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• Kazuni wrote on 2012-09-13 04:51

  Quote from Loopulse;950609:

  Hi. Not everyone grows up the same way or is in the same environment. Some people find some jokes funny while they find others repulsive. Just because someone's sense of humour is different, doesn't mean that you should throw a fit. I see people cussing each other out as a "joke" yet I make a "funny because it's true" kind've thing I get bashed. Why? Well because people have difference senses of humour. They might not see the joke in mine and I don't see the joke in their's.

  
  
  I wasn't actually talking about you but from what I've heard you've been repeatedly told what your problem is and yet you haven't changed at all.
  
  *shrug* if your making threads is making people hate you then protip, should probably stop.
• Juno wrote on 2012-09-13 05:16

  Quote from Araria;950177:

  It is if it gets the job done.
  
  If someone reps a post that insults someone, then that member themselves SUPPORT that insult, and they should receive an infraction for it, because they knew it was an insult and didn't report it.

  
  
  This makes a lot of sense. However, it isn't feasible to find out if they were repped and who they were repped by, if memory serves. Also, sans any actual post, an infraction would be too much. A warning, though, would be appropriate in most cases.
  
  

  Quote from Reptile;950188:

  thanks Kim Jong Il
  
  if people choose to not get involved, that's their decision
  if they like the post, they have the right to rep it

  
  
  In a dictatorship, we'd just ban who we didn't like and there'd be little need for moderators since there would be zero tolerance for dissent. Comparing that suggestion to the conditions of North Korea highlights a callous disregard for the conditions they're facing there.
  
  

  Quote from Cynic;950224:

  Because we have cyber bullying here constantly, right?

  
  
  We do, actually. In fact, you're engaging in a bit of it right now~
• Cynic wrote on 2012-09-13 05:47

  Quote from Juno;950627:

  This makes a lot of sense. However, it isn't feasible to find out if they were repped and who they were repped by, if memory serves. Also, sans any actual post, an infraction would be too much. A warning, though, would be appropriate in most cases.
  
  
  
  In a dictatorship, we'd just ban who we didn't like and there'd be little need for moderators since there would be zero tolerance for dissent. Comparing that suggestion to the conditions of North Korea highlights a callous disregard for the conditions they're facing there.
  
  
  
  We do, actually. In fact, you're engaging in a bit of it right now~

  
  
  Sarcasm is cyber bullying? lolwut
  
  It was my understanding that bullying was classifed as something like legit threats or harsh insults. I may be a sarcastic bastard, but I've never had any reason nor have I ever tried to bully someone.
• RebeccaBlack wrote on 2012-09-13 06:29
  Haven't read through all 9 pages.
  
  Things are mostly fine, only thing that bothers me is sometimes people trash talk a few people over and over again for no reason just because they don't like their threads. Which is just, meh. It's a ridiculous issue in the first place. Like, as someone (Cucurbita?) said in some thread, it's such a fake issue and I find it hard to believe anyone cares about things they don't like. It's almost like just looking for a target. If I wrote about everything I found uninteresting I wouldn't even have time to eat anymore.
• Ithiliel wrote on 2012-09-13 06:53

  Quote from Murasaki;950467:

  On the favoritism issue:.
  
  We've seen people make a few claims of favoritism, and some of them are sure it's still going on. However, we still haven't gotten any PMs giving us actual details about who is favoring who. If you guys know that this is happening for sure, please PM someone on staff.

  
  
  I feel like this got lost in the posts. We see a lot of people claiming favoritism, but no one giving us examples or pming us the examples. We would really appreciate it if you guys would show us the favoritism so we can correct the behavior.
• Taycat wrote on 2012-09-13 07:39

  Quote from RebeccaBlack;950665:

  Haven't read through all 9 pages.
  
