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Kaon wrote on 2010-08-18 12:50
Hmm, a few notes, in no particular order, from the perspective of an elf who melees.
First, elves only get .5 str gain per level at age 18+... prior to that they only get .25. So for optimal str gain... well I do weeklies and rb right before noon on saturday... so I can do all my leveling at 18 o3o.
Shield... yeah, the defense boost is nice, doesn't match heavy armor tho. Ping is nice too... still doesn't match having heavy armor. But having charge at easy access at all times is very nice. As well as light armor + acc having higher damage potential than heavy armor.... which is really what you should be going for on an elf mainly, especially with lack of natural melee strength. If you like tanking then elf shouldn't be your first choice. (not that I don't tank anyway, elves can totally do it)
As for the warhammer build... well, I highly recommend the 200 build over the 180-2 build. The extra 20 crit is well worth the loss of 3 max damage, especially since a melee elf will have to heavily rely on smash to deal effective damage, and where that really shines is when you can actually crit. That build also outdoes a broadsword for crit, as well as max, so any elf that can be using it, should. (aside from personal preference o3o;; swords are cool too)
From an end-game perspective, it's doable to have 250-260+ max and 90-100% crit, which is really what you need to be able to function with elf melee in hard shadow missions. A gladius ego can boost that damage even higher as well. (personally I ego'd a bastardsword cause I like wm... o3o, but then again, I don't main melee either. But my primary melee weapon is a 200 build Cypress Spike Warhammer)
Overall tho, I would heavily advise hybrid over pure.... in any case lol. But that's been said plenty lol.
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Zid wrote on 2010-08-18 13:56
Elves having lower HP and Defense in their end-game stats suggest that Melee Elves are far better with the Low HP build.
Also, it's not accurate to compare Melee Elves with Ranged Humans as just trade-offs. Melee Elves are just weaker than Melee Humans, while Ranged Humans are weaker and play differently than Ranged Elves.
And technically, the best one-handed weapon in terms of max dmg for Elves is the War Sword. But that's much more difficult to obtain than Warhammer.
Brionac isn't an end-all solution to Melee Elves and two-handed weapons. Unless you pump out AP and like to spend it per repair point, plus rank up Shock to r1. devCAT was really lenient on letting Elves being able to use Brionac as a 2h, but it's still severely handicapped.
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Fumy wrote on 2010-08-18 14:13
Doing melee on your Elf is a waste of AP just rank Summon Golem and Alchemy Mastery a Golem hits harder than a maxed out Melee Elf :S
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Okitaru wrote on 2010-08-18 14:52
I'm finding some of this to be flawed, on a def or a prot build you can makeup the losses with enchanted accessories (But that is a pretty iffy thing to do, but hey, people have found other ways to waste money for less).
And I believe endgame so far a human still goes over better with melee than a giant, but exclusive skills on any of the races keep it to be a different way to say "better". (Just wanted to say that since I went through and did the math on that a few months ago)
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Kiyobi wrote on 2010-08-18 15:23
Quote from Fumy;129800:
Doing melee on your Elf is a waste of AP just rank Summon Golem and Alchemy Mastery a Golem hits harder than a maxed out Melee Elf :S
You're also a sitting duck.
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Fumy wrote on 2010-08-18 15:30
Quote from Kiyobi;129824:
You're also a sitting duck.
Barriers or you can WM infront of your char Golem Windmill range is big :S
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Kyouriharu wrote on 2010-08-18 15:31
With my Warhammer, I can hit up to 230 max damage. Higher than most mid-game humans. However, ranged is always the preferred option because of 260 max paired with 83% critical, and that damage is doubled with elf ranged. All in all, I only use melee as a filler for the most part. Mainly because Charge to Smash is scary powerful, even as an elf.
Also, yeah Golem is pretty awesomesauce. Pulling out continuous 5k Smashes is nothing to laugh at. However, it does get the Golem nerf where Golem kills won't give exp so I wouldn't rely on it in the future.
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Schezo wrote on 2010-08-18 15:42
Would it be okay for me to say I witnessed an Elven FURIOUS Windmill master? (I DIDN'T TAKE PICS T.T)
Thats proof enough that elves can hurt things!
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Fumy wrote on 2010-08-18 15:45
Quote from Keiko;129828:
Would it be okay for me to say I witnessed an Elven FURIOUS Windmill master? (I DIDN'T TAKE PICS T.T)
Thats proof enough that elves can hurt things!
