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Kaon wrote on 2014-11-03 23:52
Seems to be the topic at hand, but I want to turn it from something a bit heavier like the other topic, to something a bit more personal about sharing between people. Hopefully this is less of an argument and more of a learning experience.
What expectations do you feel like you have based on gender, good and bad? Bad experiences, good ones?
I'll share a bit on this later myself once people have posted a bit. This is a topic that's been on my mind a lot lately and I want to know what kinds of things other people have gone through.
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Campylobacter jejuni wrote on 2014-11-04 00:21
Obviously some people suppose me to know my shit and be self-sufficient, but I think the right answer to that is to expect that of women too. My mom would like it if I did more classical man work around the house. That's all of the extrinsic clearly sex-related expectations I can think of right now.
Personally I have some expectations of me, but not consciously for being a man, except the one that it should be me who should concentrate on bringing in the money in the first few months after pregnancy because I do think that women have to stick around their kids for at least the first few months, and I honestly don't care if it upsets anyone. It's for the greater good.
Of course she's free to work to a degree of ehr own choice on top of that if she feels like she has to to prove a point or not fall back in wages or whatever if it doesn't mean that she'd have to leave her infant alone for several hours a day. That would cause great beef, though it's a mood killer rather than a deal breaker. Of course I would also ocassionally care for the kid when it screams at night, after all no matter which way it goes, both of us will be exhausted from work during the day and I think it would be fair to share the exhaustion of the night and reduce the burden for the woman I love to an acceptable degree. The business won't go insolvent because of it, and if it gets me fired then I could only say good riddance to the worthless POS of a boss anyway. For the greater good!
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Kaon wrote on 2014-11-04 00:35
I'm just gonna say right now, I love the expression 'would cause great beef'.
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Space Pirate Nithiel wrote on 2014-11-04 03:18
If you speak to a feminist, then I am expected to rape and murder women while rubbing my testicles on their face to let them know I'm the boss because I'm the devil in human form because I'm white and have a penis.
If you speak to anyone who is actually part of my life, there are no expectations, at least none they openly voice. I guess maybe I am expected to like boobies? But if I told them I don't they'd be fine with that so I don't think it counts.
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Kaon wrote on 2014-11-04 03:28
Quote from Space Pirate Nithiel;1253097:
If you speak to a feminist, then I am expected to rape and murder women while rubbing my testicles on their face to let them know I'm the boss because I'm the devil in human form because I'm white and have a penis.
If you speak to anyone who is actually part of my life, there are no expectations, at least none they openly voice. I guess maybe I am expected to like boobies? But if I told them I don't they'd be fine with that so I don't think it counts.
..I don't think you know what a feminist is. But there are the extreme man-hating types that would say things to that effect. Just like any other extremist tho, that's not the defining actions of the group.
But anyway, on note of the topic, if you don't feel you have any expectations, then it's hard to define them. But maybe you have some you're entirely comfortable with? I think it's interesting to look at our own lives with an objective standpoint in this regard.. which comes to mind because of my own recent experiences.
I guess personally I'm looking a lot at how gender is defined lately.
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Aqualia wrote on 2014-11-04 06:29
Came from a 3rd world country
So my exception as a guy is of course be the breadwinner of the family while wife stay in the kitchen. Well i had been raised to be very respectful toward girls because my mom came from a family with 7 daughters so she was a breadwinner herself before getting married.
As for expection for girls, it is also fairly old fashioned, loyal to family, husband, don't have any romance, kids before having proper wedding. My dad goes into meltdown when he heard my brother getting a girlfriend and spend a night at her house and warned my sister to don't even think about having a boyfriend until they are fully adult like 30 year+. However knowing girls from my local highschool classes, i am expecting heavy feminist movement in about 10 to 20 years and the culture will probably change sooner or later.
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Kaeporo wrote on 2014-11-04 06:34
Quote from Kaon;1253076:
What expectations do you feel like you have based on gender, good and bad? Bad experiences, good ones?
The macro-culture of the United States traditionally expects me to be physically and mentally strong, financially secure (the breadwinner), and aggressively self-sufficient. I am expected to marry someone relatively close to me in race, color, creed, and caste by the age of 29 after having dated from the age of 15~17.
I do not give a shit about our culture or our customs. I don't care about your ideals or your gender. Tumblr has proven to me that we're not responsible enough to define gender so I've concluded that the world has defaulted on the concept of gender and nobody gets one.
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Space Pirate Nithiel wrote on 2014-11-04 06:46
Quote from Kaeporo;1253111:
Tumblr has proven to me that we're not responsible enough to define gender so I've concluded that the world has defaulted on the concept of gender and nobody gets one.
You, I like. You always make good points.
