Shadow Missions make me go on hiatus.

• Ailyene wrote on 2010-10-12 02:54
  Well I guess to people who aren't meleers, windmill is incredibly overpowered just like how I think golem summoning, blaze, and ice spear are overpowered. I didn't know blaze got nerfed though, so I dunno how good it is now. I'm pretty sure there have been plenty of debates/arguments/whatever over whether windmill should be nerfed or not but the fact is that obviously Korea's developers don't think so or they would've considered nerfing it already, so there's no point discussing about it anymore I guess.
  
  I actually find the HP reduction pretty bad. I'm not saying it shouldn't have it (if it didn't, it would be incredibly overpowered), but it's not as unimportant as you think it is. For only melee/range hybrids, pot poisoning is no problem, but sometimes I use magic and pot poisoning gives me huge problems because every mana pot I use takes away a chunk of strength. =/ Also, I've died a lot of times in deadly since it's kinda hard not to get hit at all in hard dungeons or SMs.
  
  I think a skill is only seriously overpowered when it renders one of the other types of combat obsolete. So far, windmill is only doing that in easier dungeons. Ciar advanced isn't all that hard using range or smash/N+1 or magic either. It just takes more time (unless you use ice spear).
• Tatsigi wrote on 2010-10-12 02:57

  Quote from Zid;181972:

  But Crash Shot doesn't have a cool down time (anymore).
  
  Also, Windmill has the smallest range (500) in comparison to Blaze (550), Ice Spear (600), and Crash Shot (700).

  
  
  But you know WM is effected by chracter size, you don't know what the 500 could've be for 10year old characters.
• Ailyene wrote on 2010-10-12 03:05
  Oh holy crap. I just read the windmill page on the wiki and age potions affect your windmill radius?! FFFFFFFFFF- I age pot to 10. x_X But then, I remember standing in the same spot as my guild leader (who had an appearance of 17 and was age 17+) and we hit the monster at the same time....so maybe the wiki is wrong?
  
  Er, in an attempt to go back on topic, it would be nice if there were shadow missions that had a nicer atmosphere. Why does every evil place have to be dank, dark, and gloomy. =( We already have enough of those.
• Tatsigi wrote on 2010-10-12 03:07

  Quote from Ailyene;181998:

  Oh holy crap. I just read the windmill page on the wiki and age potions affect your windmill radius?! FFFFFFFFFF- I age pot to 10. x_X
  
  Er, in an attempt to go back on topic, it would be nice if there were shadow missions that had a nicer atmosphere. Why does every evil place have to be dank, dark, and gloomy. =( We already have enough of those.

  
  
  Its a good thing I don't use WM, I age pot as well. Being tiny pwns =D
• Jando wrote on 2010-10-12 03:11
  The load time on Crash shot was taken out iirc. Crash shot is going to be superior to WM in SM's due to the close quaters and that the fact with a full 5 monsters in the splash will cause crash shot to deal 540% - 900% damage to the initial target, now if you have the stats to kill the initial target with that 540% - 900% damage then you're going to rook everything else due to the splash causing the others to not aggro you.
  
  Crash shot will change how people will solo the game since its such a great skill. Being range only makes its awesomeness and usefulness that much greater.
• Zid wrote on 2010-10-12 03:28

  Quote from Tatsigi;181990:

  But you know WM is effected by character size, you don't know what the 500 could've be for 10year old characters.

  
  
  That is true.
  
  However, Windmill is only as effective as the weapons that wield it. Just as much as Combat Wand is to Blaze, Crown Ice Wand is to Ice Spear, whatever bow to Crash Shot. Windmill is not (possibly nowhere near) as insane when not using a Slow-Very Slow, 2-hit Melee weapon(s). You also have to consider damage and wielding of aggro control. I agree, Windmill is overpowered, but not as overpowered as it seems.
• Singleuseonly wrote on 2010-10-12 05:17

  Quote from Tatsigi;181956:

  WM is a ridicously OPed skill that incredibly cheap and should be nerfed. The rest are not. IS takes a crapload of mana for humans and even elves when they start spamming it. Blaze has already been nerfed twice and there nerfing it again. Also blaze only does extremely good damage with monsters about to fall. Golem summoning = farming tons of supplies to make golems, and then spending time making the golem. U also have to take into account the 10 mp and stam to make every golem. WM = spin, damage everything around you with a huge AoE radius as higher ranks for 10% of ur hp which can easily be healed by the healing spell or potting. The skill either needs to have its radius reduces drastically, because i don't see how you breakdancing at rank 1 can basically clear a whole room, or the skill needs to have a cooldown of like 10 - 20 secs like Crash Shot, or needs to use a crapload of stamina.

