Golem Exp Nerf

• Kenero wrote on 2011-02-03 20:56

  Quote from Koishi;318966:

  Because Thunder really deals as much as golems, right? Or at the very least, golems don't require you to max multiple Int-giving skills along with Thunder/LM.
  
  
  
  Yeah, if the mob is bunched up together. The golem user doesn't care about that, as in most cases the WM will hit everything in the room. Also, being bow range away from the golem to control it is not a limitation in any practical sense.
  
  
  
  Not only you're assuming that you're rank 1 with 600 Int, but that you're proficient at using the skill in the first place. That surely compares to a 650 ttl player tossing out golems with abandon right?
  
  Your comparisons are reaching at best and pathetic at worst.

  
  
  Really? Let's go by your comparison.
  
  Thunder, even without all the int giving features, is enough to clear out rooms easily. Heck, even my friend who has r1 thunder and ttl level 700 can hold his own in the Falias Mini game, which is impressive.
  
  Now let's go into more comparison.
  
  - Thunder can be used in rafting easily, where can use the golem? Not at all.
  
  - Both Thunderer and Golems can be protected by barrier spikes, pretty OP, no?
  
  - Mana Herbs and Potions is easier to obtain than Snow Golem Crystals. Especially in the future when the Director only plans to make Snow Golems obtainable only through mining in Silab Cuilin, and no end chest, no monsters, not even the Silab Cuilin Golem will drop the crystal. And you're getting private farms? Well, what do you think?
  
  - Alchemist can still be attack by enemies. Ever wm something and the monsters who got windmill aggroed your party mate instead of you? Quite often that happens.
  
  - Blaze can hit insane damage, in 0.8s load time, how is that not OP? And yet a golem who can't even heal itself and once it uses 10 windmill, is struggling to fight his life is good?
  
  - You make it sound as if every alchemist will keep using golems all the time. The truth is, if a Snow Golem is destroyed, it makes me think twice whether to summon another one, or whether it is worth it to keep using it, especially with the intended nerf on supplies coming soon.
  
  - Also consider this. Once you get your +max damage set, you're good to go. Me? If I want to keep my golems, every use I have to find time to go back in Silab Cuilin to get an awful drop rate of finest stones. You? Once you spend 3 mil on that enchant and successfully got it, you're all happy and dandy. Overtime, if I wish to keep using golems, it will end up costing me quite a bit of fortune, whether it is money or time.
  
  I've been trying to understand your side, but as far as I am concern, your rants are similar to a player who whines that his teammates are stronger than him and that they keep ksing and stopping him. What's the matter on having strong teammates? Especially those that can't keep using the crystals fervently.
  
  Besides, training golem isn't something a novice can easily pick up, unless they have a main or very helpful friends, or a rare dedication. Heck, even if you have the golem, there's many situations (ballooning, rafting, Uroboros) in which they cannot even rely on.
  
  And if you think a total level 700 has the same damage as a level 4k+, then just pretend that the golem is a 4k+ player and be happy that it's on your team, fighting for you.
• Zeo wrote on 2011-02-03 20:59
  To Maia; Hmm you're right about enchant and synthesis at some points... but... some people does waste their moneys on synthesis trying to make rare items such as Composite Shield, or fitted cord shoes.
• M wrote on 2011-02-03 21:00

  Quote from Zeo;318994:

  To Maia; Hmm you're right about enchant and synthesis at some points... but... some people does waste their moneys on synthesis trying to make rare items such as Composite Shield, or fitted cord shoes.

  
  
  Yeah but that's unrelated to golem synthing :P If anything it's an added perk to ranking it.. the ability to risk your money XD
• Phunkie wrote on 2011-02-03 21:01

  Quote from Maia;318989:

  Nobody does what? crash shots/fireballs/etc? Surely you don't mean that... so you mean use golems, run into the center of the mobs and WMs? HELL YES THEY DO x.x lol I hardly run with any alchemists BECAUSE of this... happens WAY too much

  
  
  Disrupts someone's Crash Shot, Thunder, Blaze or Flame Burst, I meant.
  
  That is not a quality unique to Golem users. That is a quality unique to people who (a) don't understand the mechanics of the game or (b) don't care for the mechanics of the game and just wants to kill, kill, kill, pew, pew, kill some more. Or (c), of course, don't care for their party member's safety or skill usage.
• Kenero wrote on 2011-02-03 21:03

  Quote from Phunkie;318999:

  Disrupts someone's Crash Shot, Thunder, Blaze or Flame Burst, I meant.
  
