G13 Class System

• oddy231 wrote on 2010-07-26 17:56

  Quote from JustNoOne;105284:

  But is implementing a class system the best solution to tackle this problem? I don't believe so because it can infringe on people's dream of becoming the Jack of all trades and master of all. My version of my "fantasy life" ask for me to use all skill and to restrict certain skills just makes my "fantasy life" go down the drain.
  
  Some combinations may be to powerful, and they can be unfair, but restricting people to certain skills isn't the best way to deal with it, why not have other systems like different stat gain for every class, damage modification and other methods that might not have been stated.

  
  
  It's a better way then I could think of being implemented. And not everyone wants to be a master of all or even can if they chose a race other than human. This puts people who want to or have specialize on par with the people like you, who don't. This game is going from you have to do this to be good, to you can do anything and be good. Look at merchants for example, the only reason my sister plays this game is to cook, make clothes, make potions and what not, that's her fantasy life. All she has are life skills and she hates fighting, she only gets to about level twenty a rebirth. Now she can level up and do what she likes to do at the same time. I think the fantasy life of anyone but human hybrids existed until this update, and now their mad because they don't have it all anymore.
• Mario wrote on 2010-07-26 17:56
  Whats the point of those classes?
• Zid wrote on 2010-07-26 17:56

  Quote from oddy231;105262:

  They restrict class skills the same way they restrict race skills, for balance. Adventurers can't use Hailstorm and Wizards can't windmill for the same reason elves can't you windguard and humans can't use final shot. Those combinations are too powerful and mostly aren't fair to people who specialize. One thing I absolutely hate about this game is that, lets say I spend tons of Ap on magic skills to get them to Rank 1 and none on anything else but smash, I get that to Rank 1, my Ice Spear damage will be the same as the warrior that spent all his Ap on combat skills except for Ice Spear that he got to Rank 1. However my smash damage at Rank 1 will be no were near his at Rank 1, It's completely unfair. That's why I like the idea of having a wizard only restricted skill, this can't happen that way and it gives magic users enough of an advancement to be on par will others.

  
  
  However, it's unfair to the warrior since you are able to have higher Int/MP than the warrior. Mana Shield with those stats = greater tanking than the warrior. Already similar to the class system, but with much less restriction, more freedom in what you want to do. You already are making a class, and that is your class, with what you want to do. "Overpoweredness" is arbitrary here, since it directly involves only one or a few situations.
  
  Race are restricted in some things, but not to the degree in which the classes restrict. I can't say for Adventurer and Hailstorm (since I see Hailstorm as not being that useful), but Wizards not having Windmill is on a different level of restriction than Elves not being able to use Wind Guard, just because of what Windmill does compared to Wind Guard.
  
  Though, if a class system is so desired (because of the risk of hybrid "overpoweredness") and is imminent to happen, it'll happen. Still with flaws that need to be addressed.
• oddy231 wrote on 2010-07-26 18:00

  Quote from Zeo;105290:

  Yes, I got to say I agreed with you on this one.. :/ I'm a hybrid of mage and alchemist (nag nag nag), and I don't want to choose to be either Wizard, Alchemist, or Adventurer, because I'd be restricted to some skills, in a way.. :I

  
  
  Let my apply my previous post to you. Say I'm the same level as you but I just all my Ap into Magic. We'll do the same thunder damage but when I run out of mana I'm screwed, you can use golem of any other alchemy skill to stay alive. You aren't losing anything in this update it's just putting me on the same level as you.
• JustNoOne wrote on 2010-07-26 18:06
  Sure people can do whatever that want, and your sister can do everything she wants and be good that's fine.
  
  But is it right for those people that want everything to be rejected of certain skills such as Hailstorm, Masteries and other potential skills that might come in the future? Is giving people an option to specialize in a certain area of Mabinogi and excel while ignoring those who want everything, to have the option of doing everything right?
  
  I don't believe so at all, and to not let those people that want everything achieve what they want. I don't believe that this system caters to Mabinogi as well as other systems that can potentially be better and fair for ALL of Mabinogi.
  
  

  Quote from oddy231;105314:

  Let my apply my previous post to you. Say I'm the same level as you but I just all my Ap into Magic. We'll do the same thunder damage but when I run out of mana I'm screwed, you can use golem of any other alchemy skill to stay alive. You aren't losing anything in this update it's just putting me on the same level as you.

  
  
  The problem with this is that they are both unequal to begin with since one has put less effort into increasing their mana pool than the other. I don't think laziness should be rewarded.
• EndlessDreams wrote on 2010-07-26 18:23
  Most of the skills can be used by the adventurer. The main skills that they don't get to use are hailstorm and all of the new masteries. People who rebirth frequently don't get rejected from such skills because they can change their classes very frequently. However, those that wait a long time before rebirths will have to be stuck with the weaknesses/strengths of certain classes.
  
  Classes is just another business model by devCat to try to get people to spend more money to rebirth more, similar to demi-god skills.
  
  These classes won't really apply much to me since my skills will all be r1 long ago by the time Generation 13 comes around. Classes will be more of encouraging me to rebirth more rather than discouraging me to play.
• Deitylight wrote on 2010-07-26 18:30

  Quote from EndlessDreams;105341:

  Most of the skills can be used by the adventurer. The main skills that they don't get to use are hailstorm and all of the new masteries. People who rebirth frequently don't get rejected from such skills because they can change their classes very frequently. However, those that wait a long time before rebirths will have to be stuck with the weaknesses/strengths of certain classes.
  
