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Shirayuki wrote on 2010-08-21 04:47
Quote from Kazuni;132533:
That's really just because of the double arrow...
If elves could only shoot one arrow, the DPS would be similar. The dex gain from skills is too close.
The only advantages they really have are the double arrow and slightly faster aim time. The 0.5 magnum load also helps.
Isn't elven aim time 200% and human's 300%? Not really an advantage...
But melee elves aren't really that good to use as a main damage dealer, but better to use when you need to play defensively or something.
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Chillax wrote on 2010-08-21 04:48
Quote from Kazuni;132540:
Then again, I'm just talking about the easier-to-obtain and common methods.
I'm not familiar with melee anyways.
But to get a dragon shield to make up for any defense lost due to heavy armor.. would be too much, imo.
Buying a set of heavy armor...
Buying a dragon shield...
It's no contest, really.
I'm not saying the shield will make up for the defense. I'm just saying you can get the same amount of PD.
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Hiccup wrote on 2010-08-21 05:07
Yes you wont ever get the same amount of PD/def/protection from equipment as a human, but it doesn't hinder melee elves. :I
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Kazuni wrote on 2010-08-21 05:16
Quote from Bieber;132557:
Yes you wont ever get the same amount of PD/def/protection from equipment as a human, but it doesn't hinder melee elves. :I
I didn't say it did...
I was picking at things from the OP.
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Hiccup wrote on 2010-08-21 05:18
There's like 5 pages of people going back and forth about it though ;_;
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Rose wrote on 2010-08-21 13:58
Who said Elves have a five dexterity different between Humans?
Seriously.
ALL-IN-ALL it comes down to a end of game build.
Elf Mage = Rape
Human Mage = I'm assuming rape, but i was told Trigger would, if he could turn into a Elf (Not sure if that's true...) So i'm uncertain if it's as good as it should be.
Elf Ranger = Well, its hard to tell, yeah sure we might fail tanking and ect, but .5Second load time for Magnum is just....well, tasty. We also have +30Dex Title (Master of Final Shot) We also have Mirage (Some people would call it nooby, but it really does help out in those later ranks) I guess, we are mostly dependent on good connection, but with 5MBPS (Uncapped/Throttled) in Australia, i'm doing pretty fine. (:P)
Human Ranger = I'm hopefully not acting like i know about everything, but what else can i say? Reliant upon AR, Really....Sure I've seen some decent damage being pumped out with R1 Range, but it seems to me to be reliant on nice life skills (Or awesome enchants/weapons, ect), you guys also get Heavy Armour and nicer tanking abilities
Elf Meleee = Not that i have any Hands on experience with this, however....One of my guildys is a bit of a Melee Elf, Muramasa Ego, working on carpentry, ect. Although i admit, i personally wouldn't delve to far into this, it still looks like a good place to start, but what else can i say? At the end of the day, we get butt slammed by Humans.
Human Melee = The start of humans was used with this build, you have two-hands, dual weilding and just general Mess****upatitus
Just a Summary: Elves might look cool doing Melee, but our real strength lies in Maging or Ranging, regardless what the rest of you think, this is my opinion.
I've summed it down to what i think, enjoy? :P
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Fumy wrote on 2010-08-21 14:39
I said Elves only have 5 more dex than Humans :3 and don't talk to me about elf archery till you reached 400 dex mkay? :D 'cause that's what I have. If you doubt me go check yourself :3 Dex from skills is only 5 dex more than what Humans get from skills
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EndlessDreams wrote on 2010-08-21 16:38
Shield doesn't make up for anything. Humans can hold the shield just as well as an elf.
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Kaeporo wrote on 2010-08-21 17:37
Quote from EndlessDreams;132804:
Shield doesn't make up for anything. Humans can hold the shield better than an elf.
Fixed.
Magic: Humans make bulkier tanks end-game, elves spend less on ice spear
Range: Arrow Revolver is a reliable skill. Elves have improved DPS and flexibility
Melée: Unlike range which is largely "separate but equal", elven melée is crippled compared to human/giant melée.
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Rose wrote on 2010-08-21 18:19
Quote from Fumy;132768:
I said Elves only have 5 more dex than Humans :3 and don't talk to me about elf archery till you reached 400 dex mkay? :D 'cause that's what I have. If you doubt me go check yourself :3 Dex from skills is only 5 dex more than what Humans get from skills
Yah i have 5000 Str aswell, SO U DUN B TLKN NO SHET 2 MI!
Screenshot or it didn't happen.
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Arsik wrote on 2010-08-21 18:20
Even though I got tired of my Melee Elf, I love how everyone is saying that Melee Elves are very crippled compared to their counterparts. You want crippled? Play a Ranged Giant, and tell me whether you want to continue playing that or a Melee Elf. :P
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Fumy wrote on 2010-08-21 18:59
Quote from CableCrook;132871:
Yah i have 5000 Str aswell, SO U DUN B TLKN NO SHET 2 MI!
Screenshot or it didn't happen.
Look it up :3 5 Dex difference btw after looking it up and noticing that you failed hard at trying to argue with me please go back to ranking your skills before you start talking :D
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Kaon wrote on 2010-08-21 21:01
Quote from Fumy;132933:
Look it up :3 5 Dex difference btw after looking it up and noticing that you failed hard at trying to argue with me please go back to ranking your skills before you start talking :D
Okay, regarding what you said earlier... zero shot is unreliable, and heavily resource intensive as compared to other kill methods. Especially defensively. I could argue that a range oriented elf should just be mag spamming everything.... with that kind of dex and good enchants, you should be able to one shot hard shadow missions monsters with a crit, if not some of the weaker ones without.
But at the same time, I can do that with smash... as an elf. So obviously it works.
Really.. regardless of what's effective, what bugs me is that you're far too closed-minded. You're missing the point of debate entirely, and you're just trying to tell everyone what you think is right... not really listening to their points much.
And to top it all off, you say rank your skills before talking? You just spent the whole thread talking about elf melee and obviously haven't ranked it. Come back when you've maxed it and see if you still have the same opinion.
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Fumy wrote on 2010-08-21 21:03
Sorry but to increase my dex I had to rank almost all Combat skills everything that's left is Def, Smash, Charge :3 and well I don't zero shoot I just spam Mag lol... but well saying melee is an option for close combat zero shoot also is
Also I've seen lvl 5xx Humans dealing more damage than maxed out Melee Elves :3
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Kaon wrote on 2010-08-21 21:14
Quote from Fumy;133034:
Sorry but to increase my dex I had to rank almost all Combat skills everything that's left is Def, Smash, Charge :3 and well I don't zero shoot I just spam Mag lol... but well saying melee is an option for close combat zero shoot also is
Also I've seen lvl 5xx Humans dealing more damage than maxed out Melee Elves :3
An option... sure I'll give you that. But I can top a 5xx human for damage with just melee, I guarantee you. Plus a human at that level would be seriously lacking the skill ranks to keep up the damage/crit ratio required for hard missions. Not that they can even do them. But if we want to limit it to what sort of crit they'd have (30% for wm) then I can do that too.
[Image: http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/5815/mabinogi20100821002.jpg]
And I don't even have carpentry done (only r9), or perfect ancient darkness (6/12 vic/darkness currently). (ego is weak atm tho, only 1 max better than my goddess spike 10-90 warhammer, and only str lvl 33)
300max damage melee for an elf is completely possible for an elf my level.
But when it comes down to it, imo, a good elf should at least be able to melee decently as a secondary, for when they encounter things range can't do anything to.