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Singleuseonly wrote on 2010-12-29 23:34
Quote from Mama;267625:
what's simply needed is both sides of the coin. that's all you need to take from this.
Pretty much this. Except I think Tasha is reluctant in doing so because it might influence newer players to take an irreversible action.
Quote from Mama;267625:
.
[B]what's simply needed is both sides of the coin. that's all you need to take from this. For some people, the decrease in the ability to mob control that becomes worse as times goes on is worth the[B] bit of damage, especially against bosses, and especially if they prefer party play where their 'flaws' will be supplemented by their peers, as what happens across all classes, be it a staff or scythe. [/B]
You forgot the most important part: increased knockdown rate, which is always good because as trash mobs get harder, bosses get harder too.
Knocked down boss = he is in for a world of hurt.
Just to throw it out there, when I checked with the damage calculator with my stats it was a mere difference of 12.9 damage.
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Mama wrote on 2010-12-30 01:00
knockdown is rare to pull off for late boat bosses though singleuseonly, especially raid ones.. xD but yes, it applies most for smaller bosses with less resistance to kd.
i agree with the comment on irreversability. however many players come here to check after they level it past E, which causes issues since it seriously isn't the end of effective scythe gameplay as we know it.
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TA wrote on 2010-12-30 02:02
Quote from Mama;267831:
i agree with the comment on irreversability. however many players come here to check after they level it past E, which causes issues since it seriously isn't the end of effective scythe gameplay as we know it.
And you can speak for most players?
Personally, I check guides before I even roll a class, and all along the way to make sure I'm doing the right thing. I don't know what others do, and I certainly wouldn't pretend to know what most people do.
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Phoenix~Lament wrote on 2010-12-30 03:07
I can speak for my own experience using this guide.
I had a name saved for my Evie and deleted it two weeks before she was released (and like four days before she was announced, boohoo me). I decided to use the name anyway since I really like it so I made my evie two weeks after pretty much everyone else. In those two weeks I read your guide perhaps twice, and then afterwards checked it around level 10 to cover from 10-24 and then checked again once I got my scythe to make sure everything was going okay and what I should rank next.
In this entire process I was bouncing my own experience (Capped my Spear Lann at 38 before Ep4 update) against your guide, following more of my own opinion and just using your guide as an objective and knowledgable compilation from an experienced Scythe Evie/Evies.
When I reached 24 I had already ranked Physical Critical Hit to E when I checked your guide, and OMG the entire skill was bold red, and the description said it was useless, so FUHHHHH I screwed up so badly. 10% is pretty big and I thought my little decision to rank it once had screwed me over for the future boats like your description suggests. Your guide's absolute position on the issue, that it was all bad and nothing good could come from it, combined with a few threads on the topic where many people ranked Physical Crit and were told that it was a terrible idea led me to this belief.
Later on I found some controversy over the issue as well as opinions from other Mabi Heroes players that said that it's not so one-sided.
So though your guide is pretty solid and a great help to beginners for getting on their feet to a position where they know what they're doing and can decide for themselves, I feel like there are still a few issues that prevent your guide from being as good as it could be.
I'll restate my suggestion, hope you feel like it's a good compromise.
- I would like you to acknowledge that there is controversy over ranking physical critical hit. There are people who support ranking it or feel like it's not that big of a deal if you accidentally rank it, and there are people who support not ranking it at all.
- Ranking Physical Crit seriously is an AP sink for beginners and so readers are encouraged to do their own research (perhaps link them to some of the discussions in this thread on the topic) before committing too much AP into the skill.
- Some say it is ideal to not rank the skill at all and leave it at F, while others say it is okay if you accidentally ranked it and some even think it is ideal to rank it after the important skills.
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xJac wrote on 2010-12-30 03:21
^Can you link me to the Mabi player that said it's not so one-sided? I think I might have read it somewhere, but I am not sure.
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Papa wrote on 2010-12-30 03:25
^ Well you do have two of them in this very thread. Same goes for Glam.
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xJac wrote on 2010-12-30 03:38
Sorry, I should word it more carefully. I am trying to find the older discussion about Critical Hits, but failed to do so.
Edit: I have found a few, but not exactly the one I am looking for.
Edit 2: those are the ones I found.
link 1
link 2
link 3
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CodeS wrote on 2010-12-30 05:21
Quote from Papa;266429:
This entire post pissed me off for some reason. But yes, we both play on KR as well. Like Mama said, if it ever does happen, you wont even notice at all. If its from LLLR or LLLLR, the resulting snap will kill it and everything around it. If its from LLR, it wont matter. The shockwave reaches.
The opinion of ONE korean player should definitely not be taken so seriously. Its even reached the point where all new people hail this entire Critical Hit character destruction.
