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Robinhood wrote on 2014-04-16 04:15
Quote from Zeo;1215231:
While I still am hoping for Ninja to be Dex/Int based.
My best friend said it's going to be Dex/Luck based, and I'm still waiting for the source from her.
But I would be pretty happy with Dex/Luck, because it still gives elves the biggest advantage.
[s](please don't kill me, mods, for still discussing things about elves)[/s]
If it is dex/luck based I'm going to have to get back to grinding for dex. It's my lowest stat after luck.
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Zekkii wrote on 2014-04-16 04:43
Quote from Zeo;1215231:
While I still am hoping for Ninja to be Dex/Int based.
My best friend said it's going to be Dex/Luck based, and I'm still waiting for the source from her.
But I would be pretty happy with Dex/Luck, because it still gives elves the biggest advantage.
[s](please don't kill me, mods, for still discussing things about elves)[/s]
That's the word on the grapevine, and I don't like it one bit. It just means free playing humans, such as myself, will get another skillset free of stat gain through levels. I'm not so optimistic for for free rebirths either, especially considering how this sort of thing has been treated in the past.
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Aubog007 wrote on 2014-04-16 08:13
If it's luck based, i will be the most OP ninja.
Also humans > elves/giants in luck.
Level 100/20 at age 10 under merchant destiny, or perhaps that hero talent.
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Zekkii wrote on 2014-04-16 09:15
Quote from Aubog007;1215317:
If it's luck based, i will be the most OP ninja.
Also humans > elves/giants in luck.
Level 100/20 at age 10 under merchant destiny, or perhaps that hero talent.
Humans can't have 0.75 dex and luck per level though, so the point seems moot. Elves would be best overall, unless it were purely luck.
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Ryufujibayashi wrote on 2014-04-16 15:57
I think there's a chance it could be purely luck based... the skill set is said to be beginner friendly and beginner friendly skill sets normally have one contributing attribute, while the more advance ones have 2 contributing attributes. Sadly I would have to grind merchant skills a lot if it is luck based only, unless they changed the scaling somehow or revamp the luck system :'( if the skill set is luck/dex I think they will end up somehow scaling luck or revamping the luck system. They could probably change it to where people gain luck from levels as well. Meh, too much possibilities to consider, I'll just wait a day or two for more details I suppose. >3<
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Azareel wrote on 2014-04-16 16:37
Skipping through most pages.
Quote from Ardmona;1214697:
Dex/Luck like Maplestory? Or Dex/Str I don't see how any others make sense.
Dex/Will makes the most sense, to me. Focused and lethal.
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RegisAreus wrote on 2014-04-16 17:31
I think it might be dex+will, and hope it might be those 2 stats to. Iono it just kinda make sense like what the above post said. On the side note *starts saving up ap* Words can not express how excited I am for this!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:cheer:
Also this made my day after losing 2 items from the crash earlier today.... *sighs* that maxed crit dowra.......
:imdead:
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Aubog007 wrote on 2014-04-16 18:32
Quote from Zekkii;1215325:
Humans can't have 0.75 dex and luck per level though, so the point seems moot. Elves would be best overall, unless it were purely luck.
What. Elves cant get .75 luck.
+ lol young elves. I never see those.
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Homucifer wrote on 2014-04-16 19:04
Quote from Aubog007;1215399:
What. Elves cant get .75 luck.
+ lol young elves. I never see those.
Humans can get .5 dex and .75 luck at age 10 on leveling.
Elves can get .75 dex and .5 luck at age 10 on leveling.
So doesn't that mean Elf/Human > Giant with elves having a slightly higher advantage over humans do to more dex through skills?
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Ryufujibayashi wrote on 2014-04-16 19:42
Quote from Homucifer;1215404:
Humans can get .5 dex and .75 luck at age 10 on leveling.
Elves can get .75 dex and .5 luck at age 10 on leveling.
So doesn't that mean Elf/Human > Giant with elves having a slightly higher advantage over humans do to more dex through skills?
Yeah if that's the case I think if a human and elf were lower level and starting out elf would have the advantage, but at higher levels I think the human would surpass the elf. But if this is the stat combination they go with we don't know whether or not they will scale luck or give it some sort of multipliers... and we don't know how much luck or dex will be given with each skill or if there's more skills that give out more of one stat than another. Honestly at the moment there's so much stuff to put into consideration especially if they go the luck route.
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Osu wrote on 2014-04-16 19:54
Quote from Ryufujibayashi;1215411:
Yeah if that's the case I think if a human and elf were lower level and starting out elf would have the advantage, but at higher levels I think the human would surpass the elf. But if this is the stat combination they go with we don't know whether or not they will scale luck or give it some sort of multipliers... and we don't know how much luck or dex will be given with each skill or if there's more skills that give out more of one stat than another. Honestly at the moment there's so much stuff to put into consideration especially if they go the luck route.
It honestly looks like they haven't made -any- racial differences in skills for a little while now.. I kind of don't expect them to again, so with that.. elves will always have the slight advantage of the 12 more dex or whatever the number is. I honestly don't see them doing anything extravagant like making so much luck and so much dex(of separate values) account for parts of adding max.. it'll probably be the usual 3.5 per whatever stat or something along those lines..