  
  
  If wm got nerfed, there would be a protest on one of the Korean servers for sure + there would be a lot of crying going on.
• Ailyene wrote on 2010-10-12 05:39
  Plus windmill's range is nowhere near "clearing a whole room". Maybe for golems, but I have rank 1 and my range doesn't even reach 1/3 across the room. Maybe not even 1/4. The wiki's pictures are extremely incorrect. It's like what Zid said. It's a good skill and better than most in the game, but it's not ridiculously overpowered. If you use it often as a meleer, you would know. Also, since this thread is about shadow missions, I find that windmill is not really that useful in harder shadow missions, as it's a bit hard to windmill-tank multiaggro that has heavy stander or 1-2 second shooting time. For me, it's actually a lot safer to spam CC firebolt or magnum, haha.
• Yogurticecream wrote on 2010-10-12 05:58
  Windmill is suicide.
  Without party heal or potion spamming or healing you'll die in almost no time.
• Kaeporo wrote on 2010-10-12 08:32

  Quote from Jando;182007:

  The load time on Crash shot was taken out iirc. Crash shot is going to be superior to WM in SM's due to the close quaters and that the fact with a full 5 monsters in the splash will cause crash shot to deal 540% - 900% damage to the initial target, now if you have the stats to kill the initial target with that 540% - 900% damage then you're going to rook everything else due to the splash causing the others to not aggro you.
  
  Crash shot will change how people will solo the game since its such a great skill. Being range only makes its awesomeness and usefulness that much greater.

  
  
  I'll assume you've seen this video. To those who have not.
  
  Crash Shot
• KEL331 wrote on 2010-10-12 09:03
  CS is a good skill, but I wouldn't call it a overpowered skill.
  Its no neither better nor worse than WM
  
  I'm currently using CS as my main dmg dealer in SM Hard modes(sorry AR T_T)
  There are good sides, but CS takes up HUGE amount of AP(490), the greatest amount of AP in Mabinogi History
  
  The main problems is that CS takes up 3 seconds to cast, and for a archer(expecially elfs) thats a long time.
  Not to mention you never know when you'll miss.
  
  Another problem is that CS also uses your mana. (10mana per shot)
  It doesn't seem like much at first and trust me thats what I thought when I first used it because I have 500 mana
  The result however is after a few minutes in SMs, I always end up drinking my Mana potions
  and we all know how money-consuming Mana Potions are don't we?
  
  Lastly, unlike WM, CS can only hit up to 5 targets at a time.
  This doesn't become a theat in normal situations but from time to time you are going to have to fight
  more than 6 enemies at the same time and you don't get to choose which of those you are going to hit.
  If you get a little lag during a CS, your going to have to shoot it again.
  
  I understand it being a good skill, a ranged WM just for archers.
  However, I can assure you that CS alone isn't going to make Archers any more superior to other classes.
  (which is kinda sad since I was originally a Human Archer)
  Its good but unless you have 450+ dex its not going be all that powerful.
  
  Now back on topic,
  I admit Shadow Missions was a good attempt.
  There are several missions with special objectives that almost forces co-ops.
  
  BUT, you have to admit that they aren't all that awarding in either exp or item-wise(much like dungeons) compared to those popular ones.
  Plus those few popular missions IS the reason why people abandon dungeons
  The developers should have tried/should be trying a little harder to prevent dungeons becoming totally left-out.
• Jando wrote on 2010-10-12 11:15

  Quote from Kaeporo;182159:

  I'll assume you've seen this video. To those who have not.
  
  Crash Shot

  
  
  Of course. And that is a funny link to the video, had to chop out some stuff to watch the actually video
  
  

  Quote from KEL331;182166:

  CS is a good skill, but I wouldn't call it a overpowered skill.
  Its no neither better nor worse than WM
  
  I'm currently using CS as my main dmg dealer in SM Hard modes(sorry AR T_T)
  There are good sides, but CS takes up HUGE amount of AP(490), the greatest amount of AP in Mabinogi History
  
  The main problems is that CS takes up 3 seconds to cast, and for a archer(expecially elfs) thats a long time.
  Not to mention you never know when you'll miss.
  
  Another problem is that CS also uses your mana. (10mana per shot)
  It doesn't seem like much at first and trust me thats what I thought when I first used it because I have 500 mana
  The result however is after a few minutes in SMs, I always end up drinking my Mana potions
  and we all know how money-consuming Mana Potions are don't we?
  
  Lastly, unlike WM, CS can only hit up to 5 targets at a time.
  This doesn't become a theat in normal situations but from time to time you are going to have to fight
  more than 6 enemies at the same time and you don't get to choose which of those you are going to hit.
  If you get a little lag during a CS, your going to have to shoot it again.
  
  I understand it being a good skill, a ranged WM just for archers.
  However, I can assure you that CS alone isn't going to make Archers any more superior to other classes.
  (which is kinda sad since I was originally a Human Archer)
  Its good but unless you have 450+ dex its not going be all that powerful.
  
