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Just came back to say this. The mods have terrible communication skills with the regular members and you need to improve this.


How do we know that the mods missed a report if you people never reply back?
That's one of the things I don't understand about this community, and I fucking hate it.
The only way you got to know if the moderators did the job was if you were close to them (in my case it was Phunkie )and asked them about the report. It should never be like that. I shouldn't be close to a mod to know if they did their job. You people aren't undercover detectives, you're mods and your titles are displayed to everyone. In no way I'm saying you have to announce to everyone about what you did, a simple PM to the person who reported about the situation does wonders. "Oh hey I saw you reported blah blah blah that user crossed the line and I have infracted the user" or "Hey I saw your report, but according to our rules he didn't break the rules because he did x instead of y, but still your report means a lot since it seems you care about this community". Every community I go to and have been apart of (except Nation) has always contacted the user concerning the report they submitted. Why can't Nation, a site that relies on it's users have a somthing as simple as that? This is why at times I decided to insult users because it's pretty difficult trying to follow the rules yourself when it seems that most of the mods are just in it for the title cause again there's no to know that the mods are doing their job unless you're close to them. Oh and whenever you do show that you people act like mods / people with power (really can't tell which is which in this point) it's when some big drama just occoured. Seriously if Kazuni is right that the mods actually care about the community show it to the users, don't keep it to yourselves, mods.

And I'm not sure if it's a result of favoritism or whatnot because I'm not friends with any of the current mods, but don't tell people to add users to ignore list when it's obvious that user is breaking the rules. I've seen it happen at times on this forum and you won't believe how bad and uncaring (about the community) it makes you look.
Honestly, don't know why you're wanting feedback since when we gave our feedback in a certain announcement our comments got deleted with little to no reason if I remember correctly. Also from what I read this topic wasn't needed since most of the replies are "Nope as a mod I fail to see your reason due to blah blah blah blah and the fact that I'm a mod and that's final". You're doing it wrong. Don't come into this thread as a mod, come into this thread as the regular users you once were a few months ago. Stop acting all high and mighty now that you're mods (in this thread I mean).

Also just going to point this out since I think it's unfair due to the person being a mod, but if Elana had her signature before the mods told everyone to massblock mine (Ohoho, mods are going to defend themselves) there wouldn't of been an announcement about how to block signature. As I said to Brad in his profile I had my signature so you people would be like "OMG DAS SO WEIRD BUT SO FUNNEH LOL XDDDDD" (yes, you all sound like that in Compass-vision), but Elana had her "just for fun" as she said herself. My picture was just two guys having a sloppy make out session while hers was the picture of a perso blocking his/her crotch with one leg in the hair, barely. focusing on the crotch. Honestly, how is mine worse? If the mods told me themselves "Hey Compass, we're getting a lot of reports saying that people are uncomfortable with your signature. You don't have to change it since you're not breaking any rules, but we just wanted you to know." I honestly would of changed it, but again they didn't because Nation by far has the worst Mod-to-user relationship I've seen on a site so far. And for the users who didn't know, I didn't even have my signature for about 3 days when the mods made the announcement without my knowledge.

Anyways I'm done, just thought I'd get this off my chest. This was my last post (and I mean it!) because I never thought with Nation wouldn't have a feedback topic due to the moderators clumsy communications skills.
  • Kazuni wrote on 2012-09-17 02:15
    The police don't announce it to the city when they give someone a ticket.

    Just saying.
  • Taycat wrote on 2012-09-17 04:47
    Quote from Kazuni;952360:
    The police don't announce it to the city when they give someone a ticket.

    Just saying.


    You're not helping. Just saying.

    I've seen cases on what Compass is talking about. Many people are informed that, yes we've seen your report and we are looking into it, or even said they took action. I understand many things are being reported, but you can at least inform those reporting the biggest offenses, such as flaming, to someone. Spambots being reported don't need mods telling those that reported them that, "hey we saw it and we got it".

    Also, am I alone with having a public Ban Log available so people don't have to ask why [user] is banned?
  • Kazuni wrote on 2012-09-17 05:07
    Well if you wanted to know then you could send a PM to any staff member.

