[Mabinogi KR Test] Renovation Update - Ranged Combat // 12th of Feburary, 2015

• Jake wrote on 2015-03-31 23:37
  Also the potential damage difference between raccoons or w.e and anything actually practical is huge.
• Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-04-01 04:15

  Quote from ironwoman;1269648:

  Possible, but not very likely. That 93k damage is about as RNG reliant as you can get. You'll see that damage for about 1% of the time, if not less. Besides, the buff to throwing attack is somewhat insignificant considering Giants already have more than two ways to clear mobs. The horrid balance itself is enough to make throwing attack still not a serious skill to use.

  
  
  

  Quote from Jake;1269652:

  Also the potential damage difference between raccoons or w.e and anything actually practical is huge.

  
  
  Either way that damage still exists, which irks me a lot since again Giants are not supposed to be efficient at range like that. What would make sense would be being able to combo with a Lance and a Javelin, not having just massive javelin damage.
• ironwoman wrote on 2015-04-01 04:32

  Quote from Darkboy132;1269666:

  Either way that damage still exists, which irks me a lot since again Giants are not supposed to be efficient at range like that. What would make sense would be being able to combo with a Lance and a Javelin, not having just massive javelin damage.

  
  
  Maybe you could argue the same for an elf that can do 1 mil+ drop kick?
  
  In no way is having 93k damage at lower than 1% chance any "efficient". Giant's range is still much inferior to Human's/Elves'. It's not like they're gonna use range as their main, and even as secondary skillset, there are much better options. Because of the practicality, javelins are still pretty useless.
• Jake wrote on 2015-04-01 04:46

  Quote from Darkboy132;1269666:

  Either way that damage still exists, which irks me a lot since again Giants are not supposed to be efficient at range like that. What would make sense would be being able to combo with a Lance and a Javelin, not having just massive javelin damage.

  
  
  So does 1m + lance charge and (elven) drop kick, as well as like 500k smashes and like 300k magnum shots
  
  and shit son I'd personally say lance combat in general may as well be close enough to being ranged
  
  And of course, just like the throwing attack, these all occur under unrealistic combat scenarios, and the proper/average damage/dps of the skills doesn't match, or even come close to these once in a lifetime highest hits
  
  I'd be willing to bet in a realistic combat situation that throwing attack would do maybe 40k, and it would have to crit, and it would have to hit the max balance roll. Even so, the DPS (in terms of using throwing attack over and over) is still bad, and when it comes down to it DPS is what matters in this game anyway.
• Kaeporo wrote on 2015-04-01 10:16

  Quote from ironwoman;1269668:

  Maybe you could argue the same for an elf that can do 1 mil+ drop kick?
  
  In no way is having 93k damage at lower than 1% chance any "efficient". Giant's range is still much inferior to Human's/Elves'. It's not like they're gonna use range as their main, and even as secondary skillset, there are much better options. Because of the practicality, javelins are still pretty useless.

  
  
  Meteor Strike Syndrome.
  
  Critical damage only factors in maximum damage. 80~90k critical hits will be common. What won't be common are 25k normal hits.
• Mimichikun wrote on 2015-04-01 17:52
  O.O when will this arrived?
• Lunamaniac wrote on 2015-04-01 19:08

  Quote from Mimichikun;1269716:

  O.O when will this arrived?

  
  
  Noone knows.
  
  Soon probably, and in the most abstract and uncertain sense.
• Slayerj wrote on 2015-04-01 21:16
  Do we still not know what the 70% aim thing REALLY does?
  
  Also, is Final shot instant load or still have to be loaded?
• Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-04-01 23:00

  Quote from ironwoman;1269668:

  Maybe you could argue the same for an elf that can do 1 mil+ drop kick?

  
  
  I've never seen a 1m drop kick from an Elf, but even so they still have a proper disadvantage in fighter compared to other races. Buffing Throwing Attack's damage made Giants way more advantageous in range than they should be. Sure it still possesses that one major flaw, but it doesn't change the fact that it's now potentially powerful as Elf Magnum.
  
  

  Quote from Slayerj;1269732:

  Also, is Final shot instant load or still have to be loaded?

  
  
  They never touched that, nor did they touch the load time decrease.
• Mimichikun wrote on 2015-04-02 16:20

  Quote from Lunamaniac;1269723:

  Noone knows.
  
  Soon probably, and in the most abstract and uncertain sense.

