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EndlessDreams wrote on 2015-01-19 20:47
Quote from Tropa;1262012:
Efficiency isn't always fun.
Same can be said for Inefficiency.
All depends on the players. Although, it is easier to argue for Efficiency in the forums as the better way to go about the game. More players play that way than inefficiency. Otherwise, they would just not work so hard to rank my their skills/levels/equipments/etc, and stay at the beginner status levels (<1000)
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EndlessDreams wrote on 2015-01-19 20:47
Quote from Tropa;1262012:
Efficiency isn't always fun.
Same can be said for Inefficiency.
All depends on the players. Although, it is easier to argue for Efficiency in the forums as the better way to go about the game. More players play that way than inefficiency. Otherwise, they would just not work so hard to rank my their skills/levels/equipments/etc, and stay at the beginner status levels (<1000)
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Shanghai wrote on 2015-01-19 20:55
I feel if DevCat was going to add that MP Recovery skill in the game, at least make it fit thematically, then limit it so it doesn't immediately feel that players have access to an infinite MP bank every 3 minutes.
"Due to the continued research made by the mages in Dunbarton and Tara, they have come up with a method to coalesce the abundant mana found in-between Eweca's rise and fall(nighttime) and channel a large amount of it into the magical implements they use."
Or something. Make it limited to night-time. It fits the setting of Mabinogi being more magical at night. Make a cap on it's recovery based on the type of wands/staves used. Make it stored energy in the staff that is used up before MP is used. I dunno. *shrugs*
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ReFuSeR wrote on 2015-01-19 20:56
Quote from Slayerj;1262032:
I hope they make meditation no longer slow you to a walk, and also no longer drain hunger faster or hurt sp regin (as much). That way we have a universal mp healing skill, and a mage directed one.
Most of combats skills can be used with anything else.
Bolts, healing, mana shield, and to an extent, meditation, are magic's universal skills.
Which makes sense. To do the 'basic' things, you don't need anything special. That helps them tie into everything else a bit while still having their own things and special skills. For melee, it got it's own upgrades to be special for it's own things, while still allowing it to be used as 'basic' stuff with other skill sets.
I think they should keep it the way it is for meditation. If they changed it people would just never turn meditation off, and if that is the case then it should be a passive skill or have another disadvantage to balance it out. Like no HP and/or stam recovery while using meditation.
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Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-01-19 21:01
Quote from Slayerj;1262032:
I hope they make meditation no longer slow you to a walk, and also no longer drain hunger faster or hurt sp regin (as much). That way we have a universal mp healing skill, and a mage directed one.
I'd rather they just massively nerf Mana Recovery. Those changes should probably be more wand/staff based.
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Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-01-19 21:01
Quote from Slayerj;1262032:
I hope they make meditation no longer slow you to a walk, and also no longer drain hunger faster or hurt sp regin (as much). That way we have a universal mp healing skill, and a mage directed one.
Only if they keep Mana Recovery then I'm fine with Meditation being more universal. Mana Recovery also needs a huge nerf.
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DefinitelyNotTwin wrote on 2015-01-20 00:07
Quote from EndlessDreams;1262035:
Same can be said for Inefficiency.
All depends on the players. Although, it is easier to argue for Efficiency in the forums as the better way to go about the game. More players play that way than inefficiency. Otherwise, they would just not work so hard to rank my their skills/levels/equipments/etc, and stay at the beginner status levels (<1000)
Or make
everything weapon efficient/inefficient for balanced and less linear game play.That works too possibly?For Melee,there's almost no important differences in weapons.Just damage..oh and piercing.
So your best melee option is Lance or Two-Handed weapons due to sheer power. I know many people who wish things like..for example Axes had more useful things going on for it.Like some real exclusive advantages and skills.With of course balanced disadvantages.
Sure.Final Hit places dual-wield (mainly humans cough) in today's meta , but it would have been cooler to..idk..make some exclusive dual-wielding skills for constant D.P,S while Final Hit is down?Would be nice for comobing and damage. For now, the most efficient dual-wielding is Final Hit..and that's just overly buffed normal attacking. Very efficient, but that skill alone will get boring fast.So Tropa is right;
Rep
Quote from Tropa;1262012:
Efficiency isn't always fun.
It's hard to getting my friends to stick with this game when Firebolt is your best beginner and endgame mage skill.
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Eos wrote on 2015-01-20 01:07
Quote from DefinitelyNotTwin;1262062:
It's hard to getting my friends to stick with this game when Firebolt is your best beginner and endgame mage skill.
This is the sad truth of magery boiled down to a single cringworthy point.
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Esileruf wrote on 2015-01-20 21:37
Quote from Eos;1262066:
This is the sad truth of magery boiled down to a single cringworthy point.
Well, this update hopefully makes vivace + firebolt -> tab -> firebolt lesser in a few cases compared to using fireball or
THUNDER FOR ONCE.
