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Kazuni wrote on 2012-09-14 04:07
Ugh I guess my whole problem with everything is that the TA thing left everything in shambles for a while. I'm still a bit bitter about how things turned out. Admittedly I did become rather inactive compared to before but basically it was waking up one morning and being told yeah okay you guys suck you're all fired here's some new people that we never discussed lol, and you know that chick who was a complete jerk to you and your other mod friends? yeah she's in charge of everything now haha.
I dunno, after a while I was like okay, that's fair, and not being a mod meant I didn't have to be polite all the time anymore (lol.. it's more refreshing than you'd think), but I just don't feel like much has changed. Obviously I see less of it now since I don't see the staff section, but there hasn't been any major improvements, some members are as cliquey as ever, and popular members that are constantly borderline insulting or overly sarcastic will never be banned because of the ripples it'd cause in the community.
I've just posted less and less because I keep seeing this. I don't like to filter threads, typically, but on some days it's just a wall of BR threads saying "omg guys I ate an apple today" or "lol poop that is all". It's BR, and it's off topic, yeah, but there needs to be a limit ._. I mean shouldn't it be the "off-topic" section instead of straight out spam? Because half the threads in BR aren't even interesting to more than probably 5 members and they become increasingly annoying to see. The posts become "lol u" "like ugh I don't even like pudding" "omg how could you" "stahp" "no u". One, two, threads of this is fine, but there're way too many >_>
I mean, I could PM a mod about people I don't like, but what're they supposed to do? We don't ban people for being annoying or stupid or sarcastic. They need to do something drastic, most of the time. I don't believe people change, really. I mean they can behave themselves, but fundamentally they won't change. People get infractions for different reasons. Sometimes you're defending a friend and you get vicious. Sure, okay, maybe. But when you openly attack someone it just becomes not okay.
Like, I had my time where I had to police the community, and I'm so sick and tired of seeing the same people's names come up again and again. I put them on my ignore list most of the time but there's just so many of them I might as well block half the active community.
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Okami wrote on 2012-09-14 04:15
I personally don't really see any issues. Then again, I lurk a lot more now than I used too. But, the only thing I've felt I had an issue with recently was Elena's sig but that was taken care of and I had just blocked it when I saw it anyway. No offense to you, Elena. xD
I know how it is to be a mod, and I'm not going to point fingers at anyone specifically. If there are any problems, most likely it's caused by both the staff and the community. Reports definitely need to happen more; the staff can't be everywhere. That was a problem when I was a mod and people complained, and it's obviously still a problem now because the Super Mods have said something about it multiple times.
Quote from Loopulse;951193:
How about we have mods for certain sections? Like for example, if there are basically no mods in the cooking section and general section, then we would find a user who is mature and active in those sections, and they could become a moderator.
It used to be like that but then it became a problem when a mod went into another section to deal with a problem. People wouldn't listen or the person didn't have the power to lock the thread and etc. Besides having mods for certain sections, we also had just super mods. So the mods that were just for certain sections were took at a lighter regard than the ones who had control over all the sections when in reality the mods were supposed to be equally respected.
It works better the way it is now, it doesn't need to revert back.
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Kueh wrote on 2012-09-14 05:57
There are no "Cliques" on nation.
No matter where in the world you go, or who in the world you interact with, it's just a fact that people who are irritated similarly by your behavior are not likely to also irritate each other.
The people who get along with you likely get along with each other, and the people who you don't get along with likely get along with each other, and not get along with the people you get along with.
That's not a clique, that's just happenstance.
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Murasaki wrote on 2012-09-14 06:03
No offence taken. lol. I ended up changing it anyway, for courtesy's sake.
We can't really ban people for being themselves if being themselves doesn't break the rules, no matter how annoying someone thinks they are.
I do still think Bean Rua would be well off with more regulation. Maybe only being able to make a thread every x hours, or days. I'm not even sure if that's possible but the multitude of useless threads can get daunting, especially those threads created to make jabs at another member.
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Kueh wrote on 2012-09-14 06:21
I've already said this, and I think it got lost in the walls of text, but I'm a little disappointed how Brad's case was handled.
It's his ban, so he can appeal it or not at his leisure, but I think he shouldn't have been punished for spamming in bean rua. Even though the wording of the rules for bean rua changed, the rules are still, with the current wording, the same. Spam, in the new definition, is being off-topic. But, in bean rua:
The "Bean Rua" forum is the official off-topic section of the website. Here you may post threads that don't belong anywhere else, and make replies/threads that would normally be considered to pointless to be permitted anywhere else. All the forum rules still apply in this section.
