[Mabinogi] Zero Professor J Vate Update (Information Consolidated and Orginized)

• Tropa wrote on 2013-09-11 05:03

  Quote from Gensokyou;1146747:

  None of it takes away from the fact that i'm getting pretty excited for the hydra now.

  
  
  Everyone I know is, including me.
  
  I think it's perfect the way it is, I just wished Elemental wave effected it.
• Gensokyou wrote on 2013-09-11 05:04

  Quote from Tropa;1146749:

  Everyone I know is, including me.
  
  I think it's perfect the way it is, I just wished Elemental wave effected it.

  
  
  It doesn't? I thought that in one of the videos I saw someone used Golden time then Hydra right afterwards.
  
  Of course, that didn't mean it affected it...
• Syliara wrote on 2013-09-11 05:05

  Quote from Zekkii;1146743:

  I'm guessing you're referring to me. I have talked about one, and only one skill in this thread: hydra transmutation. Although I did call it crap, I established it does have a couple uses. The point being that it shouldn't be hyped up to be an amazing DPS skill. I do however, think that alchemy will still be subpar post-update, but that has nothing to do with what I said.
  
  The dragons move, so I wouldn't see it being particularly useful.

  
  
  Well, ive seen you post other things trying to discredit alchemic dmg after update which was my main point.... If I'm wrong and you do think that alchemy has viable end game dmg then by all means say so and I will disregard everything ive said thus far....
  
  

  Quote from Gensokyou;1146747:

  Right, I somehow thought it would have been directed at my statements about it being crap earlier on.
  
  I don't really want to start a big fight about it because it's something that can stir up a lot of opinions and emotions, so if you'd like to discuss it more then pm me?
  
  None of it takes away from the fact that i'm getting pretty excited for the hydra now.

  
  
  Honestly I feel like you think so too about alchemy, so if you'd like to take the post as directed at you thats fine because it can be directed at you with a little less hostility (if there is any)......
• Tally wrote on 2013-09-11 05:06

  Quote from Zekkii;1146711:

  Alright smart-ass, let's establish why it sucks:
  
  1. It's pure bleed damage, so by the time it does its weight in damage the target is typically dead 14 times over
  2. To get to the highest damage you need to wait an extra 15 seconds
  3. It has a small radius and it is immobile, and it doesn't stun monsters so they can literally just walk out of the radius before it gets any real damage in
  4. It can't get critical hits
  
  HM missions? Everything is dead before it does damage. Bandit Hunting? Everything is dead before it does damage. Commerce? Once again, everything is dead before it does damage. So where can we use this? I see TWO real uses for it. Use #1, you can save maybe 30 seconds every time Enemy Behind happens to comes up as daily. Use #2, reducing protection for MA. Other than that, it is better to use other skills that just wipe the map of alive monsters. If you want to use it then go ahead, but you don't need to pretend that any alchemy skill released is magically useful just because you like alchemy. Perhaps you wouldn't have to resort to such snide remarks of you had an actual argument.

  
  
  What you're assuming is a perfect AoE party. Puppeteer who can crisis the whole room, archer with reforged crash shot, etc. You don't always get the perfect party. Sometimes you don't even get a puppeteer to join your elite OA. Sometimes you get the guy who windmills everything away. Point is, these arguments are best case scenario. Not everyone has every skill at r1, and most people don't have the money for reforges. It also ignores that this skill would see a great use in boss fights, where it could see its full damage potential.
  
  
  Your argument also ignores the magic def/prot reduction, which is unprecedented, if I recall. This may not support the majority of the classes, but it certainly supports you and your mage friend. Assuming you are running a mission solo or going commercing/bandit hunting, this part especially will be a great help to you, because most, if not all, alchemic skills deal magic damage, if mana deflector is any indicator. The bleed damage is a bonus, of course. One that can amount to a large contribution over long fights.
  
  
  I can see the argument, of course. Burst AoE is a such a large force in the game right now that it might appear hard to fit in everything else. But what has been discussed is situations where everything is optimized, but we are also talking about a game. The optimal way to play the game might not always be fun.
• wildk wrote on 2013-09-11 05:06

  Quote from KomeijiSatori;1146746:

  Prairie and Desert Dragons move the most. Black and White Dragons tend to just stand in place most of the time. Red is weird.

  
  
  ^
  Black and White dragons are the most important ones anyway. If you wanna talk about alchemy in general as compared to other skillsets then honestly the only place where alchemy is useful are those raids.
  
  Alchemy doesn't finish stuff off, they just make things easier to kill. If you find all the game content too easy to OHKO then I can definitely say this is not something you'd be interested in. You're supposed to use alchemy because it's just.... useful
• Tropa wrote on 2013-09-11 05:07

  Quote from Gensokyou;1146750:

  It doesn't? I thought that in one of the videos I saw someone used Golden time then Hydra right afterwards.
  
  Of course, that didn't mean it affected it...

  
  
  It only gets used up by the glowing icons(HB/shock/frozen/lifedrain/golem).
  