Thunder has been USELESS since enlightenment and even before outside of rafting, simply due to the delay. The cast speed changes and the delay changes might make thunder usable, esp since it benefits from cast speed AND overture very similarly to firebolt.
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Kaeporo wrote on 2015-01-20 22:25
Quote from Esileruf;1262192:
Well, this update hopefully makes vivace + firebolt -> tab -> firebolt lesser in a few cases compared to using fireball or
THUNDER FOR ONCE.
Thunder has been USELESS since enlightenment and even before outside of rafting, simply due to the delay. The cast speed changes and the delay changes might make thunder usable, esp since it benefits from cast speed AND overture very similarly to firebolt.
Thunder has never been useless. If anything, the reduced standby period actually hurts the skill.
Thunder's niche recently has been easy snap combos. With the standby period reduced, Thunder is nothing more than a smaller AOE Fireball with a target count limit.
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Osayidan wrote on 2015-01-20 22:30
Quote from Kaeporo;1262203:
Thunder has never been useless. If anything, the reduced standby period actually hurts the skill.
Thunder's niche recently has been easy snap combos. With the standby period reduced, Thunder is nothing more than a smaller AOE Fireball with a target count limit.
The stun time it gave was awesome. Though personally I use that stun time to load up as much of the next wave of thunder as possible, but if both the stun and the cast time are reduced it should balance itself out for that kind of situation. Will be a lot better for rafting too.
I can see it sucking for when you want to chain something else after thunder though, or get some damage in before the thunder strike.
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Slayerj wrote on 2015-01-20 23:28
I'd like to point out that my Fireball and Firebolt were both doing more to my part of Provo (the single warrior) and the triple warriors of someone else's fight, than 2 full charge thunders + about 4 other small casts of 1-2 thunder did.
In my 1v1 I hid with ninja, ran off to pull out my wand because I wanted to thunder it to death. Loaded thunder, hit him, snap casted thunder, hit him, loaded 2 charges of thunder, hit him, loaded 1, hit him, loaded 1 hit him, loaded 2 hit him. I DID ALMOST half his hp. ALMOST....with all that... Then I fuck around for a bit with basic melee and keep hitting the wrong hot keys/opening up every single game window there is and die, get up, die again while trying to set up hail storm with thunder and celestial spikes to slow it (ALMOST worked...got to the charge stage and was about to get an attack off in another second.) After that I get up and just spam firebolt on it and deal the remaining 25-40% of it's HP in 3-5 firebolts with my cc wand so I don't waste anymore time or die again.
Currently I love thunder...not really for it's 'stun' but because it's a skill that hits multiple times and takes a while to finish, giving you time to get ready. Atm it's really the 'stun' part of it that does this because of how long it takes to load up another or get hail out (good luck getting hail out....) and really it's 'stun' job is better done by ice spear....Don't get me wrong. I LOVE Thunder. I used to do nothing but thunder all the time. (Got me killed so much due to the giant clusterfuck of "Wait who did I hit?") But i'd like it's effect to hurry up sometimes...even in rafting. (get's 90% to the point of out of range, still waiting on thunder) Don't deadly, don't deadly don't-*deadlies* FFF!! *loads, no time to hit it, out of range* FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF!!!!
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DefinitelyNotTwin wrote on 2015-01-20 23:49
Or reduce the stun-time some and give players an action with thunder that allows it to hit whether they want in stun duration?
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Esileruf wrote on 2015-01-21 00:28
Quote from Kaeporo;1262203:
Thunder has never been useless. If anything, the reduced standby period actually hurts the skill.
Ever since thunder's standby time started to hurt it, esp. in party play, the sheer amount of time between initial and the 5th and final strike meant that unless you wanted to deal with multiaggro, there was no point for the marvelous standby time when dropping a fireball was it and done, maybe with a hermit doing fireball>thunder or vice versa was nice esp. with snap cast.
Quote from Kaeporo;1262203:
Thunder's niche recently has been easy snap combos. With the standby period reduced, Thunder is nothing more than a smaller AOE Fireball with a target count limit.
With standby period reduced thunder is actually stronger providing it doesn't exceed the target limit. Thunder takes a LOT more bonus from overture than fireball does from what I see, and the standby time reduction makes it viable in party play where all you'll normally get is overture due to its overtly stupid usability, with lowered standby time prevents stupid garbage, because in a state of knockdown, thunder CAN NOT result for a good portion of it, and you've got trigger happy folks with smashes roaming about most of the time as well. And thunder lock still exists due to the fact that the standby time will still exceed the cast time at r1, and with cast speed increases you'll still have the benefit of two thunders before the first even goes through.
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JoeyDee9 wrote on 2015-01-21 05:15
How about have all damage calculated with the cast weapon instead of the equipped weapon. Oh, woops, sorry just like i-frames in the combat renovation this wasn't looked at.