  That is not a quality unique to Golem users. That is a quality unique to people who (a) don't understand the mechanics of the game or (b) don't care for the mechanics of the game and just wants to kill, kill, kill, pew, pew, kill some more. Or (c), of course, don't care for their party member's safety or skill usage.

  
  
  Heck, even someone who has r1 windmill can disperse mobs easily.
  
  I once had a crash shot player who was angry that a thunderer disperse their mobs away from the crash shot.
• Phunkie wrote on 2011-02-03 21:06

  Quote from Kenero;319003:

  Heck, even someone who has r1 windmill can disperse mobs easily.
  
  I once had a crash shot player who was angry that a thunderer disperse their mobs away from the crash shot.

  
  
  I just feel like Koishi should rank up Golem and see for himself the struggles of a person who likes to use Golem 24/7.
  
  I can assure you, there are no people or very few who use Golem 24/7. You need a good supply of money for that and if you already have money, you're pretty likely to know how to play the game. You will probably have other skills to rely on when your Golem dies.
  
  Using Summon Golem all the time is a waste of time and money.
  
  It is a luxury, not something that can be used whenever you want. If you could, then I would agree with you and say that it's OP. But it's not. Like Kenero said, there are times where you judge whether the situation calls for a Golem or not. If it doesn't, you'll save the Crystal and use it for when you do really need it.
• Zeo wrote on 2011-02-03 21:07

  Quote from Kenero;319003:

  Heck, even someone who has r1 windmill can disperse mobs easily.
  
  I once had a crash shot player who was angry that a thunderer disperse their mobs away from the crash shot.

  
  
  Oh god.. that reminds me.. I hate it when players smash the mobs that I used thunder on because it cancels the thunder. I ended up explaining to the user to not smash the mob after I used thunder because of this.
• Kenero wrote on 2011-02-03 21:09

  Quote from Phunkie;319014:

  I just feel like Koishi should rank up Golem and see for himself the struggles of a person who likes to use Golem 24/7.
  
  I can assure you, there are no people or very few who use Golem 24/7. You need a good supply of money for that and if you already have money, you're pretty likely to know how to play the game. You will probably have other skills to rely on when your Golem dies.
  
  Summon Golem is a luxury, not something that can be used whenever you want. If it were, then I would agree with you and say that it's OP. But it's not. Like Kenero said, there are times where you judge whether the situation calls for a Golem or not. If it doesn't, you'll save the Crystal and use it for when you do really need it.

  
  
  Yea, I rarely find myself using Snow Golems at all. With the monetary cost to replace it, I'm pretty hesistant. Besides, with Cressedia, flame alchemist title, full flame alchemist gear, flame burst can crit 2k off hard mode mobs per hit.
  
  It's a much better alternative than using golems which are much harder to replace.
  
  @Zeo: I hate that too. I help my mage and archer friend by pooling the mobs together for them.
• Phunkie wrote on 2011-02-03 21:19
  Yup, I personally feel like crap when my Golem dies.
  
  I go like, SHET, I SHOULD'VE WM'ED SOONER!! GAHHH
  
  It pains me to see the big guys die. But that's because it takes effort to make them in large amounts.
  
  (And 'cause I secretly love them.)
• Username wrote on 2011-02-03 21:25

  Quote from Kenero;319021:

  Yea, I rarely find myself using Snow Golems at all. With the monetary cost to replace it, I'm pretty hesistant. Besides, with Cressedia, flame alchemist title, full flame alchemist gear, flame burst can crit 2k off hard mode mobs per hit.
  
  It's a much better alternative than using golems which are much harder to replace.
  
  @Zeo: I hate that too. I help my mage and archer friend by pooling the mobs together for them.

  
  
  2k per hit? Sounds like bullcrap. Maybe on Snow Trolls and Ice Based enemies, but on normal enemies, that doesnt sound possible to me. Im not fully decked out in enchants, but i have everything else, and i hit about 1.3-1.4k Crits on snow mobs.
• Kenero wrote on 2011-02-03 21:31

  Quote from Username;319044:

  2k per hit? Sounds like bullcrap. Maybe on Snow Trolls and Ice Based enemies, but on normal enemies, that doesnt sound possible to me. Im not fully decked out in enchants, but i have everything else, and i hit about 1.3-1.4k Crits on snow mobs.

