General Melee Discussion - WM is not being nerfed in G14

• User495 wrote on 2011-04-08 20:56

  Quote from Syrion;401606:

  moment economy wont happen, i just want it cuz im crazy like that
  
  r3 swords? gtfo
  
  anyway, i smash spam in most of the harder missions with golems
  
  What fxcking ever

  
  
  any high lvled Meleer should be using Smash more often than WM, so agreed
  
  
  

  Quote from Alexane;401630:

  Golem wm i can understand but honestly, 2 reasons they wont nerf it,
  1. they have a quest MADE for pure wm and using hp pots to get through it would cost an arm and a leg, It would give you such bad potion poison to avoid the 'nerfed' damage rate
  
  2. it's pretty much melee's ONLY aoe attack. yes other classes have aoe but for 100% melee it's the ONLY thing you can rely on when you are getting multi aggroed by 10+ monsters at a time (sulfer spider elite anyone?)

  
  
  everyone really overhypes WM it isn't THAT great of a skill, it's versatile, but not overpowered, in most situations where you get multiaggroed to where WM is absolutely necessary, that's when you bring a party, Mabi wasn't designed around pet play, so don't even put that into a the argument (also agreeing with this, just kinda adding on to it?)
  
  

  Quote from Alexane;401685:

  At age 10 level....70 80 90 or 100 is what i usually float around, with my lizard spike falcatas, maxed raven fleet boots delu vine torks cap, 2 earthquake stout accessorys, extra glassfragment newbwear and wnwpc im around 400 max and 101% crit, my carpentry is around rank 7 or 6, not sure been lazy and not at home atm to check, rank 4 final hit, my str is over 300 without my 35 str accessory's I started 100% melee based and have been almost exclusively melee other then r1 range r5 ar r1 prod mastery refine, ect starting my range combat style off so i don't get bored of being 100% melee (dex floats around 200-250 depending on how much i level.
  
  
  *edit* pro players?......I'm far from pro and i know how to pet swipe...have the pet summons hotkeyed have sit hotkeyed and have de summon hot keyed...it's not as hard as it looks/sounds.
  
  *edit* my total is like 1385 so lets just say I'm 1.4k for arguments sake
  Also every double rainbow i've never gotten less then 1-70 few times i went to 80 (got to level 80 on one spend the next 5 days hitting level 100 for my journal points only ever hit level 100 2 times)

  
  
  you don't have to be lvl 2k+ to be considered "pro" beyond lvl 1k most players are practically the same as each other, so by then it depends on "skill" as some people would put it
  
  

  Quote from Mentosftw;401778:

  -.- I think windmill should get stronger when your're in deadly just to make up for the fact that it's so easy to die in deadly...

  
  
  that would be nice
  
  and I did read the whole thread (it's somewhat more entertaining that way than to just post instantly, cause y'know that's what threads do "entertain" or keep your interest or something like that) so I'm just contributing to the discussion
  
  
  
  I kinda wish they'd put less emphasis on the idea of enchants make more of a difference to your character than your own abilities (damage and stuff wise, maybe if they modified it to where it affects charge/load speed and things of that nature)
  
  and blah I lost track of what else I was gonna say in this post o well maybe next time
• radionoise wrote on 2011-04-08 20:57

  Quote from DarkLord7;401787:

  What the hell did you expect? If the only thing you want to do is range or melee, there is no point to being human. Duh!
  
  EDIT: Human's ability to use multiple skill sets are their only strength. Giants should be beast at melee, and elves should be beast at range. That's the way it was meant to be.

  
  
  You missed the point.
  
  For example, if human melee had the same growth/efficiency/dps as magic at most stages of development (which is something Koishi would be content with, from what I gather), then there would be no reason to be either since giant melee would be far better than both.
• Alexane wrote on 2011-04-08 21:01

  Quote from Sevian;401803:

  
  I kinda wish they'd put less emphasis on the idea of enchants make more of a difference to your character than your own abilities (damage and stuff wise, maybe if they modified it to where it affects charge/load speed and things of that nature)

  
  
  I'm still far, i have so many melee skills=/=str boosting skills not r1, untill my melee and str are maxed i don't see myself as pro, windmill is not op it's very useful at times but has it's drawbacks, we agree there, enchants are 90% of the game, you can be r1 all skills and no enchants and be beaten out by someone with maxed end game enchants, but a lot weaker skills.
• Zeo wrote on 2011-04-08 21:03
  Good. Windmill deserves to be nerfed anyway as everyone is using it too much nowadays.
• User495 wrote on 2011-04-08 21:04

  Quote from Alexane;401809:

  I'm still far, i have so many melee skills=/=str boosting skills not r1, untill my melee and str are maxed i don't see myself as pro, windmill is not op it's very useful at times but has it's drawbacks, we agree there, enchants are 90% of the game, you can be r1 all skills and no enchants and be beaten out by someone with maxed end game enchants, but a lot weaker skills.

  
  
  that's what I don't like about the enchants, which is why I would prefer if enchants instead affect things like load/charge speed, attack speeds, or things like explosion resistent/poison resistence or even PD over some of the things they do now, or stamina/mana reductions <-- that I would actually really like on an enchant xD
• Alexane wrote on 2011-04-08 21:05

  Quote from Zeo;401810:

  Good. Windmill deserves to be nerfed anyway as everyone is using it too much nowadays.

