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Eliirae wrote on 2013-03-31 16:00
Quote from JoeyDee9;1058942:
Stat formula's make Ice spears, Firebolt, and Hailstorm weaker not stronger. And that's the problem they added 2 skills the majorly affect magic, any new player wouldn't struggle to get magic to the point of actually using it.
Honestly I accept this change but as a magician I do not like what they have done with it. They are hurting players that want to get into magic with instant cast and mobile cast since they now need more ap to do be useful. These skills and damage changes make ice spear and thunder almost useless end game compared to spammed fireball (Under the assumption that instant cast works the way we assume it does) and this meteor storm.
Needless to say, I'll hold my tongue on any more rigorous complaining until I can try it myself.
Stat formulas that might very well have been typo'd. Are these changes even on the KR test server yet? If DevCat listens to their players on the test server at all, they might catch and change the formula.
Also, here's a question: Is the formula for fireball different because you need all 5 charges to cast it, or does it use the exact same formula? If it uses the exact same formula, then wouldn't fireball get weaker, as well, assuming this new formula that doesn't add the bonus damage from magic attack to each charge past the first is intended.
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JoeyDee9 wrote on 2013-03-31 16:06
I'll repost my testing and my formula that I devised based off test server.
[Image: http://puu.sh/2lp9D]
The new formula is (base_damage*charge_multiplier)+(magic_attack*modifier)*mastery_bonus
I've confirmed that all damages on that chart match up with my test server character. I never did test thunder and did not have a staff to test Hailstorm.
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Kaeporo wrote on 2013-03-31 16:49
Quote from JoeyDee9;1058961:
I'll repost my testing and my formula that I devised based off test server.
[Image: http://puu.sh/2lp9D]
The new formula is (base_damage*charge_multiplier)+(magic_attack*modifier)*mastery_bonus
I've confirmed that all damages on that chart match up with my test server character. I never did test thunder and did not have a staff to test Hailstorm.
According to your results, it looks like my Ice Spear damage is going to drop by around 40~100% depending on the changes made to magic damage.
Nice buff.
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JoeyDee9 wrote on 2013-03-31 17:21
The thing is according to the patch notes a lot of percent increases are becoming static magic damage which future decreases the usefulness of int/magic attack on compounded spells.
In my opinion Mobile casting shouldn't cost AP it should be a part of all spells, instant cast should cost ~120 AP, and the damage multiplier for charge based spells should compound magic attack.
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M wrote on 2013-03-31 17:22
Quote from Kaeporo;1058985:
According to your results, it looks like my Ice Spear damage is going to drop by around 40~100% depending on the changes made to magic damage.
Nice buff.
seems closer to 20% to me, or maybe im looking at it wrong
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JoeyDee9 wrote on 2013-03-31 17:28
Assuming 1000 int it's a ~70% decrease, and that's before you upgrade gear add rosemaries or do anything else. Adding more magic attack will probably increase the difference in spell damage.
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FallenDanny wrote on 2013-03-31 17:34
My icebolt could pull off 700 crits with this update. :D
This does seem like an error though for fire bolt, ice spear, ect. But that's just my opinion.
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M wrote on 2013-03-31 17:39
Quote from JoeyDee9;1059018:
Assuming 1000 int it's a ~70% decrease, and that's before you upgrade gear add rosemaries or do anything else. Adding more magic attack will probably increase the difference in spell damage.
Oh, I see
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Slayerj wrote on 2013-03-31 17:47
Really, until they fix the magic damage formula, I wont be happy with anything they do :p...
But srsly (I was being serious :l), they did just add around 600-800 more AP (guessing with how much AP the skills cost) to magic's already high AP tab.
Rebalancing how much the skills cost AP wise would be a smart thing to do. I mean, for fucks sake, IS and hailstorm cost the SAME AP cost. >.> Something tells me bolts need to come down 10-30ap. Masteries either need to come down just a tad or cost less early on than they do now (even if it's by 1-2ap)
Ice Spear should be changed from 438 to 340.
Fireball should be changed from 383 to 360.
Thunder should be changed from 409 to 350.
Hailstorm should either stay the same, go down by 20ap, or go up by 10.
I mean, really, look at these AP costs. Fireball is supposed to be the strongest hitting INT magic, yet it takes less AP then thunder and IS? IS was recently nerfed a bit so you can't hit some mobs or splash to 'finish' mobs. Also even at 5 charges and rank 1 it doesn't always splash. As for Thunder anyone and their grandmother can interrupt it with how long it takes for the bolts to rain down. (Mean while Alch Thunder crystals do the main part of the attack ALMOST INSTANTLY). (Sure the thing with thunder is helpfull in that it stuns the mobs but when you're in a party most morons are like "HERP DERP 200-300dmg smash DERP")
Hailstorm may hit hard but you have to use 7 seconds to load, then charge, then pray to god you haven't been agroed yet/the mob is still in range =,=; XD So why was it ever the same AP cost as IS?
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JoeyDee9 wrote on 2013-03-31 18:17
Quote from Slayerj;1059037:
Really, until they fix the magic damage formula, I wont be happy with anything they do :p...
But srsly (I was being serious :l), they did just add around 600-800 more AP (guessing with how much AP the skills cost) to magic's already high AP tab.
