Thoughts on Ninja Talent?

• Avino wrote on 2014-07-29 13:45
  Why do you guys compare bind to lullaby, it's more like ice dragon/scooter stun. Or am I missing something...
• Tyskiyomy wrote on 2014-07-29 14:59

  Quote from Avino;1235757:

  Why do you guys compare bind to lullaby, it's more like ice dragon/scooter stun. Or am I missing something...

  
  It needs to be as "effective" as lullaby or its not worth it apparently
• ironwoman wrote on 2014-07-29 15:50

  Quote from Avino;1235757:

  Why do you guys compare bind to lullaby, it's more like ice dragon/scooter stun. Or am I missing something...

  
  
  Does bind do damage? No.
  
  That's what bind and lullaby has in common: no actual damage done. But both have the same function, to lock enemies.
  
  And yeah, it's really not worth it except for the stat it provides. Think about it. You need a shuriken to do this. You can use lullaby without holding anything.
  
  In that sense, which one would you really choose? It doesn't need to do damage to be the better and efficient skill. Lullaby simply is much more applicable to almost all situations in Mabinogi.
  
  I said this somewhere else, but you don't need to rely on reforges to see how much Ninja actually falls behind. Reforgeless puppet? Still better than moderately reforged Ninja. Reforgeless lance, gunner, range, magic, all of these still beat Ninja. Even though the skillset gives ridiculous stats, it still can't follow up to the other classes. Hence why you're not gonna see many Ninja mains, it's too limited.
• truefire wrote on 2014-07-29 15:52
  Bind is more like an AoE Spider Shot than anything.
• wilson10000 wrote on 2014-07-29 16:03
  I see lots of potential with ninja. You guys should try getting shadow bind for boots reforge, it's pretty darn OP.
  
  Shadow Bind > Crash shot or gunner or Puppet/magic set up.
  Reforged Shadow Bind can keep the enemy stun locked forever. If you use title it would be overkill.
  The de-aggro from the cloak ability is great, and kunai storm does not cause aggro.
  
  You can even use Bind > lullaby if you don't have aoe pets to keep them in place
• Jake wrote on 2014-07-29 16:08
  Well for todays standards in this game, just using ninja pretty much gets the job done. I have a terrible amount of str and will. All my friends are stronger than me at the moment, and am lacking ninja ranks but my kunai storm can pretty much one shot everything in its radius in hard mode missions. Something to add on to kunai storm damage though, is the master title and reforge don't work at all at the moment.
  
  [spoiler=stat/skill reference]

  [Image: http://puu.sh/aw4Aw/5feddf7e59.jpg]

  
  shuriken on
  

  [Image: http://puu.sh/aw4CY/f292ee42f9.jpg]

  [/spoiler]
  
  This actually makes it a lot faster for me to use as opposed to archery (as in archery exclusive, my windmill with a bow equipped will do pretty well in terms of speed depending on the mobs position)
  
  I mean if you're going to not use ninja for anything other than shadow bind, you may as well yeah, not use shadow bind. But if you're going to use ninja for ninja, why wouldn't you also use shadow bind?
  
  Shadow bind as a standalone skill will not help as much as lullaby, but if you main/secondary ninja why would you opt to not use it
• Mentosftw wrote on 2014-07-29 16:31
  Underpowered when compared to gunner and puppets. Cannot deal as much damage and deals multi hits properly so a gunner will always ks you because their multi hit attacks are actually a single damage. It does have some insane range and when used properly, I think surpasses archery.
  
  If you use a slower shuriken, you're more reliant on explosive kunai and counterattack but you can deal more damage when you've got the advantage in positioning and not being stunlocked. Faster shurikens are better at staying in multiaggro situations better but won't dish out the same damage of course. High amounts of will and strength will help remedy that.
• k1nsoo wrote on 2014-07-29 16:31

  Quote from wilson10000;1235774:

  I see lots of potential with ninja. You guys should try getting shadow bind for boots reforge, it's pretty darn OP.
  