    You want a personally written reply on every single report you send, from people who are volunteering and have their own lives to attend to?
  • Taycat wrote on 2012-09-17 05:18
    Quote from Kazuni;952422:
    Well if you wanted to know then you could send a PM to any staff member.

    You want a personally written reply on every single report you send, from people who are volunteering and have their own lives to attend to?


    If the report was severe, then yes. But for something small like a spam thing, no way. I already said this in my previous post.
  • Kazuni wrote on 2012-09-17 05:43
    Quote from Mythical Detective Loki;952425:
    If the report was severe, then yes. But for something small like a spam thing, no way. I already said this in my previous post.


    Yeah I read the post. My point is there's not enough demand for it to begin with. I mean the amount of people who messaged to actually ask about whether someone was infracted or why someone was banned was hardly high enough to warrant public announcements.
  • Invertex wrote on 2012-09-17 06:09
    Just as a quick note, I have been reading this thread even if I haven't responded before this. That said.

    Quote from Noxctis;952330:
    Aw. Even if it's just limited to guide section? Cause the banned member only did it for attention and that was in the Mabinogi Talk section and such where most members go. Just a thought. ><


    Attention was hardly the reason. As said before, they overloaded the database which causes the site to crash. I could spam 20 topics in any section and get the same results. The character limits have to be universal due to this.

    Quote from Compass;952359:
    How do we know that the mods missed a report if you people never reply back?
    That's one of the things I don't understand about this community, and I fucking hate it.
    The only way you got to know if the moderators did the job was if you were close to them (in my case it was Phunkie )and asked them about the report. It should never be like that. I shouldn't be close to a mod to know if they did their job. You people aren't undercover detectives, you're mods and your titles are displayed to everyone. In no way I'm saying you have to announce to everyone about what you did, a simple PM to the person who reported about the situation does wonders. "Oh hey I saw you reported blah blah blah that user crossed the line and I have infracted the user" or "Hey I saw your report, but according to our rules he didn't break the rules because he did x instead of y, but still your report means a lot since it seems you care about this community". Every community I go to and have been apart of (except Nation) has always contacted the user concerning the report they submitted. Why can't Nation, a site that relies on it's users have a somthing as simple as that? This is why at times I decided to insult users because it's pretty difficult trying to follow the rules yourself when it seems that most of the mods are just in it for the title cause again there's no to know that the mods are doing their job unless you're close to them. Oh and whenever you do show that you people act like mods / people with power (really can't tell which is which in this point) it's when some big drama just occoured. Seriously if Kazuni is right that the mods actually care about the community show it to the users, don't keep it to yourselves, mods.


    A large part of this is that it is time consuming to write anything of value. We could just churn out a ton of generic "We appreciate your report" PMs if you really wanted them, but that wouldn't help anyone feel more involved (we'd probably just get a ton of snarky comments about them). The issue here is that while some people would like more open communication, some people hate it. We already get a few hostile PMs in response to warnings/infractions or even just locking a thread.

    I mean if you really want to know what we did with one of your reports, just PM a staff member asking about it and we should give you a response. I know it's not perfect, but it's what we have to work with. We also already send out PMs in certain scenarios when things are borderline and we want to clarify things.

    And I'm not sure if it's a result of favoritism or whatnot because I'm not friends with any of the current mods, but don't tell people to add users to ignore list when it's obvious that user is breaking the rules. I've seen it happen at times on this forum and you won't believe how bad and uncaring (about the community) it makes you look.


    And while we're probably sounding like a broken record right now, but give us (through PM, probably to Juno or Osay) names/examples if you really think this has happened before. Honestly the cases I remember don't involve rule breaking at all.

    Honestly, don't know why you're wanting feedback since when we gave our feedback in a certain announcement our comments got deleted with little to no reason if I remember correctly. Also from what I read this topic wasn't needed since most of the replies are "Nope as a mod I fail to see your reason due to blah blah blah blah and the fact that I'm a mod and that's final". You're doing it wrong. Don't come into this thread as a mod, come into this thread as the regular users you once were a few months ago. Stop acting all high and mighty now that you're mods (in this thread I mean).