  Things are mostly fine, only thing that bothers me is sometimes people trash talk a few people over and over again for no reason just because they don't like their threads. Which is just, meh. It's a ridiculous issue in the first place. Like, as someone (Cucurbita?) said in some thread, it's such a fake issue and I find it hard to believe anyone cares about things they don't like. It's almost like just looking for a target. If I wrote about everything I found uninteresting I wouldn't even have time to eat anymore.

  
  
  Man, this is actually what gets me. If you don't like some guy, why are you even in their threads and trying to start shit with them? If you don't like them, then just stay away from their threads and everyone benefits. HECK, YOU COULD USE THE IGNORE FEATURE IF YOU DIDN'T WANT TO SEE THEIR POSTS YOU KNOW.
  ugh people sometimes.
• Justified wrote on 2012-09-13 08:52
  [SPOILER="Spoiler"]Even if this site is 16+, it's still a bother if people have to go out of their way to block something. Some people would prefer a site where they can view everything worry free, and not just 'everything' that they chose not to block.
  Signatures should be even smaller than they are now, possibly with more strict content rules. Pets and Avatars stretching small posts up to 300% are also annoying.
  These things would all be better suited in Profile pages or even just mouseover balloons where they can have more lax rules due to not being plastered all over the place.
  
  Don't give warnings. Ever. Rules are clearly posted, so hand out those infractions. Plenty of them. I'm also in that boat where clearly malicious posts go unhandled and/or rep-ed.
  Saying posts are 'not reported by the community' is a legitimate excuse, though not really good enough for the amounts that slip by. Get more mods, or get mods that more thoroughly scan the sections they're responsible for.
  
  Also repping bad posts actually should be punished (essentially it's the same as supporting bad behavior). Negative rep is more logical, but it doesn't work because rep is almost meaningless. Whoever has more friends or makes more good jokes will have tons of rep to buffer this - rep is only used for it's intended purpose (helpfulness, etc) by a small amount of people.
  
  The biggest problem for newcomers and some other people is probably the one that the community embraces the most - the former groups don't understand and/or like the inside jokes/posts/threads which make up almost more than half of the forum activity.
  Bean Rua/insider groups should be segregated completely (like the R rated forum) and not show up in the general searches/displays/etc, though it doesn't need to be hidden. (Though IMO, Bean Rua should be demolished entirely. Most circles here communicate through outside messenger services anyways.[/SPOILER]
  
  Above are reasons that myself and many others no longer frequent this site as much as we used to. Those of us who still play Mabi at least casually still come back for the occasional announcements and overseas info, and we enjoy some of the off-topic news posts and threads, but the amount of bloated images (borderline content, size issues, and/or quantity) and (in our opinion) topics that look like attention-seeking immature garbage to people who aren't insiders continues to keep us away.
  Trolling actually became a fun game for us because of how bad the thread content was and how lenient the moderation was. Rule revisions have taken place since then, but even now these problems have not been addressed at all.
• Taycat wrote on 2012-09-13 11:42
  Here's the thing, all the mods are super mods so they don't watch over a certain group of forum sections. Which in itself is weird and unheard of to me but whatever floats Osay's boat.
• Cynic wrote on 2012-09-13 12:03

  Quote from Justified;950692:

  Wall of text

  
  
  See, the thing about reporting posts is that people are so keen on complaining about things.. yet they refuse to help in the effort to fix them. Yes, you can argue that it isn't your job, but the minute you start complaining is the minute you're obligated to do something, otherwise there really isn't any point in complaining about nothing being done.
  
  That would be like me complaining about the fire department not reaching a fire fast enough when I refused to even call 911 and let them know there was a fire in the first place. "get more mods" is not an acceptable answer when a member should have an automatic obligation to report a problem if they come across it. Sending in a report takes less than a minute, if that. So there really is no excuse why members are being so lazy and acting as if they have a right to complain constantly when they refuse to help point out the issues that are taking place.
  