  Shadow Bind > Crash shot or gunner or Puppet/magic set up.
  Reforged Shadow Bind can keep the enemy stun locked forever. If you use title it would be overkill.
  The de-aggro from the cloak ability is great, and kunai storm does not cause aggro.
  
  You can even use Bind > lullaby if you don't have aoe pets to keep them in place

  
  
  ^Also to add my voice on Shadow Binding, a reforged shadow binding (or using shadow binding master title) can permanently bind mobs. What it makes this bind awesome imo is that it works like AoE pet effect (ice dragon) . If you use bind and use windmill, the mobs won't knock back - which leads to less dps loss.
  
  But the skill still has some setbacks. Shadow binding can only bind 6 targets and you have a limited space you can move to keep them bound. Shadow bind - shooting rush combos won't be very effective because as soon as you leave the "zone", the mobs will unbind and still knockback as usual (it will still bind the mob for better position). Also 6 targets are not enough to bind mobs in MA tourneys/peaca/lord missions compared to puppet crisis.
  
  Considering that we have limited equip slots, I don't think i will utilize ninja (since I mostly use puppet/guns or archery/guns) but if Nexon however decides to increase weapon slots, I would gladly use Ninja skills for their utility.
• Jake wrote on 2014-07-29 16:38

  Quote from Mentosftw;1235779:

  Underpowered when compared to gunner and puppets. Cannot deal as much damage and deals multi hits properly so a gunner will always ks you because their multi hit attacks are actually a single damage. It does have some insane range and when used properly, I think surpasses archery.
  
  If you use a slower shuriken, you're more reliant on explosive kunai and counterattack but you can deal more damage when you've got the advantage in positioning and not being stunlocked. Faster shurikens are better at staying in multiaggro situations better but won't dish out the same damage of course. High amounts of will and strength will help remedy that.

  
  
  I like ninjas aoe a lot better than gunners. Although there's no wotg skill, shooting rush and kunai storm have the exact same damage modifying percentage. Shooting rush scatters mobs, kunai storm doesn't. Kunai storm, as mentioned above, does not draw aggro. You could also use both kunai storm and shooting rush if you're not using shadow bind. It probably works out great, but I'm not much of a gunner. Also if you use a slower shuriken without an attack speed set what you said holds true. I have no issues defending myself with auto attacks using anju+attack speed set
• Jake wrote on 2014-07-29 16:38

  Quote from Mentosftw;1235779:

  Underpowered when compared to gunner and puppets. Cannot deal as much damage and deals multi hits properly so a gunner will always ks you because their multi hit attacks are actually a single damage. It does have some insane range and when used properly, I think surpasses archery.
  
  If you use a slower shuriken, you're more reliant on explosive kunai and counterattack but you can deal more damage when you've got the advantage in positioning and not being stunlocked. Faster shurikens are better at staying in multiaggro situations better but won't dish out the same damage of course. High amounts of will and strength will help remedy that.

  
  
  I like ninjas aoe a lot better than gunners. Although there's no wotg skill, shooting rush and kunai storm have the exact same damage modifying percentage. Shooting rush scatters mobs, kunai storm doesn't. You could also use both kunai storm and shooting rush if you're not using shadow bind. It probably works out great, but I'm not much of a gunner. Also if you use a slower shuriken without an attack speed set what you said holds true. I have no issues defending myself with auto attacks using anju+attack speed set
• wilson10000 wrote on 2014-07-29 16:43

  Quote from k1nsoo;1235780:

  ^Also to add my voice on Shadow Binding, a reforged shadow binding (or using shadow binding master title) can permanently bind mobs. What it makes this bind awesome imo is that it works like AoE pet effect (ice dragon) . If you use bind and use windmill, the mobs won't knock back - which leads to less dps loss.
  
  But the skill still has some setbacks. Shadow binding can only bind 6 targets and you have a limited space you can move to keep them bound. Shadow bind - shooting rush combos won't be very effective because as soon as you leave the "zone", the mobs will unbind and still knockback as usual (it will still bind the mob for better position). Also 6 targets are not enough to bind mobs in MA tourneys/peaca/lord missions compared to puppet crisis.
  