  
  
  If you were in Mari, you should run with me. Also enchants do make a big difference. xD
• Username wrote on 2011-02-03 21:33

  Quote from Kenero;319053:

  If you were in Mari, you should run with me. Also enchants do make a big difference. xD

  
  Can you PM me which enchants your using? Aswell as your Cylinders stats and stuff? To make me believe that this can be done? I dont have fire enchants at the momment because i havent had time or the NX to put high level enchants on my equipment. But even then 2k on Normal Hardmode Mobs seems unbelieveable, when my crits only go to 700-800 on Hardmode.
• Kenero wrote on 2011-02-03 21:39

  Quote from Username;319058:

  Can you PM me which enchants your using? Aswell as your Cylinders stats and stuff? To make me believe that this can be done? I dont have fire enchants at the momment because i havent had time or the NX to put high level enchants on my equipment. But even then 2k on Normal Hardmode Mobs seems unbelieveable, when my crits only go to 700-800 on Hardmode.

  
  
  Well, it was recorded against Hard Mode Archers which has the lowest prot but this is basically the set up from Archbaild. Of course, if it was anything like Shadow Commander or even the Shadow Fighter (mini boss, like in provocation) it would be a different story. xD
  
  

  Quote from Archibald:

  
  
  Fire Alchemist Set G13 Perfectly Enchanted
  2x Heated Accessories 6+6 = 12 Fire Max
  Hot Spaika boots +8 = +8
  Flaming Headgear +6 = +6
  Explode Clothing +6 = +6
  Steam Shield +3 = +3
  Synergy Volcano Cylinder +12 = 12
  = 47 Max from enchants
  Fully Upgraded Volcano Cylinder +16 Max to fire Element.
  
  Flame burst = 21-42
  21- 105 Damage
  
  R1 Fire Alchemy Master = 10% Bonus Damage
  Master of Fire Alchemy Mastery = 10% Bonus Damage
  R1 Alchemy Mastery = 45% Bonus Damage
  Volcano Cylinder = 35% Bonus Damage
  
  According to the formula you calculate the % bonus after using the full charge multiplier
  Multiplier is 7.2 for full charge
  21 – 105 X 7.2 = 151.2 – 756
  756+ 75.6 + 75.6 + 340.2+ 254.6 = 1512 Max
  151.2 + 15.12 +15.12 + 68.04 + 52.92 = 302.4 Min
  302.4 - 1512 Min – Max Non Critical PER hit 7,560 Max Non Critical 5 charge total
  Critical is also applied before the % bonuses
  We will just use max for critical
  756 X 250% = 1890
  1890 + 189 + 189 + 850.5 + 661.5 = 3780 Max Critical Per Hit 18,900 Max Critical 5 charge total
  
  Interesting that all of the bonuses stacked = exactly 2x original amount before applied.
  
  All of the formulas were done on 0 Def 0 Protection calculations
  
  

  
  
  Of course there are a few enchants that aren't available or a pain to get, but that's the ideal set up that will take at least a week to get with great dedication. Also don't forget to +3 special upgrade the Volcano.
  
  I'll get a screenshot later as well.
• Koishi wrote on 2011-02-03 21:43

  Quote from Kenero;318991:

  Really? Let's go by your comparison.
  
  
  - Thunder can be used in rafting easily, where can use the golem? Not at all.

  
  
  Renes Egg Guarding maybe? Maybe you don't think that's as good. But even one or two golems makes it a cakewalk.
  
  -

  Both Thunderer and Golems can be protected by barrier spikes, pretty OP, no?

  
  
  
  -

  Mana Herbs and Potions is easier to obtain than Snow Golem Crystals. Especially in the future when the Director only plans to make Snow Golems obtainable only through mining in Silab Cuilin, and no end chest, no monsters, not even the Silab Cuilin Golem will drop the crystal. And you're getting private farms? Well, what do you think?

  
  
  Then use Sulfur golems. Oh how awful, you have to use slightly-less-than-endgame damage as opposed to endgame damage.
  
  

  - Alchemist can still be attack by enemies. Ever wm something and the monsters who got windmill aggroed your party mate instead of you? Quite often that happens.

  
  
  You counter the first hit, then you fire off another room clearing WM.
  
  

  - Blaze can hit insane damage, in 0.8s load time, how is that not OP? And yet a golem who can't even heal itself and once it uses 10 windmill, is struggling to fight his life is good?

  
  
  Can. If you're 2k or so.
  
  

  - You make it sound as if every alchemist will keep using golems all the time. The truth is, if a Snow Golem is destroyed, it makes me think twice whether to summon another one, or whether it is worth it to keep using it, especially with the intended nerf on supplies coming soon.