  Even the police station needs help; they don't know there's a crime being committed if someone doesn't phone it in. The same goes for firemen, teachers, parents and everyone else who is in charge of handling or looking for/after problems. Everybody needs a helping hand sometimes and they shouldn't be scolded for not living up to people's unrealistic expectations.
• Juno wrote on 2012-09-13 12:47

  Quote from Cynic;950644:

  Sarcasm is cyber bullying? lolwut
  
  It was my understanding that bullying was classifed as something like legit threats or harsh insults. I may be a sarcastic bastard, but I've never had any reason nor have I ever tried to bully someone.

  
  
  Sarcasm alone isn't necessarily bullying. It can be quite entertaining when used light-heartedly. In a serious discussion, it has no place.
  
  Take, for instance, what just happened:
  >Araria posts a decent, yet imperfect idea in a thread asking for decent, possibly imperfect ideas.
  >member one likens it to a dictatorship.
  >member two likens it to North Korea.
  >member three employs sarcasm and nothing else.
  
  Given that, had I posted that, none of those responses would have happened, the common factor in the shift in tone is Araria. If you disagreed, there was plenty of space to do so without being condescending, but you chose not to.
• Murasaki wrote on 2012-09-13 16:53

  Quote from Justified;950692:

  [SPOILER="Spoiler"]Even if this site is 16+, it's still a bother if people have to go out of their way to block something. Some people would prefer a site where they can view everything worry free, and not just 'everything' that they chose not to block.
  Signatures should be even smaller than they are now, possibly with more strict content rules. Pets and Avatars stretching small posts up to 300% are also annoying.
  These things would all be better suited in Profile pages or even just mouseover balloons where they can have more lax rules due to not being plastered all over the place.
  
  Don't give warnings. Ever. Rules are clearly posted, so hand out those infractions. Plenty of them. I'm also in that boat where clearly malicious posts go unhandled and/or rep-ed.
  Saying posts are 'not reported by the community' is a legitimate excuse, though not really good enough for the amounts that slip by. Get more mods, or get mods that more thoroughly scan the sections they're responsible for.
  
  Also repping bad posts actually should be punished (essentially it's the same as supporting bad behavior). Negative rep is more logical, but it doesn't work because rep is almost meaningless. Whoever has more friends or makes more good jokes will have tons of rep to buffer this - rep is only used for it's intended purpose (helpfulness, etc) by a small amount of people.
  
  The biggest problem for newcomers and some other people is probably the one that the community embraces the most - the former groups don't understand and/or like the inside jokes/posts/threads which make up almost more than half of the forum activity.
  Bean Rua/insider groups should be segregated completely (like the R rated forum) and not show up in the general searches/displays/etc, though it doesn't need to be hidden. (Though IMO, Bean Rua should be demolished entirely. Most circles here communicate through outside messenger services anyways.[/SPOILER]
  
  Above are reasons that myself and many others no longer frequent this site as much as we used to. Those of us who still play Mabi at least casually still come back for the occasional announcements and overseas info, and we enjoy some of the off-topic news posts and threads, but the amount of bloated images (borderline content, size issues, and/or quantity) and (in our opinion) topics that look like attention-seeking immature garbage to people who aren't insiders continues to keep us away.
  Trolling actually became a fun game for us because of how bad the thread content was and how lenient the moderation was. Rule revisions have taken place since then, but even now these problems have not been addressed at all.

  
  
  All things considered I actually wouldn't mind toning down the content, though the nude signature was fun while it lasted. The image-bloated posts actually bug me as well, even mine, but I think that's not something that's going to be fixed until we move into the new forum system, which will probably be in October.
  
  Warnings really depend on the kind of offense. Something like double-posting for the first time could warrant one. However, something like flaming, bashing, etc is basically an immediate infraction. Some behavior warrants immediate bans.
  