  
  
  T_T *still waitng *
• ironwoman wrote on 2015-04-03 02:16

  Quote from Darkboy132;1269746:

  but it doesn't change the fact that it's now potentially powerful as Elf Magnum.

  
  
  Except it isn't. Not even potentially.
  
  Elf magnum can go way higher than that. If you're thinking "Oh, Giant range so op!", it's not, it's still near useless.
• Kaeporo wrote on 2015-04-03 07:01

  Quote from ironwoman;1269884:

  Except it isn't. Not even potentially.
  
  Elf magnum can go way higher than that. If you're thinking "Oh, Giant range so op!", it's not, it's still near useless.

  
  
  Magnum Shot can hit higher and faster but not without tons of reforge support. Regardless, accuracy issues still greatly hinder the effectiveness of Magnum Shot. That's not a bad thing but it does mean that what little advantages Elves had over the other races are only further trivialized.
  
  At the end of the day, it still comes down to whether you plan on spamming Smash with a lance, Final Hit, Way of the Gun, Firebolt, or some combination of the lot.
• Kouki wrote on 2015-04-04 05:50

  - As the aiming percentage increases, attack failure chance further decreases.

  
  
  Um... Wait, so if we have a high aiming percentage, like say 99% or 100%... The attack can fail? D: What would be the point of charging the aim then... :( Or does it mean the monster's attack might fail? I'm confused.
  
  As for the giants, I think Javelins were always good(as an extra added bonus to melee combos), but their cool down was ridiculous to the point most people just never bothered with them, so this is good. xD
• Kapra wrote on 2015-04-04 06:52

  Quote from Fran;1269981:

  Um... Wait, so if we have a high aiming percentage, like say 99% or 100%... The attack can fail? D: What would be the point of charging the aim then... :( Or does it mean the monster's attack might fail? I'm confused.

  
  Your client might say it's at 100%, but combat isn't client sided (or you'll see shit like in MapleStory where hackers edit their damage to always be the maximum). You're only as good as your internet connection, and the connection to the server. So although on your screen it may say 80%, you might actually be at like 53% because your computer is faster than your internet (or if the server is having problems, though it's usually the connection's fault). So it can say 100% on your screen, but not be 100% at the server yet.
  
  What this update did is basically, 90% still isn't a perfect chance of hitting, but 90% right now is 10% chance of missing. 90% after this update might be something like only 6% chance of missing. We don't know the exact amounts and that would take hours of field testing, which I would never do but thank god there are insane people among us that would go to hell for science.
  
  

  Quote from Fran;1269981:

  As for the giants, I think Javelins were always good(as an extra added bonus to melee combos), but their cool down was ridiculous to the point most people just never bothered with them, so this is good. xD

  
  I'm not a giant so my opinion might be uninformed, but I never really thought Javelins were too weak. The thing that would make me not want to use Javelins is that they require their own weapon slot, which I don't want to devote one for. I'd rather carry other skillsets in reserve. But if all races could do both Archery and Throwing Attack, I would probably choose Throwing Attack because you only need to rank one skill and you're done, you don't have to worry about maxing a dozen skills. Although only having one skill for Throwing Attack is a turn off for a lot of people, there's something appealing about that to me. (It starts to become unappealing when one race has like 3 skills but other races only have 1. We want what we don't have, but if there is only 1 to begin with, then it's kind of nice for some reason.)
  
  As I said before my solution would be to just my Atlatls a shield slot item and have Javelins be consumed from the inventory, which would allow giants to use Throwing Attack whilst equipped with a Lance or a Two Hander or a Wand or whatever. Would be a nice alternative to shields, especially if the rumors about Vales Shield's active Defense bonus being nerfed is true (I don't know if it is true).
• Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-04-04 18:43

  Quote from Fran;1269981:

  As for the giants, I think Javelins were always good(as an extra added bonus to melee combos), but their cool down was ridiculous to the point most people just never bothered with them, so this is good. xD

  
  
  Pre-Genesis cooldown (25 seconds) may or may not have been a bit much. How is 7 seconds still long?
  
  If anything, the way Throwing Attack should have been handled is what Kapra said. Or better yet, get rid of Atlatls completely and make Javelins equippable in the shield slot, shrink Javelin's inventory size to 1x4, and increase its stack size, saving even more space. Additionally, the Javelin wouldn't restrict skills like Charge, but in turn its range would have to be decreased in order to chain Charge -> Throwing Attack effectively (giving Giants a great approach option). Throwing Attack would benefit off of the weapon's piercing, special upgrades, etc., but its base damage formula wouldn't change.