  
  
  Then pull out a Sulfur golem. Or even a Forest golem. Or even a Stone Golem.
  
  

  - Also consider this. Once you get your +max damage set, you're good to go. Me? If I want to keep my golems, every use I have to find time to go back in Silab Cuilin to get an awful drop rate of finest stones. You? Once you spend 3 mil on that enchant and successfully got it, you're all happy and dandy. Overtime, if I wish to keep using golems, it will end up costing me quite a bit of fortune, whether it is money or time.

  
  
  Do you have any conception of the time and effort needed to get a max damage set?
  
  Let's say you want Wyllow Horn 222 Broads.
  
  50k each for the swords, because obviously you don't want **** dura, especially at 4k per repair, so got to go smithed ones. Let's try 1.5-2m to get enough broads to make it work. Though, it could theoretically be easier to farm the mats, give your blacksmith the manual, and have them craft for free or a reduced price.
  
  Now, you got to go run Ciar Advanced! Over, and over, and over again. Until you have about 30 or 40 Stamp enchants. Or you can buy them. For 100k each. Minimum. Still let's assume you hunt each and every one of your Stamp enchants.
  
  Then you have to find a good enchanter to burn them. Hopefully they don't fail too many of the burns! And hopefully they won't charge you per burn!
  
  Why do you need 30 or 40? Why, because Stamp enchant is a 33% enchant rate! So to get 2 stamp enchanted broads, you need to run through about 7 broads. Costing a minimum of 50k each. Ideally, since the enchant you're going for is also rank 5, you want 7 stamp broads MINIMUM.
  
  Now here's the fun part - you have to run Fiodh Int for 4 about 60 times. That's how often Horn drops; 1/30 times. Granted, you can settle for Spike which is nearly as good, but guess what, you also have to get R9/RA on Herbalism/Potion-Making to get the most out of it.
  
  So assuming you don't buy a single Stamp enchant, you're looking at lots of lots of runs (assuming you can run Ciar Adv easily solo, or assuming you have people who will give you any Stamp enchants that drop to run with).
  
  And then you hope you get only average luck with the enchants.
  
  And then, you run Peaca Basic and hope Wyllow drops (or you can settle for Cypress, which is a lot easier again but not nearly as good, and it's another burnable item).
  
  So basically, just to get endgame swords, you're looking at 5m gold minimum, or upwards of 100 runs for the stamp enchants alone if you don't run . Oh yeah, you have to repair (at Edern obviously at 4k a point if you use Horn or Wyllow), and you might want repair prot pots too. Because you'll have about 13 or so dura for your swords.
  
  Let's not get into Wooden Needle Wooden Plate Cannon (and finding a good suffix like Dignified for it), or getting enchants like Round or Artistry, etc. Or getting White Horse (I got insanely lucky getting it on my 4th Ciar Adv run)
  
  The idea that golem costs even remotely compare to the cost of getting an end-game melee set is ridiculous beyond measure.
  
  I've been trying to understand your side, but as far as I am concern, your rants are similar to a player who whines that his teammates are stronger than him and that they keep ksing and stopping him. What's the matter on having strong teammates? Especially those that can't keep using the crystals fervently.
  
  

  Besides, training golem isn't something a novice can easily pick up, unless they have a main or very helpful friends, or a rare dedication. Heck, even if you have the golem, there's many situations (ballooning, rafting, Uroboros) in which they cannot even rely on.

  
  
  Please explain to me how training golem is any harder than Rank 1 Windmill? Especially if you slacked off and have to purchase -CP gear.
  
  

  
  And if you think a total level 700 has the same damage as a level 4k+, then just pretend that the golem is a 4k+ player and be happy that it's on your team, fighting for you.

  
  
  The idea is that getting 4k damage should take level 4k work.
• Username wrote on 2011-02-03 21:44

  Quote from Kenero;319065:

  Well, it was recorded against Hard Mode Archers which has the lowest prot but this is basically the set up from Archbaild. Of course, if it was anything like Shadow Commander or even the Shadow Fighter (mini boss, like in provocation) it would be a different story. xD
  
  
  
  Of course there are a few enchants that aren't available or a pain to get, but that's the ideal set up that will take at least a week to get with great dedication. Also don't forget to +3 special upgrade the Volcano.
  
  I'll get a screenshot later as well.

  
  I Upgraded a Volcano Cylinder here on Ruairi; +16 to max fire? It only let me go to 13 Max fire damage. I had the right prof and money for it, dont get me wrong.