  Now, I hate to pull the "you should report this" card, but I'm pulling it. If you're seeing that many things slip by, why aren't we seeing the reports? We all browse the forum as regular members. I often catch things that I correct immediately, even though it's been there for hours. I go look at the reports and nobody seemed to think it was important enough to let us know. A lot of things aren't seen because someone on staff fixed them. Anything we encounter, we fix. If we're unsure, we discuss, then fix, while avoiding letting a situation get out of hand. If we're really missing that much then people seriously need to report it. So far I see complaints but no specific situations have been brought up.
  
  I honestly don't think I see that much slipping by lately but maybe that's why they are. No one's made a point to give us any specifics yet, though, even through the course of this thread. I've seen no PMs come to me except for one, and that was about past behavior, which I could understand. Other than that, I know of no other PMs reaching any other staff member. The main issues that we would really like to see in the PMs are these:
  
  Who is favoring who, and where are these situations we keep missing? If they're definitely there, people should be able to bring up specifics, especially if these are complaints about current issues. If they can say this, it's because they're seeing it happen, right? At least, I'm assuming that's the case. Otherwise, why bring it up?
  
  In terms of infracting for repping, I'm on the fence. While I dislike that people would +rep someone for bad behavior, they didn't technically behave badly themselves (at least, not in all cases. Some people do hop on the bandwagon). I'm not going to like them for it, no, and I'll think of them differently if I didn't know they condoned that kind of behavior, but I feel like infracting someone for repping is like punishing someone for having an opinion. Even if it's an opinion I don't like, it just doesn't entirely sit well with me.
  
  Now, for Bean Rua....I have this love/hate relationship with it. Bean Rua is a great place when it's being used properly. It's fun, people can share funny things, laugh together, whatever. It exists to be pointless but that doesn't necessarily make it pointless. The real problem with that place is the way people behave. Yes, people should be able to have their own little jokes, and their own little fun. I'm not against that. It's just when people get rude and hostile that Bean Rua starts to become undesirable. That place is probably the one to keep the keenest eye on. While I'm not all for removing it, maybe we can do something similar to Rua's House, where only certain people can post. Unlike Rua's House, though, people by default would start out being able to post there. Those who prove that they can't handle behaving in Bean Rua could be banned from posting there.
  
  

  Quote from Mythical Detective Loki;950708:

  Here's the thing, all the mods are super mods so they don't watch over a certain group of forum sections. Which in itself is weird and unheard of to me but whatever floats Osay's boat.

  
  
  I think this is a good place to address the lack of staff that was also brought up in Justified's post. There aren't that many of us, no, but at the same time, how many more would re really need? These things people keep saying we're missing, we haven't seen them. Maybe it's because there's not a lot of us. But if they're seeing these things, why aren't they bringing it to us? Generally, things are very quick and easy to take care of. Some take less than a minute. Some take longer but generally not more than 20 or 30 minutes, if it's a big situation.
  
  There's also something else to consider:
  Some people that want to be staff aren't qualified, and some people that are qualified, don't want to be staff, and that's understandable. They don't have any obligations to this place. This is a volunteer job that we happened to agree to. Basically, people tell us we need more staff, give us the why, but don't hand over the evidence. We'd definitely want to see that first. We want to see how we can improve as we are right now. If it turns out we can handle it, then that will be the time to consider taking on more staff.
  
  As for the super mod thing: The way we deal with our numbers is that we allow every staff member to be able to take care of every possible situation, so that makes us all super mods. If there's a situation and there's only one staff member on at that particular time, they'll still be able to take care of it, no matter where it is. We haven't really seen anything major pop up recently, except for one incident that was taken care of.
• Valkyrio wrote on 2012-09-13 19:44

  Quote from Milk;950437:

  So where the heck do you see these nudge images on mabination? o.o (besides Rua's house)
  And women in the resorts I've been to go as far as sun tanning on the beach without their tops on.
  (Think its part of the french community where that is considered to be okay.)
  You seriously need to go to the beach more if honestly believe girls don't show that much skin in public.