    The last time this happened was when a certain person was still leading staff. I'll admit I gave out some pretty bad (quality wise) infractions during that time span. Those conditions were far from ideal for giving criticism, so that's why we're doing this. If you're not willing to give the staff a chance to improve, I don't see why you should expect any improvements to happen at all.

    That and ad hominem attacks aren't going to serve to improve the site at all either.

    Also just going to point this out since I think it's unfair due to the person being a mod, but if Elana had her signature before the mods told everyone to massblock mine (Ohoho, mods are going to defend themselves) there wouldn't of been an announcement about how to block signature. As I said to Brad in his profile I had my signature so you people would be like "OMG DAS SO WEIRD BUT SO FUNNEH LOL XDDDDD" (yes, you all sound like that in Compass-vision), but Elana had her "just for fun" as she said herself. My picture was just two guys having a sloppy make out session while hers was the picture of a perso blocking his/her crotch with one leg in the hair, barely. focusing on the crotch. Honestly, how is mine worse? If the mods told me themselves "Hey Compass, we're getting a lot of reports saying that people are uncomfortable with your signature. You don't have to change it since you're not breaking any rules, but we just wanted you to know." I honestly would of changed it, but again they didn't because Nation by far has the worst Mod-to-user relationship I've seen on a site so far. And for the users who didn't know, I didn't even have my signature for about 3 days when the mods made the announcement without my knowledge.


    I'm going to let another staff member respond to this, as I don't think I dealt with your signature directly (though yes, I did delete a post of yours with the full image without an infraction being given). It's probably worth noting that I didn't have much input with Elena's signature either.

    Quote from Mythical Detective Loki;952416:
    Also, am I alone with having a public Ban Log available so people don't have to ask why [user] is banned?


    First of all that'd probably be a bit of a pain to get working, but I don't know much about the technical things. The idea of having a public ban log available is in some ways similar to why we don't allow negative mention of other people's names. Sure you know why someone got banned, but what does easy access to that knowledge actually do for you? Call me a pessimist, but I don't see any good coming out of that.

    That and 95% of the bans would be spam bots anyways.
  • Noxctis wrote on 2012-09-17 07:49
    I see. I understand then. Hopefully in the future, something else can be done.
  • Taycat wrote on 2012-09-17 10:58
    What if there was a mod that...was responsible for speaking with users about the reports that they've sent in...?
    I dunno, small suggestion I guess. '~'
  • Murasaki wrote on 2012-09-17 15:23
    If people are really that curious about a report, then they'll ask. There aren't that many reports, and even less curious people. If there's a report that surfaces, and the reported comment/post/etc doesn't actually break the rules, we'll PM the person who reported and explain why we're going to leave whatever it is as it is, though.
  • Maenad wrote on 2012-09-17 15:42
    If time is an issue, hire more moderators. I see tons of responsible and mature people that wouldn't abuse their powers(I'll even go as far to say that when Hannah became a mod, I was like "Whaaaaaat.") that aren't mods.
    There is nothing stopping you from hiring additional people to be section-specific moderators.
    There is nothing stopping you from assigning various people with the task of minor moderation - reporting posts that need action taken as well as giving warnings.
    There is nothing stopping you from having only 2 administrators(From what I see).
    There is nothing stopping you guys from putting two people that constantly clash together on eachother's ignore list.
    There is nothing stopping you from hiring more staff, which we obviously need.

    If you don't know which members you should hire, hold a public application and run tests.
  • Arsik wrote on 2012-09-17 16:41
    Quote from Maenad;952504:
    If time is an issue, hire more moderators. I see tons of responsible and mature people that wouldn't abuse their powers(I'll even go as far to say that when Hannah became a mod, I was like "Whaaaaaat.") that aren't mods.

    I brought this up before with the staff, and honestly, we have enough staff at the present time. School's started, so as observed, the forums are a lot less active than they were during the summer when more staff probably is needed.

