willcaster wrote on 2015-06-12 02:57
Quote from koishi-sempai;1278087:
In raw content FFXIV is great, but I honestly don't like the 3d photorealistic aesthetic. Also FFXIV is kinda boring before 50.
is boring before 20, after that you can dungeon + fate hunting+ levements + guildhest + quest (there are to many of them). DPs jobs have a hard time getting inside dungeons (system party 2 dps, 1 tank, 1 healer) but you can do other things while w8ing.
Aubog007 wrote on 2015-06-12 04:27
Quote from willcaster;1278088:
is boring before 20, after that you can dungeon + fate hunting+ levements + guildhest + quest (there are to many of them). DPs jobs have a hard time getting inside dungeons (system party 2 dps, 1 tank, 1 healer) but you can do other things while w8ing.
Yeah, i was started to get bored, then all of a sudden, BAM. Overload of stuff to do.
FF14 is getting to be quite amazing.
The community can be a mixed bag from end game point of a view
Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-06-12 08:35
Mabinogi: Perhaps rated #1 worst archery in MMO gaming.
Seriously, does any MMO have archers that come as close to the horrid level of Mabinogi's archers?
Aubog007 wrote on 2015-06-12 10:54
Quote from Darkboy132;1278114:
Mabinogi: Perhaps rated #1 worst archery in MMO gaming.
Seriously, does any MMO have archers that come as close to the horrid level of Mabinogi's archers?
Plenty.
Also you really like to hate mabi's archery.
Qnjo wrote on 2015-06-12 11:51
To be honest, very little MMOs out there do archery right. The main problem with it (and any ranged skillset in general) is balancing damage output and ability to avoid getting hit due to standing far away from the enemy. In most tab-target games rangers can't even stay away from the enemy after 1-2 hits, unless partied up with a tank.
Kaeporo wrote on 2015-06-12 12:03
The accuracy system in Mabinogi would be fine with a bit of tweaking to reflect the current state of the game.
Change aimRate from (320-distance/distance) to [(distance/4)-distance/distance]
Change Math.Min(heavy) from 8 to 5
Change Math.Min(light) from 5 to 3
Done. Simple enough.
willcaster wrote on 2015-06-12 16:32
Hit and run.<- this is the archers live, but in mabi this causes position lag... #elfproblems
Mabi archery force you kiss your enemys face to increase your DPS. Buffs stay to long, there is a point that we cant live without Bo or catering. . .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw8tWQtKzIQ
drezzt wrote on 2015-06-12 20:28
Hey guys,
[SPOILER="Wall of Text"]It's been a pretty long time since i last played mabinogi, but I check in every once in a while to check in on the status of the game that i've put the most time, money, and heart into. I consider mabinogi to be my first mmo, because of how much I cared about and still do care about it. Now, I mostly play Guild Wars 2, although I did play LoL for some time. I find myself asking "Should I play mabinogi? Should I check what's up with that?" fairly often, because of all the fun times I had with the game. However, every time I log into mabi, I'm fairly disappointed. My friend's list is pretty empty, most people are afk in Dunby or Belvast, depending on the hour, a henge will be completely empty, and the knight camp will be empty as well. I set off to do a mission, and realize how fun the combat is, yet how it exists in such a poor PvE/PvP environment. I've played many mmos, and I've never come across a combat system like mabinogi's. Furthermore, I find myself questioning the point of grinding. What is the point of getting better gear at this stage? After all this time, I'm still only 4k levels, but I can do most content. I might go through the same routine over and over again, but there are hardly people online that are my friends/guildies to do the content with.
It pains me to think that Mabinogi is not the game for me, because for many, many years it was. I lived in Erinn. I brought it out of the computer, and into my head and heart, every day that I considered myself a player. I think many people have already covered how mabinogi has been disappointing, but I'll list my personal thoughts here.
-Combat system. It's amazing. It's great right now, it was even better before puppet/gunner/ninja. In my opinion, combat peaked right after the release of fighter. But I have always loved the combat; perhaps I found it amazingly skillful and entertaining, or perhaps it is extremely rewarding, or both. For whatever reason, mabinogi combat is unmatched, and will remain that way.
