General Melee Discussion - WM is not being nerfed in G14

• Alexane wrote on 2011-04-08 19:48

  Quote from Syrion;401709:

  if you cut around 30 max damage from that set you could do it for a 1/10th the price, and still get a reasonable amount of damage
  
  with stout wild boars and broadswords over falcatas
  
  ive had reasonable success with pet swiping to manage aggro and can juggle around 4-5 aggro without much problems, at around 200ms ping, at 300+ it gets hard, but im all the way up in Canada so anywhere in the US should be fine with a decent ISP.
  
  it really improved my pet play alot to switch up my style and use it to defend my wming rather that ambiguously swiping anything on my ass.
  
  it also helps to preswipe monsters that havent aggroed you and desummon the pet to preserve them in a passive state
  
  tho what screws me over the most is hesitation to desummon a dead pet (cuz i hate it when i desummon it, forget to res it later, then summon it again only to go like FFFFFFF)

  
  
  Ahh but the beauty of my items is super high max damage and lots of crit to land crit smashes in hardmodes/elites which is what i spend 90% of my mabi time doing, it was well worth the cost for what i paid, if i ever get restored white horse dex round hat and elegant on my wpc i can crit anywhere in mabi regardless of where it is.
• Syrion wrote on 2011-04-08 20:00

  Quote from Alexane;401733:

  Ahh but the beauty of my items is super high max damage and lots of crit to land crit smashes in hardmodes/elites which is what i spend 90% of my mabi time doing time doing, it was well worth the cost for what i paid, if i ever get restored white horse dex delu and elegant on my wpc i can crit anywhere in mabi regardless of where it is.

  
  
  You probably smash alot more than me, my set is almost completely max damage centric cuz i wm alot more than smash
  
  its more damage efficient for my playstyle
  
  basic avenger, WN (gonna put peaceful), fox delusional (failed my vine burn zzzz, dont wanna waste a corundum for 2 max dmg), 9 roll fleet (B> viscount)
  
  for endgame im thinking about ditching crit completely and rolling 2 moment knight swords with a protection+max damage set and maiz title to mana shield tank
  
  i figure melee is bound to get hit once in a while, so ima tank like a beast and still have good damage output
• Alexane wrote on 2011-04-08 20:04

  Quote from Syrion;401746:

  You probably smash alot more than me, my set is almost completely max damage centric cuz i wm alot more than smash
  
  its more damage efficient for my playstyle
  
  basic avenger, WN (gonna put peaceful), fox delusional (failed my vine burn zzzz, dont wanna waste a corundum for 2 max dmg), 9 roll fleet (B> viscount)
  
  for endgame im thinking about ditching crit completely and rolling 2 moment knight swords with a protection+max damage set and maiz title to mana shield tank
  
  i figure melee is bound to get hit once in a while, so ima tank like a beast and still have good damage output

  
  
  I was 100% max damage before one of my old friends (ex friend now) showed me how much crit really means to people who don't just wm the difference between my smash and my crit smash in hardmodes/elites is about 1k/4-5k so i tend to rely on crit-mash so much more than wm. If I'm not just wm spamming when i do get poked on elite/hardmode I'm just sent into deadly not killed.
  If your style suits you i'm happy, but i could never play that style personally, lol.
• Koishi wrote on 2011-04-08 20:17
  Max damage has diminishing returns enchant-wise, because more of it is coming from your STR base as you level up. So enchanting for crit is more efficient in the long run, until you hit 140-170% (enough to crit in Advanced HM)
  
  But still, I think discussing things like damage and pet play kinda glosses over the shortcomings of melee, i.e. even a lowish mage (800-1200) will be able to deal out lots of damage, and do it in relative safety, once they have R1 Thunder, R1 Magic Mastery, R1 Lightning Mastery (roughly 700 AP) and R6 Mana Shield (roughly 250 AP), with a bolt, and the music skills (about 200 AP) for mid-game INT. From there, they can continue to rank Int, or they can take a few Defense/Combat Mastery ranks for survivability, and they really won't even need to touch something like Ice Spear. Archery needs life skill grinding to really be end-game, but you can get by with say, Refine/Weaving. And there is still the relative safety issue.
  
  I could take my melee APs, finish my Thunder by deranking my WM to 9, or deranking my Smash to 9 and my WM to 5, then finish my bolts and my MS by deranking my FH to F, and my Sword Mastery to F, and I'll likely have become a significantly more effective player, in both damage output AND survivability.
  
  Melee just takes a lot more effort for equal or lesser output, which is fundamentally unbalanced.
  