Doesn't prove anything except that someone was bored enough to get master title :3
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Kaon wrote on 2010-08-18 16:20
Quote from Zid;129796:
Also, it's not accurate to compare Melee Elves with Ranged Humans as just trade-offs. Melee Elves are just weaker than Melee Humans, while Ranged Humans are weaker and play differently than Ranged Elves.
And technically, the best one-handed weapon in terms of max dmg for Elves is the War Sword. But that's much more difficult to obtain than Warhammer.
Brionac isn't an end-all solution to Melee Elves and two-handed weapons. Unless you pump out AP and like to spend it per repair point, plus rank up Shock to r1. devCAT was really lenient on letting Elves being able to use Brionac as a 2h, but it's still severely handicapped.
Melee elves are definitely weaker than melee humans, but range human's actual 1-for-1 damage is pretty similar to elf. Just lower dps cause of load times.
As far as warsword vs hammer, yeah it's higher damage but, lower crit and less stun.... not really worth the extra few points. And a high grade monster drop warhammer could match it in pure damage anyway.
And brionac... it's silly to really even consider it a viable main weapon lol.
Quote from Chuugoku;129810:
I'm finding some of this to be flawed, on a def or a prot build you can makeup the losses with enchanted accessories (But that is a pretty iffy thing to do, but hey, people have found other ways to waste money for less).
Accessories do help a lot. I'd have to say the greatest asset elves have for tanking tho is mana shield... with a higher possible mana pool, especially in trans.
Quote from Fumy;129830:
Doesn't prove anything except that someone was bored enough to get master title :3
And, you know, dan title. Is fun when you go to a wm dan as an elf and the giants wonder how they lost o3o.
And to address golems... yeah, they're effective.... maybe this is just a preference thing, but having run stuff with decent golems, I'd much rather just hit things myself, and I'd much rather have an actual char fighting alongside me. More reliable. Suppose it'd depend on what I was doing tho.
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Vanof wrote on 2010-08-18 19:21
I made little adjustments here and there to correct some things~ Also sorry for the age strength growth problem, fixed it!
Added a disclaimer so people know exactly what the guide was intended for, as well.
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Phanterz wrote on 2010-08-19 00:29
Quote from Fumy;129800:
Doing melee on your Elf is a waste of AP just rank Summon Golem and Alchemy Mastery a Golem hits harder than a maxed out Melee Elf :S
Golem windmill (Finishes mob) + switch back to character + move around on horse + put up counter + Switch back to golem, etc
Nty
Though I'd say that golem is more OP for elves than any other race because they can hide while using it :V
I think melee for an elf only comes after range and/or magic.
There are a few serious disadvantages for melee elves:
20% less damage at WM r1
^Since smash has an abysmal load time you'll have to rely on that.
Must use 1H Weapon (this is about 70-90 less max damage)
Can't use smashmill
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Yah wrote on 2010-08-19 00:30
A melee elf was a fun project.
[Image: http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb298/yonshihn/mabinogi_2010_08_19_002.jpg]
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Arsik wrote on 2010-08-19 01:04
They're good and fun if you think of them as a novelty class (they can function on their own, but will eventually be severely outclassed endgame). When I was pretty much the only Melee Elf in NA and getting ridiculed for my decision to go that path, it was fun. I enjoyed the kiting ability that I had, and with R6 Charge, I could get into battle faster than any other party member. But then everyone decided to make a Melee Elf, and (along with the fact I had three characters that were melee at the time) just got tired of it. I was no longer unique, and it got boring, so I retired my Melee Elf, just having him rebirth to 10 to farm AP for that rare occasion where I pick him up to play.
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Kaon wrote on 2010-08-19 03:23
Quote from Phanterz;130290:
Golem windmill (Finishes mob) + switch back to character + move around on horse + put up counter + Switch back to golem, etc
Nty
Though I'd say that golem is more OP for elves than any other race because they can hide while using it :V
I think melee for an elf only comes after range and/or magic.
There are a few serious disadvantages for melee elves:
20% less damage at WM r1
^Since smash has an abysmal load time you'll have to rely on that.
Must use 1H Weapon (this is about 70-90 less max damage)
Can't use smashmill
You can totally smashmill. Just easier to mess it up.