-PvE. Oh, the days when Baol final was scary. The days when getting paladin was challenging, when completing g3 to get Dk was more challenging. The days when having a transformation meant something. I sorely miss those days of mabinogi. Those days, before lances and special upgrades, when damage meant something. Those were real adventures. Those were days when you had to go into dungeons like Baol, or alby advanced, very well prepared with campfires and bandages and food and holy water. In my opinion, that was the peak of the community interaction. Dungeons were actually challenging and fun content! Mabinogi has always been a game about how well people work with each other in combat, without a word being said, and I felt those old days reflect this statement best. The game rewarded group synergy! If the members in a group performed well together, the result was less death, faster clears, and an enjoyable combat experience. Now, whenever I see videos on youtube, or I hop in-game, I see people doing most content solo. You get in a group, every person splits up to do a different portion of the map, and that's that. Group synergy is made irrelevant by the ease at which a group can recover from a mistake, or completely ignore one missing person. PvE has gone a long way, and in the wrong direction, in my opinion.
-PvP. No comment here, pretty much everyone knows that PvP has never been central to the game, and it has been poorly balanced between skill sets since the start of the game.
-Social interaction. Sometimes, I watch the old mabinogi teaser trailers and released, and I feel an overwhelming sense of nostalgia and sadness. Where have those days of hanging out with friends gone? The days where beating an epic boss with a group of people you love hanging out with has drifted very far in the current iteration of the game. This ties in heavily with PvE, so I won't discuss much about it, but it makes me sad.
-End-game content. The entire end-game revolves around doing more damage. Is that bad? Not necessarily. It's bad if you sell the game as a F2P and people can spend money on the gacha or buying things in game with RL money through alternative modes of transaction. It's bad if I have spent millions of Gold nurturing my ego weapon and someone pulls an enchanted weapon from a gacha and r6's it, and already does more damage than me. I understand that the company has to make money, but I truly hoped they could do it in a different fashion.
-The story. No matter how much some people point out the obvious flaws and incoherence in the story, I loved g1-g3. Loved it. Amazing story. g9-g12 was also pretty good. Now, the story has somewhat gone awry, but I sorely miss the original story line, the story of the three friends, the story of the goddess, those first days playing mabinogi.
-The curve (character progression). I have always found character progression to be so well done in mabinogi. I, as a level 4k character, could do approximately the same amount of damage as an 8k character, because there is a point at which diminishing returns and stat caps/skill caps will ensure that. Of course, that same person could trump me in magic, provided he has the other 4k dedicated to magic, or something similar. But I think this was a genius way of tackling character progression, because it allows new players to catch up, even though they aren't truly catching up. Does that make sense? I hope it does. I loved it.
-The music. Oh lord, the music. The most beautiful music I've heard of any game I've ever played. It can be so nostalgic, yet so intense. I miss it often.
[/SPOILER]
Mabinogi will always be in my heart, I know that much. However, it pains me to see the state of the game, and I hope that one day, I will be able to enjoy a game as much as I enjoyed mabinogi. Perhaps I will one day enjoy mabinogi again. Heck, I feel like hoping on the game for old time's sake.
Peace out, enjoy your fantasy lives, because I sorely miss mine.
-drezzt
Darkboy132 wrote on 2015-06-12 20:31
Quote from Aubog007;1278127:
Plenty.
Quote from Qnjo;1278130:
To be honest, very little MMOs out there do archery right. The main problem with it (and any ranged skillset in general) is balancing damage output and ability to avoid getting hit due to standing far away from the enemy. In most tab-target games rangers can't even stay away from the enemy after 1-2 hits, unless partied up with a tank.
Examples?
Quote from Kaeporo;1278132:
The accuracy system in Mabinogi would be fine with a bit of tweaking to reflect the current state of the game.
Change aimRate from (320-distance/distance) to [(distance/4)-distance/distance]
Change Math.Min(heavy) from 8 to 5
Change Math.Min(light) from 5 to 3
Done. Simple enough.
Uhh... care to repeat that in simple, non-mathy English?
gundamweed wrote on 2015-06-12 21:49
Quote from Qnjo;1278130:
To be honest, very little MMOs out there do archery right. The main problem with it (and any ranged skillset in general) is balancing damage output and ability to avoid getting hit due to standing far away from the enemy. In most tab-target games rangers can't even stay away from the enemy after 1-2 hits, unless partied up with a tank.
Uh, helloooo, there's this thing called kiting in these tab-targetting mmos!
Qnjo wrote on 2015-06-12 22:26
Quote from Darkboy132;1278181:
Examples?
Almost any non-action RPG will do, honestly. My point was, it's hard to balance archers so they won't be neither too squishy nor too powerful. Mabinogi, being a mix of tab-target and action RPG, complicates things even further. Giving archery fixed 100% aim would make it borderline broken, like firebolt is right now.
Kaeporo wrote on 2015-06-13 00:20
Quote from Darkboy132;1278181:
Uhh... care to repeat that in simple, non-mathy English?