Now... Ill ask you ALL to do something. Whoever does have Critical Hit maxed, or at least high/moderate, go try it, without the snap. Ive been doing it on my Evie all day and crit or not, the downswing DOES hit them. So...?
Im sorry that my post piss you off for some reason.
But from my perspective, it seem that you've misunderstood my post.
I think that Critical Hit is costly and not benefit Evie at all. Since her Normal Attk is little compare to her MaAttk;
But i also think that accidently maxed Critical Hit is also fine.
Of course i support the idea not maxing it at all; but if people find it useful and decide to rank it;
It's all depend on personal preferences afterall :tea:
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Shirayuki wrote on 2010-12-30 05:44
Quote from CodeS;268256:
Im sorry that my post piss you off for some reason.
But from my perspective, it seem that you've misunderstood my post.
I think that Critical Hit is costly and not benefit Evie at all. Since her Normal Attk is little compare to her MaAttk;
But i also think that accidently maxed Critical Hit is also fine.
Of course i support the idea not maxing it at all; but if people find it useful and decide to rank it;
It's all depend on personal preferences afterall :tea:
To get the maximum potential out of your damage, eventually you have to raise Critical hit. The only reason people say not to rank it is because it makes trash harder. There's a huge point to ranking it in my eyes, but apparently it's the death of your Evie ._.
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CodeS wrote on 2010-12-30 05:55
Quote from Shirayuki;268320:
To get the maximum potential out of your damage, eventually you have to raise Critical hit. The only reason people say not to rank it is because it makes trash harder. There's a huge point to ranking it in my eyes, but apparently it's the death of your Evie ._.
Not really a death but it just costly; or really not costly according to Papa.
I think Critical Hit pretty much AP sink, and i would rather go for "Life Flare"
or even Hybrid, perhaps? :lol: than get the extra damage from Physical Attack
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Mama wrote on 2010-12-30 08:52
Quote from Tasha;267914:
And you can speak for most players?
Personally, I check guides before I even roll a class, and all along the way to make sure I'm doing the right thing. I don't know what others do, and I certainly wouldn't pretend to know what most people do.
I never said most :P
no need to grasp for straws.
it takes only a daily observation of threads (mainly in the nexon forums) and what your peers say to come to a conclusion.
edit: and some examples provided from this site as well.
anyways, the only thing you need to take away from anything said thusfar, like ive said again and again, is to tell people both sides of the coin. I'm used to repeating myself anyways.. people can be quite narrow-minded when things are rarely black and white, even when it's just a game.
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Singleuseonly wrote on 2010-12-30 08:55
Quote from CodeS;268339:
Not really a death but it just costly; or really not costly according to Papa.
I think Critical Hit pretty much AP sink, and i would rather go for "Life Flare"
or even Hybrid, perhaps? :lol: than get the extra damage from Physical Attack
Life Flare is actually worth its ap when you compare it to things like HP mastery and yeah might as well hybrid a bit to grab those Staff titles before going for critical hit.
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Mama wrote on 2010-12-30 09:36
i wouldnt suggest anyone to get critical hit without telling them the downside, as well as advantages. And then, they can make their own decision if they think the cons outweigh pros, and vice versa.
but life flare.. is definitely a thumbs up P: once you got all the other important skills down anyways. nothin like a chance to get a get out of jail free card.
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TA wrote on 2010-12-30 10:40
Like I said before, until someone can provide proof otherwise, it isn't changing. If that's unacceptable for you, and I hate saying this but, you're more than welcome to make your own guide.
However, I think it's pretty clear at this point and whether a bunch of people are suddenly whining or not, nothing has changed over night. You're wanting to crit on something that has a 0.04 percentile while giving yourself a chance to miss your 0.20 percentile. That, to me, is unacceptable. And all for the possibility of a slightly higher chance to knockdown on bosses? It's not worth it for something that has such a huge possible con.
Some of you may say it never happens, but I've personally seen it happen many times. The most common of occurrence being on boat 2. So yes, it does happen, that is very clear. Maybe you guys just aren't paying attention or what, I don't know. But, I'd call that a pretty good reason not to change anything.
And knockdowns in parties? Pssh... That's what those silly little guys spinning around are for! :lol:
(As for its usefulness for soloing bosses, I don't know. I doubt it's enough difference to make up for the cons. What's the actual knockdown percentile increase when it triggers?)
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Mama wrote on 2010-12-30 10:53
i doubt anyone will make their own guide, but will rather have to console all the poor newbies everytime someone levels up critical by 'accident', per usual. Or simply tell them to switch to staff. zing
and I thought hammionas were the KO queens qq.
also, the amount of variance from people's 'missing smash' accounts are so variable I don't think you can put a number on it. Subjectivity bothers me, especially in a case like critical hits where everyone should have the same trouble, but this is hardly the case.