  Though one time on KR live I was hit during Frozenwave animation, it went off but I still got to use Elemental-waved heatbuster right after.
• KomeijiSatori wrote on 2013-09-11 05:07
  Still wondering why it matters how much damage you do if you defeat the mobs anyway. Or is this just a giant ego fight for highest damage?
• Tropa wrote on 2013-09-11 05:09

  Quote from KomeijiSatori;1146755:

  Still wondering why it matters how much damage you do if you defeat the mobs anyway. Or is this just a giant ego fight for highest damage?

  
  
  Whats the point of hitting x8 higher then your target's heath?
  
  Do you gain a medal or anything?
• Zekkii wrote on 2013-09-11 05:11

  Quote from KomeijiSatori;1146746:

  Prairie and Desert Dragons move the most. Black and White Dragons tend to just stand in place most of the time. Red is weird.

  
  The last thing we'd want is 50 hydras in boss raids, but how would it actually pan out if there was and the dragon just stood there the entire time? Well I don't think that would be very effective. Hydra is meant as a minimal effort AOE DOT skill, it just can't compare to a barrage of single target skills. Most people would do 300 DPS after 18 seconds with hydra, tops. Something like Gen mentioned, a fighter or firebolt mage, could do 5000 DPS easily. So yes, while it might not be the worst idea to throw out a hydra it wouldn't exactly kill the dragon.
• Tally wrote on 2013-09-11 05:11

  Quote from Tropa;1146756:

  Whats the point of hitting x8 higher then your target's heath?
  
  Do you gain a medal or anything?

  
  
  Golem slayer with a single blow.
• wildk wrote on 2013-09-11 05:13

  Quote from Tropa;1146756:

  Whats the point of hitting x8 higher then your target's heath?
  
  Do you gain a medal or anything?

  
  
  XD I think the argument is that in the case that you don't manage to kill, then having a higher DPS will make it easier.
  
  But it's alchemy we're talking about here, alchemy is a support skillset anyway and its main features aren't DPS but in the skills itself. I wouldn't diss Hydra since imo Hydra main feature isnt meant to kill, but meant to lower magic def and prot. That alone is plenty use
• Tropa wrote on 2013-09-11 05:13

  Quote from Tally;1146758:

  Golem slayer with a single blow.

  
  
  Oh right!
  
  >goes into Other Alchemist basic and punches a golem
• wildk wrote on 2013-09-11 05:14

  Quote from Zekkii;1146757:

  The last thing we'd want is 50 hydras in boss raids, but how would it actually pan out if there was and the dragon just stood there the entire time? Well I don't think that would be very effective. Hydra is meant as a minimal effort AOE DOT skill, it just can't compare to a barrage of single target skills. Most people would do 300 DPS after 18 seconds with hydra, tops. Something like Gen mentioned, a fighter or firebolt mage, could do 5000 DPS easily. So yes, while it might not be the worst idea to throw out a hydra it wouldn't exactly kill the dragon.

  
  
  You're talking alchemy all wrong x.x If you're looking at alchemy you're looking at helping other players, which hydra is doing a fantastic job at by lowering magical def and prot and the rest of the alch skills doing what they do.
  
  Alchemy was never about DPS and I never hope it will
• Kaeporo wrote on 2013-09-11 05:15

  Quote from Tropa;1146756:

  Whats the point of hitting x8 higher then your target's heath?
  
  Do you gain a medal or anything?

  
  
  The difference is the rate at which you dispatch targets and clear content. If completing objectives with minimal resource investment is your goal, then you'll want to utilize whatever best enables you to do so in the most efficient manner.
  
  Also, elemental wave acts like heat buster concerning skill execution interruption, to some degree.
• Gensokyou wrote on 2013-09-11 05:17

  Quote from Pureblooded;1146751:

  Honestly I feel like you think so too about alchemy, so if you'd like to take the post as directed at you thats fine because it can be directed at you with a little less hostility (if there is any)......

  
  
  Yeah. I've noticed that sometimes it's better to just bite your tongue to try and avoid hostilities because it's not always worth it. My main issue is misinformation, because the older and more experienced players know enough to make up your mind, but the newbies can be swayed easily. Even when I make a recommendation I try my best to outline that it won't be the best for everything. I honestly don't want to start a fight about it in this topic because i'd rather give the update the attention it deserves (GLORIOUS HYDRA), so if you would like to talk about it to me then feel free to pm me. ^^
  
  

  Quote from Tropa;1146754:

  It only gets used up by the glowing icons(HB/shock/frozen/lifedrain/golem).
  
  Though one time on KR live I was hit during Frozenwave animation, it went off but I still got to use Elemental-waved heatbuster right after.

  
  
  It kinda sounds like the lag you get when skills fail to go off but the cooldown resets, except in reverse. Could be a potentially useful tactic for laggy alchemists? ;o
  
  Now, as to a kind of important question that I didn't see any answers to in the OP (And apologies if it is there and I missed it): Where do you get these guard cylinders from?