  
  
  Specifically? Murasaki's sig. You'd never see that much skin at a beach. Sure, her vulva wasn't showing, but still, you could see far more than a bikini normally covers (at least in American beaches.) I know it's been changed, and I hate bringing it up again, but the reason why I do is because it was specifically approved by an admin.
  
  Anyways, this is the last time I'm going to respond to you or anyone else about the nudity issue. It's obviously an issue to some members, and perhaps it should be explored to see if more people agree that nudity doesn't necessarily have to be part of the forums. It doesn't matter if it's okay in nude beaches or european countries or in your home or in the president's home. I don't care. My feedback, regardless of how nudity is viewed in different cultures, is that we don't HAVE to allow it simply because we're 16+.
• Justified wrote on 2012-09-13 20:10
  Expecting the community to report is essentially the same as ignoring the problem. It's just not going to happen.
  Minor Moderator positions can be filled with the duty to only flag/report posts. If people feel it's their job to report then they'd be more inclined to, even if there's no real reward. It eliminates the Bystander Effect.
  
  The problem with inside jokes and such is that they're directed only towards certain people. One-liners for the most part are okay, but when entire threads or discussions are this way it becomes detrimental. Forums are a public thing, it's a nuisance when smaller groups do things that only they can understand. Think of a group of people being loud and goofing off in a public place. If a person wants to walk from point A to point B and (for example) there's some strange nerf gun battle going on, sure they can just walk around it, but they're bothersome and still in the way.
  The more distinct cliques become, the more favoritism or un-favoritism grows (for the people that support that this is happening, I have no stance) because people will always support their own group and conflict with others.
• Murasaki wrote on 2012-09-13 20:48
  The thing is, that even if we look through the forums, we can't be constantly looking through the forums. Things are bound to happen when we're not looking. It's not like we can just halt everything. I don't know that reporting should be considered a job since it can literally take 10 seconds. Hit button, type reason, "spam/porn/flaming/whatever" and it's done. It's not like the forums aren't looked through by staff members either. I log on, check reports,check staff discussion, check on any threads with discussions that require staff member attention (like this), then proceed to look through as many threads as possible...Particularly the recent ones, since anything that needs to be taken care of will pop up in those.
  
  The thing is, it's actually really tiring when people tell you, "you're not taking care of this" and you say, "taking care of what" and the response is so vague you can't actually get to that thing you're supposed to be taking care of. People are seeing them, these things, right? Where are they? And I don't mean something as general as "Bean Rua", I mean, thread and/or specific post, or specific message, or specific comment someone made that proves this, and links us to a problem we should be taking care of.
  
  Even if it's not reports, people basically...well, they almost never let us know anything's wrong, I can think of one recent instance when someone has spoken up, and it was referring to a very specific situation, and that got taken care of.
  
  The point is...if you have something to complain about, and you can do something about it, no matter how tiny it is, do it. If it's sending a report, then that's it. Do that. The person won't even know you've reported them, and that's the end of your involvement with the problem.
  
  Someone send us a lengthy PM of the things they're claiming we're missing because we still haven't gotten any. I feel like fingers are being pointed, but then no information is being offered so that the situations can be rectified.
  
  Mean-spirited jokes are not something I'm fond of, and it's one of the reasons Bean Rua needs so much watching. That place can get out of hand faster than any other because people start to think they can say what they want, which they can't. The rules may need to be revised to prevent confusion, since some people throw insults at their friends and some people think it's serious. It does make the environment look hostile. Stepping around Bean Rua is more like stepping around a viper sometimes.
• Juno wrote on 2012-09-13 21:54
  It's not that we expect people to report; time says they won't. It's that we're not omnipresent, so in order for us to catch everything, people would have to report. This means that some, isolated posts are going to slip under our radar. That's the reality of the situation.
  
  While making it some peoples job to report posts would make them more likely to report, it would make the rest of the population less likely to report since they would no longer see it as their responsibility. Then, since they aren't omnipresent, things would still slip by.