  Classes is just another business model by devCat to try to get people to spend more money to rebirth more, similar to demi-god skills.
  
  These classes won't really apply much to me since my skills will all be r1 long ago by the time Generation 13 comes around. Classes will be more of encouraging me to rebirth more rather than discouraging me to play.

  
  
  I most certainly agree with you but i sitll think skills that are needed for mainstream should be usable by all classes.
• Aubog007 wrote on 2010-07-26 19:04

  Quote from JustNoOne;105323:

  
  
  But is it right for those people that want everything to be rejected of certain skills such as Hailstorm, Masteries and other potential skills that might come in the future? Is giving people an option to specialize in a certain area of Mabinogi and excel while ignoring those who want everything, to have the option of doing everything right?
  
  I don't believe so at all, and to not let those people that want everything achieve what they want. I don't believe that this system caters to Mabinogi as well as other systems that can potentially be better and fair for ALL of Mabinogi.
  
  
  

  
  
  Give human's mirage shot or final shot then.
  If they really wanted to stick with the plan there should only be ONE race.
  They broke that by adding races. Now they are adding classes.
  Give this one year and people will stop complaining because it IS the SAME as complaining about the different RACES.
  
  
  Think about it deeply before you respond. (to mine)
  And btw i don't like the idea of different races and classes. But i look at the grand scheme of things.
• Kazuni wrote on 2010-07-26 19:16
  They're turning mabinogi into maplestory.
  
  Imo, pure archers get practically nothing out of being in a class.
  Personally, I'm an elf. Sure, I can windmill, but hell, I never did rank that thing because I had everything else, for example, barrier spikes. I can't imagine being without barrier spikes against some strong monster or other. Sure I can go with wm pet, but it's just not as reassuring, load time and all.
  
  Staying in adventurer is just an excuse, because obviously there're going to be serious disadvantages later on. Class-only skills, quests, whatever.
  
  Point being, I feel like archers just got stuck in some random class because there was no room for them anywhere else.
  
  
  
  And after pouring a shizload of ap into magic, I can only use the basic bolts if I stick to what is by default my "class"?
  And the only extra skill bards get is some stupid lure of the ballad which only acts as an aggro sponge?
• JustNoOne wrote on 2010-07-26 19:28

  Quote from Aubog007;105382:

  Give human's mirage shot or final shot then.
  If they really wanted to stick with the plan there should only be ONE race.
  They broke that by adding races. Now they are adding classes.
  Give this one year and people will stop complaining because it IS the SAME as complaining about the different RACES.
  
  
  Think about it deeply before you respond. (to mine)
  And btw i don't like the idea of different races and classes. But i look at the grand scheme of things.

  
  
  As we well know, Giants, Elves and Humans do have different set of skills where those races has skills that are specific for them. These classes have skills specific for them or might later on have skills specific for them. You're asking me what's the difference between them? If I'm don't mind about races having a skill they can only use, why bother worrying about classes that have specific skills when you aren't concerned about races having specific skills. If this is the case, the section of text below will answer that.
  
  Skills that are bound by race can only be used by that race, and that race only. Classes skills are bound to their class and can only be used if you are of that class, the problem is that class skills are not bound by the race of the character. I can only achieve what is achievable, I cannot rank Stomp or Mirage Missile because I play the Human race, that is perfectly fine.
  
  On the other hand, skills such as Hailstorm and certain types of Mastery can be learned by all races, to be withheld because I am not a certain race is fine because it's understandable that these races do have their limitations, but to have skills that are not within grasp because of the type of class is nonsense.
  
  
  Like I said before, I wanted to be Jack of all trades, master of all. I can never be that with this implemented because if I am an Adventurer and I wanted to master Hailstorm, I am no longer a Jack of all trades because I specialize in magic and I cannot use certain skills, if I am a Jack of all Trades, I am not a master of all since I master Hailstorm since I don't have access to it, so it kinda messes with being the Jack of all Trades.
  
  I know this class system tries to make everything balanced, but as you look closer and closer at the smaller aspect of this grand scheme... it doesn't really work.
• Aubog007 wrote on 2010-07-26 19:33

  Quote from JustNoOne;105404:

  
  
  Like I said before, I wanted to be Jack of all trades, master of all. I can never be that with this implemented because if I am an Adventurer and I wanted to master Hailstorm, I am no longer a Jack of all trades because I specialize in magic and I cannot use certain skills, if I am a Jack of all Trades, I am not a master of all since I master Hailstorm since I don't have access to it, so it kinda messes with being the Jack of all Trades.
  
  I know this class system tries to make everything balanced, but as you look closer and closer at the smaller aspect of this grand scheme... it doesn't really work.

  
  
  Yea i wanted to be a jack of all trades as well too...
• Lan wrote on 2010-07-26 20:09
  Just wondering why exactly people are so adamant about Wizards having WM. The multiaggro situations that you are worrying about would really only occur in higher end dungeons :s By then most Wizards should have enough pet control experience to control aggro enough to charge a spell that could kill them all.
• Medusa wrote on 2010-07-26 20:49
  so, i have a question that i don't think anyone has addressed yet.
  do we even know if classes will be changeable with free rebirths?
  considering nexon, wouldn't it be in their best interest to make class changes available only for premium rebirths?
• JustNoOne wrote on 2010-07-26 20:51
  They are changeable with free rebirths.
• rzetlin wrote on 2010-07-26 21:01
  Is this class system in the test phase only?
  
  Is the class system optional?
  
  What is going to happen to all the existing players?