/db2.jpg]
• Osayidan wrote on 2011-02-19 21:14
  Sure just PM me when it's up.
• Rockaholic wrote on 2011-02-19 21:21

  Quote from Osayidan;341839:

  Sure just PM me when it's up.

  
  
  Will do thanks a ton ^^
• Rockaholic wrote on 2011-02-20 23:42
  :awesome:
  Aight guys, I'm ready for some people to start adding to the library & testing out all the functionality.
  
  Here's the link: http://mabimml.org
  Sign up required to add MML but,
  you can login as guest to view MML
• Rockaholic wrote on 2011-02-21 02:40
  also any feed back would be much appreciated.