Even if it's Japan's idea it is indeed still Korea's development, so.. I wouldn't expect anything too fancy in the damage calculations.
But we'll see~
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Homucifer wrote on 2014-04-16 20:51
Yea if it is luck + dex then elves will always have the advantage in ninja skills even at lower and higher levels. Giants however..
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Kapra wrote on 2014-04-16 22:20
Quote from Ryufujibayashi;1215363:
I think there's a chance it could be purely luck based... the skill set is said to be beginner friendly and beginner friendly skill sets normally have one contributing attribute, while the more advance ones have 2 contributing attributes. Sadly I would have to grind merchant skills a lot if it is luck based only, unless they changed the scaling somehow or revamp the luck system :'( if the skill set is luck/dex I think they will end up somehow scaling luck or revamping the luck system. They could probably change it to where people gain luck from levels as well. Meh, too much possibilities to consider, I'll just wait a day or two for more details I suppose. >3<
A luck based skillset would require little if any changing. Luck barely effects anything it touches but Critical, its pretty useless in almost all other senses. As I explained earlier in this thread:
Quote from Kapra;1214793:
[SPOILER="Argument as to why a Luck-based skillset is not not viable (not an argument as to why a luck based skillset is viable)"]Right now, Humans can get 616 base will excluding GM talents. Before Fighter and all skills that have came since, you got 371 less will than that, putting you at 245 will excluding level ups/age ups.
Currently, excluding level ups, age ups, and GM talents, you can get 112 luck, a little less than half of how much will was available prior to Fighter, but still not by much.
That being said, I don't think the lack of access to luck is a sufficient argument as to why there could not be a luck based skillset.
What has bothered me about implementation of a luck skillset is how it would effect other things effected by luck. I will list each of the arguments individually.
- Critical. Critical clearly is not an issue, considering they added 371 will, which is an extra 37.1 critical added as player obtainable. However, a more valid argument would be, assuming more luck alone is good or more will alone is good, if more of both (which would be the case since we're not losing that 371 will) would be game breaking. If that becomes the case, they will do what they did in Zero/Enlightenment with Balance and Deadly Rate to Critical, where lower critical means more than higher critical.
- The formula for lucky gathers and huge lucky gathers have always been my main concern, that is until I actually saw the formula.
- Lucky Gather: LUCK/2,000
- Huge Lucky Gather (21 items): LUCK/50,000
Think about that, if you have 112 luck, then that is a 5.6% chance of a regular lucky gather, and .224% chance of a 21 huge lucky gather. I don't really think adding another 371 luck like they did for will would be too gamebreaking, but a more valid argument would be if a luck based combat skill set provide better for high gathering than gathering skills themselves. But this is only assuming they add hundreds of luck and don't scale damage to like every 2 luck is 3 damage, or something like that.
- Theatre Mission Pass creation - Who cares, a higher success rate after ranking a skillset isn't exactly something I would look down upon.
- Passive evasion rate, we do not currently know the formula for passive evasion. NA Nexon has said that every 10 luck is 1%, though this has been proven to have been false from testing, and no other server has ever claimed this but NA. The same article that said that 10 luck is 1% passive evasion also had a number of other errors. True we don't know the rate of passive evasion, but in my experience it is still extremely low.
We could argue that it would be OP that ranking a specific skillset unrelated to survivability makes you survivable, but that argument went out the roof when they added Fighter. Fighter scales on will and provides a few hundred will, but deadly rate also scales on will and is something used to increase survivability. Therefore Fighter is to Deadly Rate as _insert_luck_based_skillset_ is to Evasion Rate. However, they did see this as imbalanced, so they balanced it in Zero/Enlightenment, where low amounts of will means +1 will is a huge difference, whereas high amounts of will makes it so +1 will is still a difference but not a very noticeable one. Thus, like the Critical argument, if it gets gamebreaking they have shown to in the past and will balance it, and this is easily balanced.
So that covers all the valid arguments I have seen, and pretty much all of them are based upon either "there is not enough luck", which is shot down, or "adding more luck would be game breaking", it is not necessary to add TOO much more luck to create a luck based skillset.[/SPOILER]
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Ryufujibayashi wrote on 2014-04-16 22:59
Quote from Kapra;1215437:
A luck based skillset would require little if any changing. Luck barely effects anything it touches but Critical, its pretty useless in almost all other senses. As I explained earlier in this thread:
:O Hey thanks! This was very informative. :)
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nana wrote on 2014-04-17 06:34
[Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_jAbizH9OM]
so today was just for this crappy video...
also nexon jp, don't know why, erase all the ninja skill data from pack file now.
i suppose theyre going to add some more tweaks to its skill before implementation. (which is on June)
following is what they used to have for Syuriken Mastery Description(translated)
[SPOILER="spoiler"]
While Syuriken is equipped
Add 20 Melee Max Damage
Add 10 Melee Min Damage
Attack Range 13m
[/SPOILER]