  I have ****ty ranks for most of my magic, yet I'm still somewhat passable in Adv and Hard with R7 Thunder. If I had a supply of MP potions, I could be nearly as effective with my barely started magic as I am with my melee with 800ish AP and multiple damage enchants (A bunch of ravens, WNWPC and White Horse)
• Tablo wrote on 2011-04-08 20:20
  yay now i need hp pots for their method, no more deadly scc runs. if i'm gon have to pot for every fkn windmill, i'm glad i went dk.
  this is incredibly stupid. why is devcat doing this?
• Mentosftw wrote on 2011-04-08 20:23
  -.- I think windmill should get stronger when your're in deadly just to make up for the fact that it's so easy to die in deadly...
• radionoise wrote on 2011-04-08 20:29
  If human melee/range had the same growth/efficiency/dps as alchemy and magic at all stages of development, then there would be no point in being anything but a giant meleer or an elf ranger.
• Syrion wrote on 2011-04-08 20:31
  can some1 change the thread title, 90% of people arent reading the thread
  
  

  Quote from Koishi;401772:

  Max damage has diminishing returns enchant-wise, because more of it is coming from your STR base as you level up. So enchanting for crit is more efficient in the long run, until you hit 140-170% (enough to crit in Advanced HM)
  
  But still, I think discussing things like damage and pet play kinda glosses over the shortcomings of melee, i.e. even a lowish mage (800-1200) will be able to deal out lots of damage, and do it in relative safety, once they have R1 Thunder, R1 Magic Mastery, R1 Lightning Mastery (roughly 700 AP) and R6 Mana Shield (roughly 250 AP), with a bolt, and the music skills (about 200 AP) for mid-game INT. From there, they can continue to rank Int, or they can take a few Defense/Combat Mastery ranks for survivability, and they really won't even need to touch something like Ice Spear. Archery needs life skill grinding to really be end-game, but you can get by with say, Refine/Weaving. And there is still the relative safety issue.
  
  I could take my melee APs, finish my Thunder by deranking my WM to 9, or deranking my Smash to 9 and my WM to 5, then finish my bolts and my MS by deranking my FH to F, and my Sword Mastery to F, and I'll likely have become a significantly more effective player, in both damage output AND survivability.
  
  Melee just takes a lot more effort for equal or lesser output, which is fundamentally unbalanced.
  
  I have ****ty ranks for most of my magic, yet I'm still somewhat passable in Adv and Hard with R7 Thunder. If I had a supply of MP potions, I could be nearly as effective with my barely started magic as I am with my melee with 800ish AP and multiple damage enchants (A bunch of ravens, WNWPC and White Horse)

  
  
  For magic vs melee, melee is far more sustainable cost wise. I dont know how that will change with g14 farms, but magic will always cost you more time and money on a continual bases for mana pots.
  
  As for dmg vs crit, ive never really thought about it in that sense but that makes sense, and will probably continue to be more true as more str skills are released. Crit smashes are nice and it feels great to hit 7k+ on elite with a golem smash, so i may give a crit set a try. The reason im geared as i am because the missions that give me more trouble are typically the ones where i need to WM more.
• Malogg wrote on 2011-04-08 20:34

  Quote from Tablo;401776:

  yay now i need hp pots for their method, no more deadly scc runs. if i'm gon have to pot for every fkn windmill, i'm glad i went dk.
  this is incredibly stupid. why is devcat doing this?

  
  
  Protip: Read the thread.
• Malogg wrote on 2011-04-08 20:36

  Quote from radionoise;401781:

  If human melee/range had the same growth/efficiency/dps as alchemy and magic at all stages of development, then there would be no point in being anything but a giant meleer or an elf ranger.

  
  
  What the hell did you expect? If the only thing you want to do is range or melee, there is no point to being human. Duh!
  
  EDIT: Human's ability to use multiple skill sets are their only strength. Giants should be beast at melee, and elves should be beast at range. That's the way it was meant to be.
• Tablo wrote on 2011-04-08 20:36

  Quote from DarkLord7;401786:

  Protip: Read the thread.

  
  
  just read it, thanks for pointing that out. i had started searching up korean websites and I couldn't find anything on it....
• Roy Mustang wrote on 2011-04-08 20:37

  Quote from Tablo;401788:

  just read it, thanks for pointing that out. i had started searching up korean websites and I couldn't find anything on it....

  
  
  I just started reading through the thread instead of quick glancing off the 1st page.
  
  Wow, we got trolled hard :(
• Tablo wrote on 2011-04-08 20:41
  edit for the first post would be great...in case of people like me (post first, then read) wouldn't get upset over nothing :)
• starpaw7 wrote on 2011-04-08 20:42
  Lesson: Read the whole thread before posting :fail:
  
  
  Unless it has a ridiculous amount of pages, read at least most of it
  
  
  
  
  I would recommend for the thread Creator to edit the first post, so then skimmers know :what:
• Alexane wrote on 2011-04-08 20:52

  Quote from Tablo;401776:

  yay now i need hp pots for their method, no more deadly scc runs. if i'm gon have to pot for every fkn windmill, i'm glad i went dk.
  this is incredibly stupid. why is devcat doing this?

  
  Really hope that's sarcasm because at 10% its 180 hp per wm for infra 65 for humans, And i personally hate magic hate it's repairs and hate mana pots, i will eventually out damage mages with my melee/range even if it takes awhile.