  
  
  Not everyone wm's like mad, a lot of us use it as a mild attack and defence.
• Syrion wrote on 2011-04-08 21:09

  Quote from Alexane;401817:

  Not everyone wm's like mad, a lot of us use it as a mild attack and defence.

  
  
  Im a fking beyblade
• User495 wrote on 2011-04-08 21:09

  Quote from Alexane;401817:

  Not everyone wm's like mad, a lot of us use it as a mild attack and defence.

  
  
  agreed, feels like it's a common misconception started by someone that also started this hype about how OP WM is
  but who knows I'm more of a casual player than anything even though I have a full Colin Set, so I don't notice alot of "OP-ness" of things
  
  and alot of times I welcome someone with an OP skill because it makes the harder dungeons easier, in terms of a dungeon that I normally can't do myself (though there are those that are jerks, or stuck up because of those "skills")
• Alexane wrote on 2011-04-08 21:12

  Quote from Syrion;401823:

  Im a fking beyblade

  
  Lmao, ok, rep+ for that joke.
• Oizen wrote on 2011-04-08 21:15
  When guides for bosses say "Spam windmil to beat it" Somthing needs to be done, but not with the skill damage.
  
  More of they need to fix Monster's AIs so Windmil doesn't cause them to stop moving.
• Claudia wrote on 2011-04-08 21:20
  Whoo.
  
  ...Time to go back to not caring about damage, as usual.
• Koishi wrote on 2011-04-08 21:27

  Quote from OizenX;401832:

  When guides for bosses say "Spam windmil to beat it" Somthing needs to be done, but not with the skill damage.
  
  More of they need to fix Monster's AIs so Windmil doesn't cause them to stop moving.

  
  
  Or make it so they can be beaten by conventional strategies. I think Advanced Heavy Stander is the absolute WORST concept in Mabinogi, and makes "difficult" monsters spamfests or zergrushes (except for Grim Reaper, I guess)
• Justified wrote on 2011-04-08 21:38

  Quote from OizenX;401832:

  When guides for bosses say "Spam windmil to beat it" Somthing needs to be done, but not with the skill damage.
  
  More of they need to fix Monster's AIs so Windmil doesn't cause them to stop moving.

  
  
  ^
  This, among other things, is why Windmill is broken.
  If you look at the damage, it's still decent. For a well-geared player, it's damage can rival Intermediate Magic DPS.
  Compared to Crash Shot, it isn't limited to a certain number of targets, and the damage is thoroughly spread out.
  It's the only skill to provide smooth invincibility frames. Blaze locks you up, as do paper airplanes and personas. Trans has a long cooldown.
  Along with Flame Burst, it is much too powerful at aggro manipulation. Classic example was Ciar Advance, where you could reduce sextuple aggro down to double aggro if you knew how to do it properly.
  
  Especially with the reduced effort put into new content, pet play isn't as vital as it was in Ciar Advance. Mobs often aren't mixed enough to require it, and Assault Slash reduces the thread from ranged attacks. Melee mobs are also retarded, they no longer stall or weave around you to add to confusion, instead just charging forth repeatedly, and sometimes loading Smash to make it even easier.
  
  
  

  Quote from Koishi;401842:

  Or make it so they can be beaten by conventional strategies. I think Advanced Heavy Stander is the absolute WORST concept in Mabinogi, and makes "difficult" monsters spamfests or zergrushes (except for Grim Reaper, I guess)

  
  
  I disagree. Mobs without Advance Heavy Stander are much too easy, just spam knockback skills. Especially in a party.
  With Advance Heavy Stander you're actually pressed to deal high amounts of damage and protect yourself, instead of just WMWMWMWM MAGMAGMAGMAG FBFBFBFB.
• Dracius wrote on 2011-04-08 21:44

  Quote from Mentosftw;401778:

  -.- I think windmill should get stronger when your're in deadly just to make up for the fact that it's so easy to die in deadly...

  
  
  When you're in deadly, it's logical (Haha, some real logic in Mabinogi) that you get weaker, because you're exhausted and can't tank anymore hits.
  Having Windmill get stronger when you're in deadly is like having Healing heal more when you're nearly at max HP (Redundant, no?)
  
  Either way, if this was real (I think?), it's stop all those annoying people who do nothing but run up to monsters and Windmill. If anybody bothered to read the text that Ranald says when you get Windmill (For Humans), he says that it's a last resort, when you're surrounded by monsters and can't do anything. If Windmill was meant to be spammed, there wouldn't even be any health-decrease.
  
  Sure, it makes one hell of an attack skill, but it wasn't designed that way.
• Malogg wrote on 2011-04-08 21:52

  When you're in deadly, it's logical (Haha, some real logic in Mabinogi) that you get weaker, because you're exhausted and can't tank anymore hits.
  Having Windmill get stronger when you're in deadly is like having Healing heal more when you're nearly at max HP (Redundant, no?)

  
  
  Fine. I want massive wm range and damage, since I am a giant with muscular, long arms. Giants are twice the size of humans. All of our melee should be 5x the damage of humans. How's that for logic?
  And since we are bringing "logic" into this conversation, why the hell isn't summon golem a magic skill, hmm?
  
  Balance is way more important than logic. T.T
  
  EDIT: Bunshin and Berserker please.