    There is nothing stopping you from hiring additional people to be section-specific moderators.

    Except that we tried having section-specific mods before. That never worked out for two reasons: Now that there are people patrolling specific sections, the super moderators tend to get a little relaxed, because there's now someone "dedicated" to that section, thus leaving just the regular mods doing a lot of the work. Once havoc starts breaking out, and the only people who can do anything are people who don't have any power outside of their section, then it still becomes a waiting game until someone that does have the power needed shows up. And eventually it just came to a point that we needed more active supermods, so we promoted the regular mods, and then the cycle continues. We've done this numerous times, and I highly doubt it will change the next time it happens.

    And then there's the other point where we have seen several instances where the regular mods were shown nothing but disrespect, because their jobs were nothing but tattling to the supermods about somebody breaking the rules, but not having any real power themselves (since one mod many ages back abused his power and went on infracting/removing everything he thought was wrong, leaving the regular mods to only have the power to warn and merge posts pretty much), so they became the primary targets for most of the members to release their anger on. It's not fair for them to face those burdens, just because they're stuck in some limbo.

    There is nothing stopping you from assigning various people with the task of minor moderation - reporting posts that need action taken as well as giving warnings.

    Read above reply.

    There is nothing stopping you from having only 2 administrators(From what I see).

    You mean aside from how the site doesn't need more than 2 admins? Admins aren't supposed to be out on the streets, stopping crime. It's their job to make the rules that the site has to follow, as well as making sure that their moderators are doing their jobs. The only reason that I was doing that was because I was practically, at one point, the only active staff member, meaning that I was acting as both admin and moderator. A simpler analogy is that admins are managers: they just have to make sure that their employees are working. They can help out their employees if they so choose, but doing their employees' work isn't their top priority. So having more than two admins (including Chise) isn't really necessary.

    There is nothing stopping you guys from putting two people that constantly clash together on eachother's ignore list.

    I told you this before, but there is. Staff members can't go into your private profile (yes, your private one, meaning things like PMs, password and other things like that) and edit things around, and even then, only admins can mess around with your public profile. Ignore lists are one of the things in your private profile, meaning that the only person who can put someone on your ignore list is you, the user. The staff should have to be babysitters and put you in timeout because you can't play nicely. You should be mature enough to do things yourself once in a while. [s]Though technically, Chise can do it, but he doesn't put the person on one other person's ignore list, he puts them on the global ignore list, so everyone ignores them. And of course, since the site is changing forum software, to one where there isn't a global ignore list, this point is null[/s]

    There is nothing stopping you from hiring more staff, which we obviously need.

    Again, at the current point in time, there really isn't a need for more staff members, since forum activity is down considerably compared to summer when many of the problems were occurring. Because of the loss of activity, reporting should be more crucial than having more staff members. There aren't fights that are occurring constantly anymore, so there's no need for the staff to be as vigilant as before, so going "Oh, that's not good behavior" and then clicking the little triangle with the exclamation mark will help the staff much more than if there were 50 staff members, ensuring that there's at least one online at any time, and then hoping that they caught that remark.

    If you don't know which members you should hire, hold a public application and run tests.

    Of all the methods I've seen, having the staff nominate who they think would be good staff members is a lot better than having public applications. With staff nominations, then that let's the admins review each nominee to see how their behavior is, and their actions to see if they're worthy to be on the staff. It also ensures that the members are acting like they always do right up until the time of selection. With the public applications, you got people putting on good airs so that they can try to suck up to the staff, and then once they become staff members, they slip right back to how they were normally.
  • Maenad wrote on 2012-09-17 17:02
    If hiring additional staff makes the current staff get relaxed, what makes the current staff the right ones for the job?
  • Murasaki wrote on 2012-09-17 17:14
    Well...hm.

    I don't know people's opinion of me here, but when I was picked for my first staff member job, it was my general behavior towards the community, and how active I was. That's what I was told anyway. We also had a period of training, where admins/manager told us how we were doing, corrected any mistakes, and saw how we did on our own and with each-other. Not everyone that started stayed as a staff member, either.