I looked through the thread, and none of his "spam" posts were directed at Loop, so they can't even be construed to be harassment or trolling.
"You know better" keeps getting thrown around, elsewhere and in this thread, like the older members are somehow
more accountable for the rules than new members, even though the rules recently went through a change. (I'm not saying anyone feels this way, but if you really do feel like older members are more accountable for the same rules as new members are, then you really are playing favorites.)
I'm not in the position to argue for Brad's appeal, but the way he was banned was ugly.
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Ithiliel wrote on 2012-09-14 06:40
Quote from Kueh;951275:
I've already said this, and I think it got lost in the walls of text, but I'm a little disappointed how Brad's case was handled.
It's his ban, so he can appeal it or not at his leisure, but I think he shouldn't have been punished for spamming in bean rua. Even though the wording of the rules for bean rua changed, the rules are still, with the current wording, the same. Spam, in the new definition, is being off-topic. But, in bean rua:
I looked through the thread, and none of his "spam" posts were directed at Loop, so they can't even be construed to be harassment or trolling.
"You know better" keeps getting thrown around, elsewhere and in this thread, like the older members are somehow more accountable for the rules than new members, even though the rules recently went through a change. (I'm not saying anyone feels this way, but if you really do feel like older members are more accountable for the same rules as new members are, then you really are playing favorites.)
I'm not in the position to argue for Brad's appeal, but the way he was banned was ugly.
I think you're missing the fact that that thread wasn't originally in Bean Rua, it was in Everything Else. Thus the reason he got infracted for spam, along with some others. It was only moved to Bean Rua because of the massive amount of spam within it.
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Kueh wrote on 2012-09-14 07:01
Quote from Ithiliel;951283:
I think you're missing the fact that that thread wasn't originally in Bean Rua, it was in Everything Else. Thus the reason he got infracted for spam, along with some others. It was only moved to Bean Rua because of the massive amount of spam within it.
The rules don't cover how one should deal with changing sections. Does that mean a thread can originate in bean rua, be moved out, and then all the spam posts made subsequently would be infracted, even if the thread was moved back?
The reason it was moved was because it was a bean rua thread and had been created in the wrong section, thus the wrong section's rules were being applied.
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Cannibal wrote on 2012-09-14 07:34
Even had we not given him a spam infraction, he would have been banned, so it doesn't matter anyway.
Had the thread originated in BR, it wouldn't have been a problem. However, all of the spam happened when it was in Everything Else, a section where spam is punishable, so we dealt with it. Rarely does a thread originating in BR get moved somewhere else, however, if a BR thread with spam were to be moved, we'd probably just delete the spam before we moved the thread.
I'm also pretty sure Loop meant for the thread to be where he put it, because he wanted it to be a serious discussion.
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ShadowFox31 wrote on 2012-09-14 07:42
It's late at night and I cant sleep so I'm once again browsing on nation. I haven't read most of the posts yet, so I'm just going to chime in some of my two cents real quick.
I think one thing that can be improved is understanding of people. Just how I was telling a co-worker, this place would be a lot better if people remember their p's and q's. Everyone has a life outside of nation, and that takes a toll on each of us. we have to be understanding of the moderators and know that they have their own busy life and to have school, a job, and then modding a forum? That's some serious work and dedication. they aren't getting anything else other then the love of their group, and Mods need to understand the situations of the members.
Sometimes people explode. People get fed up with things because something happens and they can't really do much about it. it's a different setting when you read a post and when you hear someone say something. If someone says something offensive in real life, you can give them death stares or some sort of incentive that it wasn't a good idea. It's not the same on a forum. give them an infraction, but make sure dialogue and understanding is the end goal (if you already do that, then kudos to you~ ) .
And to the members who read this, People are different. As for someone who gets a lot of judgement already across me, We need to stop hating on people if they are different. There's too much hate in the real life to be hating on your free time. If something bothers you, talk it out with friends and calm down. Don't post just to get something off your chest, try to do everything you can to prevent from getting to that stage. Try to tolerate others because sometimes you won't like what your friend/member says. If everyone could just be a little more happy towards each other, we could work out any problem.
And thank you to everyone who does browse nation. Moderators and Members. Nation is so big because of us. WE are the only barriers of our problems, and I'm sure we can all compromise to make everyone happy.
; w ;''
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Episkey wrote on 2012-09-14 14:12
Well ... feedback can be both positive or negative. I guess this will be of benefit of the Moderation Staff.
Quote from Kueh;951275:
I'm not in the position to argue for Brad's appeal, but the way he was banned was ugly.