Rebalancing how much the skills cost AP wise would be a smart thing to do. I mean, for fucks sake, IS and hailstorm cost the SAME AP cost. >.> Something tells me bolts need to come down 10-30ap. Masteries either need to come down just a tad or cost less early on than they do now (even if it's by 1-2ap)
Ice Spear should be changed from 438 to 340.
Fireball should be changed from 383 to 360.
Thunder should be changed from 409 to 350.
Hailstorm should either stay the same, go down by 20ap, or go up by 10.
I mean, really, look at these AP costs. Fireball is supposed to be the strongest hitting INT magic, yet it takes less AP then thunder and IS? IS was recently nerfed a bit so you can't hit some mobs or splash to 'finish' mobs. Also even at 5 charges and rank 1 it doesn't always splash. As for Thunder anyone and their grandmother can interrupt it with how long it takes for the bolts to rain down. (Mean while Alch Thunder crystals do the main part of the attack ALMOST INSTANTLY). (Sure the thing with thunder is helpfull in that it stuns the mobs but when you're in a party most morons are like "HERP DERP 200-300dmg smash DERP")
Hailstorm may hit hard but you have to use 7 seconds to load, then charge, then pray to god you haven't been agroed yet/the mob is still in range =,=; XD So why was it ever the same AP cost as IS?
In magics should be ~250 with the way all the new skills are being made. Along with reductions of masteries to ~100 and bolts to ~100 would balance out AP cost a little. I mean fusion bolt is nearly 300 ap...for a mastery skill. Magic AP costs are really astronomical compared to the other skillsets expecially the newer ones.
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Noel Vermillion wrote on 2013-03-31 18:35
Quote from Slayerj;1059037:
Really, until they fix the magic damage formula, I wont be happy with anything they do :p...
But srsly (I was being serious :l), they did just add around 600-800 more AP (guessing with how much AP the skills cost) to magic's already high AP tab.
Rebalancing how much the skills cost AP wise would be a smart thing to do. I mean, for fucks sake, IS and hailstorm cost the SAME AP cost. >.> Something tells me bolts need to come down 10-30ap. Masteries either need to come down just a tad or cost less early on than they do now (even if it's by 1-2ap)
Ice Spear should be changed from 438 to 340.
Fireball should be changed from 383 to 360.
Thunder should be changed from 409 to 350.
Hailstorm should either stay the same, go down by 20ap, or go up by 10.
I mean, really, look at these AP costs. Fireball is supposed to be the strongest hitting INT magic, yet it takes less AP then thunder and IS? IS was recently nerfed a bit so you can't hit some mobs or splash to 'finish' mobs. Also even at 5 charges and rank 1 it doesn't always splash. As for Thunder anyone and their grandmother can interrupt it with how long it takes for the bolts to rain down. (Mean while Alch Thunder crystals do the main part of the attack ALMOST INSTANTLY). (Sure the thing with thunder is helpfull in that it stuns the mobs but when you're in a party most morons are like "HERP DERP 200-300dmg smash DERP")
Hailstorm may hit hard but you have to use 7 seconds to load, then charge, then pray to god you haven't been agroed yet/the mob is still in range =,=; XD So why was it ever the same AP cost as IS?
I feel for you mages. All these new skills look like they could help, but it would be so daunting to a new player wanting to go into magic, that they would probably just go do fighter or something. :l
As for AP costs, I'm with you in thinking that basic bolts and masteries should all be below 100 AP, and that some ADV magics should have their costs knocked down a bit.
My idea for a thunder fix would be reducing the amount of time it takes for the bolts to rain down to 0.5 secs to 1 sec, and then when the monsters hit by anyone of the bolts, it gets affected by a debuff that stuns it for around...3 seconds giving you time to charge/plan.
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Kenero wrote on 2013-03-31 18:46
Quote from Noel Vermillion;1059060:
I feel for you mages. All these new skills look like they could help, but it would be so daunting to a new player wanting to go into magic, that they would probably just go do fighter or something. :l
As for AP costs, I'm with you in thinking that basic bolts and masteries should all be below 100 AP, and that some ADV magics should have their costs knocked down a bit.
My idea for a thunder fix would be reducing the amount of time it takes for the bolts to rain down to 0.5 secs to 1 sec, and then when the monsters hit by anyone of the bolts, it gets affected by a debuff that stuns it for around...3 seconds giving you time to charge/plan.
There's going to be an update on test soon, so we'll see if anything changes.
Heads up mages, you may shine very soon. =)
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FallenDanny wrote on 2013-03-31 18:52
Quote from Kenero;1059072:
There's going to be an update on test soon, so we'll see if anything changes.
Heads up mages, you may shine very soon. =)
I'm so excited! :D please keep us updated Kenero!
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Milk wrote on 2013-03-31 19:14
Quote from Kenero;1059072:
There's going to be an update on test soon, so we'll see if anything changes.
Heads up mages, you may shine very soon. =)
Please post it in a new thread when it updates :o This one getting abit full and since its new info it might as well be in a new one :3.
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Vejosa wrote on 2013-03-31 19:18
Pretty excited for this update, can't wait to test it out.