-
Syliara wrote on 2014-04-30 21:49
Quote from Perfectio;1217967:
Also Druid and Vate were buffs to single classes.
Singing was a buff to every class that benefits from max damage (because of even easier Overture) and Catering is largely a buff to everyone, not just the Cooking talent (though it has the smallest benefit to mages and alchemists and the biggest benefit to puppeteers, fighters, gunners and lancers)
What? Vate could easily buff anything that can be used with a shield. And druid's buff allowed people who barely use magic to clear content extremely quickly.
-
BecomeMeguca wrote on 2014-04-30 22:52
Festive food + battle field overture combined....dear god
-
Zekkii wrote on 2014-05-01 01:29
I'm pretty sure everyone knew that Catering was just another mindless buff to stack with a laundry list of other ones, none of which we really need since content is already pathetically easy. The most broken part about it is that it in no way scales with actual damage, so a beginner player can literally double their damage after eating some NPC food.
-
Darkboy132 wrote on 2014-05-01 05:16
So what's wrong with Catering...?
-
Kaeporo wrote on 2014-05-01 13:04
I still believe that AOE pets are the biggest issue.
Reforges, food effects, damage from new skills/enchants/etc, Special Upgrades, Pierce and Battlefield Overture are all methods of increasing damage output. You need a number of these items in order to trivialize the meta-game. AOE pets heavily reduce opportunity cost, enabling players to forgo defensive tactics as summoning negates emerging threats and forgives lousy play.
Mabinogi without reforges and no other changes is a game where groups of players spam AOE pets, permanently stunning mannequins as they deal massively bloated damage.
Mabinogi without AOE pets and no other changes is a game where groups of players use specific skill sets and elements of team work to permanently stun mannequins as they deal massively bloated damage.
-
Kingofrunes wrote on 2014-05-01 13:19
Ice Spear and Blaze are far from AP.
There's the charging cost associated with it, the time it takes to charge it, and it's highly situational at best. At worst ice spear will piss off your team mates due to them being unable to attack the enemy. Also is going to give you a hard time on mobs with mana reflector.
Reforges on the other hand, those are the real overpowered aspects, AoE pets can be used for cheap ends if you heavily abuse it (I try to limit their use to things that just plain annoy me)
-
Zekkii wrote on 2014-05-01 14:38
Quote from Darkboy132;1218100:
So what's wrong with Catering...?
It's just another thinly veiled buff that we don't need. From now on, people can sustain over 200 more of any given stat. Sort of like a mini-overture.
-
Tropa wrote on 2014-05-01 17:55
Quote from Darkboy132;1218100:
So what's wrong with Catering...?
For a small amount of AP and around 8500 gold, you can have this instant buff with minimal costs.
[Image: http://i.imgur.com/vkcr4Lv.jpg?1?6938]
-
Username wrote on 2014-05-01 18:04
The most overpowered aspect is not Reforges or Magic. Catering might help cut it close but the real issue is the fact that the servers give monster stutter lag and they litterally do nothing.
This promotes less skill and involvement in the game. Allows everything to be easy.
-
EndlessDreams wrote on 2014-05-01 21:04
Quote from Kaeporo;1218181:
I still believe that AOE pets are the biggest issue.
Not to mention that even if the person have money, they cannot buy certain pets unless it comes up as limited release again. Reforges can be brought. Skills can be ranked.
Imagine how much control of the battle you have with a dozen Bone Dragons, Clouds, and Ice Dragons.
-
Perfectio wrote on 2014-05-01 21:20
Does anyone have a dozen dragons/clouds/scooters? At all?
I feel like the whole "20 ICE DRAGONS XDDD!!!111!" thing is almost purely theoretical. Maybe 5 people in all servers have that many OP pets?
I think AOE pet spam is the most broken thing in theory, but in practice it's so rare it barely registers. That's why Overture (and now festival food) takes the prize. Reforges require moderate to massive gold investment. Skills require moderate to massive time investment, especially as you move closer to the cap. They're balanced because the power requires effort. The issue with those is that we need to scale content to match the power that effort provides (though becoming an unstoppable engine of death in your chosen skillset is fun in its own right I guess) Battlefield Overture and Catering are different in that they give massive amounts of power for very, very little effort (as well as warping skillset balance quite a bit because some skillsets benefit much more than others).
Basically, there are 3 categories at play here:
Balanced OP:
High Stats from new skills
Reforges/other gear upgradres
These are balanced because they require effort, investment and in some cases luck. The issue isthat the content isn't scaled to those yet.
Broken/Toxic/ OP:
Overture
Catering
These are unbalanced because they provide lots of power for very little effort and cost, and in most cases can be maintained practically infinitely (when is the last time you ahven't had Overture up)
Broken because of too much map control:
Act 6
AOE Pets past a certain number
Lullaby especially with Singing
Raincasting
These make it too easy to immobilize enemies and negate their threat to you long enough to destroy them.