  Considering that we have limited equip slots, I don't think i will utilize ninja (since I mostly use puppet/guns or archery/guns) but if Nexon however decides to increase weapon slots, I would gladly use Ninja skills for their utility.

  
  
  For overall aoe damage and 1v1 damage guns surpass ninja. But Ninja has lots of utility to go with it.
  
  You can always use shooting rush towards the end of the duration of Shadow bind, don't need to rush too early. You can spam Kunai storm and bullet storm during that time. By the time you use shooting rush, bind cd will be back.
  
  Puppet/Ninja will work if you properly know the timing of Bind and Crisis, seems like a pretty good hybrid. Act 6>7> bind> Kunai storm. Also has Cloak abilty for sticky situations.
  Puppet/Gunner more aoe damage, and has way of the gun but less utility
  
  

  Quote from Jake;1235781:

  I like ninjas aoe a lot better than gunners. Although there's no wotg skill, shooting rush and kunai storm have the exact same damage modifying percentage. Shooting rush scatters mobs, kunai storm doesn't. Kunai storm, as mentioned above, does not draw aggro. You could also use both kunai storm and shooting rush if you're not using shadow bind. It probably works out great, but I'm not much of a gunner. Also if you use a slower shuriken without an attack speed set what you said holds true. I have no issues defending myself with auto attacks using anju+attack speed set

  
  
  Ninja aoe damage is slightly less than gunners. Gunners have bullet storm and shooting rush. Shooting rush attack spread is very wide.
  
  As i stated earlier, you can use rush towards the end duration of bind. So then you can spam bind again. During bind you spam Kunai storm. Or add in bullet storm.
  
  Ninja/gunner is actually very strong combination from what i've seen.
  Puppet is there for harder mobs.
• Lingshen wrote on 2014-07-29 16:54
  As a person who mained Gunner since its release,
  
  A person who mains Gunner should fully understand how Shooting Rush causes knockback, the range of their Rush, and how to use their available resources in terms of follow up from a non lethal Shooting Rush. The closer the target is to your Shooting Rush, seems like it's likely they'll go directly backwards instead of diagonally. Also Shooting Rush does have a brief time slot before the mobs get up, that's a good moment to either deploy a wall of Explosive Kunai (Which apparently stuns even Adv Heavy Mobs for a good amount), wait a bit then throw a Midare Kunai at the most grouped mobs, or use Shadow Bind to prep a Reload. If necessary, there's always Shadow Cloak to drop aggro and reposition. Because Midari Kunai doesn't induce knockback unless the guage is full, you can use it to prep Bullet Storm or stall for another Shooting Rush. I to use Frenzy during a Shadow Bind too if I'm using my range enhanced guns, at R1 you can take quite a few potshots at a few things then exit the Shadow Bind with a Shooting Rush.
  
  I may not choose the most efficient means of combat, but making combat styles work is always entertaining and rewarding if you ask me. Been relying on stats alone since G1 and I haven't had problems. With my severe lack of enchant and reforge enhanced damage, I kinda had to learn the system to survive.
• Osayidan wrote on 2014-07-29 17:19
  Have not even obtained a ninja skill yet. My tab is empty... To me it just looks like something to rank for stats that I might to in the distant future but right now my AP has other priorities.
• Osu wrote on 2014-07-29 23:38
  Starting to lose sight of the point in ranking smokescreen past 3.. Master talent already, and it's 51 AP for 2 will.. the only saving grace is that since it's so useless it has -some- potential to get revamped and do better things.. but do I train it now? @.@
• Tropa wrote on 2014-07-30 00:09

  Quote from Osu;1235838:

  Starting to lose sight of the point in ranking smokescreen past 3.. Master talent already, and it's 51 AP for 2 will.. the only saving grace is that since it's so useless it has -some- potential to get revamped and do better things.. but do I train it now? @.@

  
  
  This is exactly what I'm thinking, I might just bot the last ranks after I finish Sakura.
  
  As it stands, theres no reason to rank it past 3.