  

  
  
  The mana use is just to compensate its overpowerness. And you have some facts wrong, well you didn't state the rank you were getting you're facts from.
  
  r1 Crash shot
  - Initial target damage: 100%
  - Additional Initial target damage: 0.6*(Highest Splash Damage)*(Number of Targets Splashed)
  - Splash damage: 150% - 250%
  - Number of total targets: 6
  - Number of targets in splash: 5
  - Load time: 2 seconds (CS can be Zero Shot friendly)
  - Splash doesn't cause aggro, which is something wm can never do
  - The initial target is going to get rooked if splash hits 5 other targets (540% - 900% damage)
  - Most SM's such as SCC are only 6 mobs
  - 700 range splash
  - 15 mana used
  - 15 stamina used
  - Ignores protection when calculating crits (This for archery is awesome)
  - Ranged
  
  Even though you need 490 ap for it, its such a great skill and worth every bit of ap.
  
  The cast time will affect Elves more then Humans but so what? Elves have a 0.5 mag load time, a 2hit ranged attack, mirage shot. Humans will benefit from it more then Elves will imo. What I do know is that it will make SM's easier especially when supported with the high dex and ego. As far as SM's go some melee/range like trading 10% hp for 15 mana and even if it misses you still have time to load another one since its not like your right in there face when loading it in the first place.
  
  Prime example is when I loaded 5 magnums with the first 4 mission when I was 2100 distances away from the mob of Bone archers and lancers. They didn't even aggro me. Now for a second and third shot from missing at that range with CS isn't going to hurt you, and with splash not gonna aggro SM mobs you can safely attack and destroy from a distance.
  
  Crash shot is up there in the god tier rank, along with FS, FH, WM, Blaze, SpoG (spear of god), etc
• KEL331 wrote on 2010-10-12 12:09

  Quote from Jando;182188:

  Of course. And that is a funny link to the video, had to chop out some stuff to watch the actually video
  
  
  
  The mana use is just to compensate its overpowerness. And you have some facts wrong, well you didn't state the rank you were getting you're facts from.
  
  r1 Crash shot
  - Initial target damage: 100%
  - Additional Initial target damage: 0.6*(Highest Splash Damage)*(Number of Targets Splashed)
  - Splash damage: 150% - 250%
  - Number of total targets: 6
  - Number of targets in splash: 5
  - Load time: 2 seconds (CS can be Zero Shot friendly)
  - Splash doesn't cause aggro, which is something wm can never do
  - The initial target is going to get rooked if splash hits 5 other targets (540% - 900% damage)
  - Most SM's such as SCC are only 6 mobs
  - 700 range splash
  - 15 mana used
  - 15 stamina used
  - Ignores protection when calculating crits (This for archery is awesome)
  - Ranged
  
  Even though you need 490 ap for it, its such a great skill and worth every bit of ap.
  
  The cast time will affect Elves more then Humans but so what? Elves have a 0.5 mag load time, a 2hit ranged attack, mirage shot. Humans will benefit from it more then Elves will imo. What I do know is that it will make SM's easier especially when supported with the high dex and ego. As far as SM's go some melee/range like trading 10% hp for 15 mana and even if it misses you still have time to load another one since its not like your right in there face when loading it in the first place.
  
  Prime example is when I loaded 5 magnums with the first 4 mission when I was 2100 distances away from the mob of Bone archers and lancers. They didn't even aggro me. Now for a second and third shot from missing at that range with CS isn't going to hurt you, and with splash not gonna aggro SM mobs you can safely attack and destroy from a distance.
  
  Crash shot is up there in the god tier rank, along with FS, FH, WM, Blaze, SpoG (spear of god), etc

  
  Thank you, I didn't realize it took 15 mana
  
  I'm r1, mastered.
  
  one thing you have to be aware of though is that
  - The initial target is going to get rooked if splash hits 5 other targets (540% - 900% damage)
  This part was fixed a week after the skill came out
  The main target doesn't recieve such massive dmg anymore.(I tested it in Behind the Enemy, It deal around 400% ~ 500% dmg when all 5target get hit)
  
  Of course in open fields you don't have to worry about missing one or two shots, but in missions like partholons(where you are forced to fight in a limited area) one or two misses could become deadly.(Not something to worry if you have good teammated to back you up though)
• Kenero wrote on 2010-10-12 12:41
  Can't you fire crash shot behind barrier spikes? xD
• Kaeporo wrote on 2010-10-12 12:45
  At least archers have Bow Mastery (and possibly Crossbow Mastery) to look forward to.
  
  I'm skeptical about KEL's claim regarding the CS damage formula because Japan just got the skill and the information in their wiki reflects ours and I haven't found any websites that contradict the information we've gained through observation and the data files.
  
  I guess we'll just have to get hands-on experience with the skill.