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Kyishi wrote on 2014-11-04 07:23
I do not nor have I ever felt like I was expected to be something based on my gender
I was raised in an environment that promoted complete gender equality
a lot of people say I act manly but it's genuinely a rly grey area for me
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TLCBonaparte wrote on 2014-11-04 14:51
1. Never cry
2. Never get on your knee
3. Bring them grandchildren
4. When married don't earn less than wife...
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Jake wrote on 2014-11-04 17:07
Quote from Kaeporo;1253111:
Tumblr has proven to me that we're not responsible enough to define gender so I've concluded that the world has defaulted on the concept of gender and nobody gets one.
This was absolutely beautiful.
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Osayidan wrote on 2014-11-04 20:30
Have not felt much expectations based on gender ever being pushed onto me. There's only one... People assume that because I have a penis I'm the one to go to if large, heavy objects require lifting.
-- sent via mobile
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Oberynn wrote on 2014-11-04 21:14
Quote from Kaeporo;1253111:
Tumblr has proven to me that we're not responsible enough to define gender so I've concluded that the world has defaulted on the concept of gender and nobody gets one.
I like this.
Or, you know, we could just have the two traditional categories and not have to label everything in between. Masculine and feminine do not have to be tied to a particular sex and it doesn't have to be negative for attributes to be considered one way or the other.
As for expectations... they're dependent on culture, era and social structure. It's not fair a lot of the time, but even if it changed (and it will always keep changing) everyone will never be happy. Besides, on a personal level we all have expectations for a million different things and not just gender, because it's easier than actually having to invest enough time/interest in every single person we meet. Most of the time though, once we do invest into someone our expectations and behavior revolve around everything we know about that EXTREMELY UNIQUE INDIVIDUAL and not just their gender or race, etc.
Also, tumblr pls stop, my memory is too bad to have to remember 60+ labels to arbitrarily force on people instead of just being cool with the fact that every single one of us is different. How about pls stop.
Edit: now that my reading comprehension finally caught up with me, I'll just say that I hate how people that don't know me well can't reconcile that on some aspects I can be or handle things with opposite extremes of what's traditionally expected AT THE SAME TIME.
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Kaon wrote on 2014-11-04 21:38
Self identity is an important thing. Just because some small groups of people that happen to be on tumblr have taken that to an extreme doesn't make the issue any less important.
Seriously tho, what is with this site? Everytime someone mentions something regarding personal identity or social issues, everyone cries 'TUMBLR' and runs away from the subject. Yeah, like I've said repeatedly, sure some people on tumblr have gone to extremes in some cases, but they're not any special exception in that regard.
Just because some people have gone to extremes, doesn't mean that issues aren't issues and we aren't able to talk about them. But it seems like 'tumblr' has become the convenient excuse to avoid talking about anything outside of the comfortable world view at hand.
For example, gender. It is a fact that other cultures have a recognized third gender. (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender as a loose reference) This isn't some new concept that tumblr made up. It's also a fact that people are treated differently based on gender, in ways they may not realize.. this topic is a good example. Look at how many people say they feel there's no gender expectations on them. I never felt I had any, until recently, when my situation changed and made me look at everything in a different light.
But anyway, it'd be nice to have a serious discussion about relevant topics to our culture and world without everyone getting scared of it and crying 'tumblr' everytime. Just because we're talking about the subject doesn't mean the extremist views will 'infect' us.
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Iljimae wrote on 2014-11-04 22:12
My post is slightly off-topic, but I feel it is pertinent to the thread.
The group therapy session about tumblr woes in a lot of threads recently has been really turning me away from even posting on Mabination anymore, despite reading often. But the reason I stick around is the same reason I'm posting this right now. The matter of that I won't generalize an entire website or group of people by the actions or words of a few, even if they are the loudest. The boards are a median filled with many different types and groups of people. It seems like such a simple concept to not make large scale generalizations, but many of the arguments posted recently, especially in regards to social and gender issues, are weakened by what seems to be a giant circle-jerk about Tumblr.
For example, while you might disagree with a mentality on 4Chan or Reddit, there are many areas of the websites that you will most likely find agreeable with your own perspectives and values. Tumblr is used as a median for many different things, I myself use it for my art and for pictures of delicious food.
I have friends who use it for writing.
I have friends who use it just to post pictures of things they like.
And there are people who use it as a social platform to discuss issues or identify themselves. Issues you might disagree with and identifications you might find silly. But that's no reason to decide to condemn an entire website or put yourself on a pedestal above someone else.
It comes off as degrading towards other fellow human beings rather than insightful as to why you feel a certain way about an action or mentality.
Instead of saying "Tumblr" in your arguments to try to strengthen your point, why not discuss specifics of what you're finding issue with, or a certain mentality of person, and leave the generalizations nearly akin to how some view race out of it.
Just some food for thought, I'd rather not derail this discussion further.