-
Slayerj wrote on 2014-05-01 22:19
Yeah I'm with you all. This game is too fucking easy with skills we don't have to use. Let's just remove puppet and bard from the game. Ya know something else I think that's broken? We can level up in missions and stuff. Mobs can't level up (besides a few), that makes it so easy and broken. Let's take that out. You can only level up on the field. The amount of stats we can get too is way to high. Let's make the cap 50 for each stat and 150 for hp/mp/sp. In fact, let's just remove level ups. You get your stats from age up only and you only get 1 ap from a rebirth. Everything else comes from long quests that don't give any exp. We also shouldn't be able to deadly if an attack would kill us from above half hp. That's so stupid. Let's get rid of mounts too and reduce everyone's movement speed to human speed. That way no ones OP in movement speed/with pet mount speed.
But seriously, why the hell is talk of what needs to be nerfed and shit still going on? I used to hear people left and right say "Play this game your way. Do what you want to to have fun." Now all I hear is "NERF X AND X AND X THING BECAUSE IT'S TOO GOOD AND STRONG AND CHEAP AND IT APPARENTLY EFFECTS HOW I PLAY THE GAME AND KEEPS ME FROM HAVING FUN!!!!"
Risk of Rain just got one of the most broken updates. You can chose any item you want if you want to, taking out the random element. You can make it so you deal 500% more dmg from the start AND choice your items to negate the 10% of you hp only part. Do you HAVE to? No. Can you use this to have even more fun? Yes. If you don't have fun with it is someone putting a god damn gun to your head and forcing you? No.
Here's my question for anyone screaming nerf so and so. Are you using these methods? Are you still having fun? Would you stop using these methods/start using them to have more fun? Are you having ANY fun with this game anymore regardless? (If not then leave, no one's forcing you to stay and nothings going to change just for you. It's alright to think up little buff/nerfs for things, but don't start preaching it to the world and screaming about it every chance you get.)
Just play the damn game the way you want to play it. Simple as that.
-
Zeo wrote on 2014-05-02 00:05
Quote from Slayerj;1218250:
[SPOILER="spoil'd to avoid extended post lel"]Yeah I'm with you all. This game is too fucking easy with skills we don't have to use. Let's just remove puppet and bard from the game. Ya know something else I think that's broken? We can level up in missions and stuff. Mobs can't level up (besides a few), that makes it so easy and broken. Let's take that out. You can only level up on the field. The amount of stats we can get too is way to high. Let's make the cap 50 for each stat and 150 for hp/mp/sp. In fact, let's just remove level ups. You get your stats from age up only and you only get 1 ap from a rebirth. Everything else comes from long quests that don't give any exp. We also shouldn't be able to deadly if an attack would kill us from above half hp. That's so stupid. Let's get rid of mounts too and reduce everyone's movement speed to human speed. That way no ones OP in movement speed/with pet mount speed.
But seriously, why the hell is talk of what needs to be nerfed and shit still going on? I used to hear people left and right say "Play this game your way. Do what you want to to have fun." Now all I hear is "NERF X AND X AND X THING BECAUSE IT'S TOO GOOD AND STRONG AND CHEAP AND IT APPARENTLY EFFECTS HOW I PLAY THE GAME AND KEEPS ME FROM HAVING FUN!!!!"
Risk of Rain just got one of the most broken updates. You can chose any item you want if you want to, taking out the random element. You can make it so you deal 500% more dmg from the start AND choice your items to negate the 10% of you hp only part. Do you HAVE to? No. Can you use this to have even more fun? Yes. If you don't have fun with it is someone putting a god damn gun to your head and forcing you? No.
Here's my question for anyone screaming nerf so and so. Are you using these methods? Are you still having fun? Would you stop using these methods/start using them to have more fun? Are you having ANY fun with this game anymore regardless? (If not then leave, no one's forcing you to stay and nothings going to change just for you. It's alright to think up little buff/nerfs for things, but don't start preaching it to the world and screaming about it every chance you get.)
Just play the damn game the way you want to play it. Simple as that.[/SPOILER]
Such a beautiful post. I couldn't have said it better.
-
Zekkii wrote on 2014-05-02 03:07
Quote from Username;1218215:
The most overpowered aspect is not Reforges or Magic. Catering might help cut it close but the real issue is the fact that the servers give monster stutter lag and they litterally do nothing.
This promotes less skill and involvement in the game. Allows everything to be easy.
It's hard to notice the difference when you 1-hit everything, but it really doesn't help.
-
Vadar wrote on 2014-05-02 21:23
I use everything on this list and find them enjoyable and fun to use. I don't mind spending money on things I enjoy or simply get satisfaction from. Just like you don't mind spending money on going to a theatre to watch a good movie rather than watching it at home and screams: the screen at movie theatre is too big, must make it smaller; the surround sound effect is too real, must replace it with crapy headphones.
We are playing / paying to get satisfaction, not suffering.
If you want to play challenging games where it's just player vs game, play something old school like Zelda and Donkey Kong instead of MMO. In MMO, paying players generally do better than not paying players. That's just statistical fact.