There are two different types of active ranged skills.
Light skills:
- Maximum accuracy is achieved in x-5 seconds (Max Aim Duration "MAD" or Math.Min)
- Receives aim speed bonus from Ranged Attack, Crossbow's Hidden bonus, Final Shot, Reforges, Vivace, etc
Heavy skills:
- Maximum accuracy is achieved in x-8 seconds (Max Aim Duration "MAD" or Math.Min)
- Receives aim speed bonus from Final Shot
When you start aiming at an enemy, the game first identifies aPos (your location) and tPos (enemy location) using the Attacker.GetPosition() and Target.GetPosition() commands. It then calculates the distance between the two, taking X/Z but not Y into account. Afterwords, it calculates aim rate by multiplying MAD by your distance to the target, capped at 320, divided by your maximum range. The actual hit percentage is calculated by multiplying aim time, aim rate, and other factors (such as the hidden crossbow bonus or the ranged attack bonus) and adding that number to your initial aim bonus (from Final Hit/Arrow Revolver). 100% accuracy is achieved 990 milliseconds after reaching 99% accuracy.
The simplified formula is:
MAD (Distance to target/Maximum Distance)
At present, the distance to target caps at 320 range. Magnum Shot will hit 99% accuracy in 1 second at 320 range, as opposed to 8 seconds at maximum range; a whopping 8x difference. The new cap would be equal to a quarter of the weapon's maximum range. The end result is that you would aim more slowly at point-blank range compared to a present but long-ranged combat would be much, much faster.
Kazusa Touma wrote on 2015-06-13 04:11
Quote from Kaeporo;1277799:
I'm talking about the combat mechanics.
You're not catching on. I'm not sure how else I can explain it to you...
Call of Duty having great gameplay VS matchmaking taking 20 minutes to start a game.
when I think of combat system I think of the entire mechanics + pve + pvp, of which basically pve & pvp take almost the entirety of since that's literally all the combat related content in the game that you'd use those mechanics on... and if those are bad I'm inclined to think the entire system is bad. I don't think your CoD analogy is quite right though, since for our pve & pvp it's not just the rewards system/raid system wait time that is bad, it's the content itself as well.
I disagree with you on combat mechanics being decent too, because it's those combat mechanics themselves that make mabi terrible for pvp. You'd have to take out a ton of skills in order to make pvp fair, and if the combat mechanics were good, this wouldn't be the case.
Customization, on the other hand, is great though. I love the equipment and dye system, I just wish they had a 2nd slot for headgear =C
willcaster wrote on 2015-06-13 05:07
Back in G1 i thought mabi had a balance btw 3 "clases"
meele: normal dmg, risky. Constant lose of hp, needed perfect understanding of your foe.
archery: weak dmg, safe but slow. Cunning player, takes its time to position and aim
magic: good dmg, expensive, slow, trong, safe. Constantly 1h-ko but needs lots of time to regen mana
Smash, magnum and firebolt were the same. Strong hit + push back
Wm was the only AoE with 10% of hp lose
normal attack (meele) meant a 33% of draw,win,fail. ranged na needed time. icebolt needed mp and time
critical hit, defense and counter were needed by 3 "classes"
Lb was a gamble: dmg and stuning time and mp consumption.
Other MMORPGS have a balance btw classes: something equal or something that is not equal but keep in balance the classes. Nexon screw this so hard, when i played maple new jobs were better and stronger; same thing is happening in mabi
Blissfulkill wrote on 2015-06-13 05:11
Quote from willcaster;1278258:
Back in G1 i thought mabi had a balance btw 3 "clases"
meele: normal dmg, risky. Constant lose of hp, needed perfect understanding of your foe.
archery: weak dmg, safe but slow. Cunning player, takes its time to position and aim
magic: good dmg, expensive, slow, trong, safe. Constantly 1h-ko but needs lots of time to regen mana
Smash, magnum and firebolt were the same. Strong hit + push back
Wm was the only AoE with 10% of hp lose
normal attack (meele) meant a 33% of draw,win,fail. ranged na needed time. icebolt needed mp and time
critical hit, defense and counter were needed by 3 "classes"
Lb was a gamble: dmg and stuning time and mp consumption.
Other MMORPGS have a balance btw classes: something equal or something that is not equal but keep in balance the classes. Nexon screw this so hard, when i played maple new jobs were better and stronger; same thing is happening in mabi
Now archery is the opposite, it is the most dangerous class but also one of the more rewarding ones when it comes to damage.