Well, to begin with - as Charmer and Ithiliel already said, the thread originated in Everything Else and not Bean Rua. The thread's original purpose was to tell the community to stop picking on a particular member. Rereading the subsequent posts while keeping this in mind will probably give you a different picture of what actually occurred.
Now then - I was just wondering, what exactly about the way he was banned was considered "ugly"? In your opinion, what could have been done before, during, and after the events of his ban took place.
I suppose unless you know something else - this would be through a normal forum user's eyes. But I'm curious and wondering why there's a contrast between our views on what occurred. I personally thought the entire problem was handled nicely ... well given how I saw what happened.
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Murasaki wrote on 2012-09-14 14:47
Quote from Kueh;951275:
I've already said this, and I think it got lost in the walls of text, but I'm a little disappointed how Brad's case was handled.
It's his ban, so he can appeal it or not at his leisure, but I think he shouldn't have been punished for spamming in bean rua. Even though the wording of the rules for bean rua changed, the rules are still, with the current wording, the same. Spam, in the new definition, is being off-topic. But, in bean rua:
I looked through the thread, and none of his "spam" posts were directed at Loop, so they can't even be construed to be harassment or trolling.
"You know better" keeps getting thrown around, elsewhere and in this thread, like the older members are somehow more accountable for the rules than new members, even though the rules recently went through a change. (I'm not saying anyone feels this way, but if you really do feel like older members are more accountable for the same rules as new members are, then you really are playing favorites.)
I'm not in the position to argue for Brad's appeal, but the way he was banned was ugly.
Brad got punished for spamming a thread in "Everything Else", which is where the thread was originally, but even if he hadn't gotten that infraction, he would have gotten banned, because he
also got an infraction for flaming someone on their
profile. Infractions aren't restricted to in-thread content, so long as they are on the forum.
Flaming is not, and has never been allowed, so that rule change would have affected the infraction that got him banned. Any forum rule changes are
announced to avoid getting people into trouble. If people decide they don't want to read the announcements, though, that's a different story altogether. Everyone has access to the rules at all times.
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Kueh wrote on 2012-09-14 18:08
I think I haven't been clear on what I meant. Though, I didn't know he posts on Loopulse's profile, so I guess explaining myself doesn't matter much.
The thread was moved, and then locked. Two actions that meant different things. I feel that wherever a thread settles down, it should be treated like that's where it had always belonged. Otherwise, the first portion of posts follow a different ruling than the other portions. Say I double post in a situation where it would normally be allowed, and it gets moved to a different section in between my first and second posts. Suddenly I've broken the rules? It makes more sense to say I broke the rules in the very beginning, and that the thread was misplaced.
Instead, the thread was moved, which would have allowed people to keep posting the way they were, and then was locked, because people were behaving inappropriately for the original section. I called it ugly because users should never be in a situation where they aren't sure if they really broke a rule or not. Users shouldn't be afraid to post something because they're unsure of the repercussions. Ambiguity in the rules not only opens fear in the obedient user, but opens paths for exploitation in the rebellious user, and forces the moderation to handle things on a case-by-case basis, which basically means you can argue your way in or out of infractions.
(As an aside, the thread's origin is itself a matter of contention. The whole premise of the thread was to call users out for their behavior, which, in the past, wasn't allowed at all. I can recall a few threads which were mild in comparison that were closed before any responses were able to be made. Instead, since it was in Everything Else, the thread was left open, even though it was a flame war to begin with. Bad form all around.)
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Juno wrote on 2012-09-14 18:52
If you double post in Bean Rua, and the thread is moved, you won't be infracted. The posts will be merged before the move without incident.
If you double post somewhere else and the thread is moved to Bean Rua, you will be infracted and then the thread will be moved.
If a thread is posted outside of Bean Rua and then moved inside, after which you double post in it, you will not be infracted.
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Noxctis wrote on 2012-09-17 00:40
Uhm, I don't really have complaints except maybe 1 tiny thing. Maybe perhaps, unlimited post for the guide section at least? Haha, I know I can do separate posts but 2 or 3 posts don't really seem enough. Especially if you're trying to make it more epic. xD
But that's just me. I hope it's not a bother.
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Bakuryu wrote on 2012-09-17 00:43
Quote from Noxctis;952323:
Uhm, I don't really have complaints except maybe 1 tiny thing. Maybe perhaps, unlimited post for the guide section at least? Haha, I know I can do separate posts but 2 or 3 posts don't really seem enough. Especially if you're trying to make it more epic. xD
But that's just me. I hope it's not a bother.
That's how we had it, but saddly a banned member used it cause database errors, so Osay had to set a limit to avoid further complications. It sucks that one person has to ruin it for everyone, but that's usually how everything goes in the world :c