My views are far from set in stone

• Continuum wrote on 2012-10-24 10:53

  Quote from RicochetOrange;968014:

  Its the mother, and family's choice if she wants to go through with it.
  
  Not "abortion is wrong and the mom should die!" or "The mom should always live despite her wishes for her child to live!"
  
  
  
  
  
  People are gonna hate me for saying this, but the mother should raise her own kid, even if she didn't want it, even if she doesn't have the proper money to pay for the kid and has to work multiple jobs, she went and made the choice to have sex with someone- she should have to deal with the consequences of her own dumb actions.
  
  My reasoning is still based on the same subject as murder/rape/molestation. If people realized there were serious consequences to their actions, they wouldn't be out having sex and getting pregnant without being ready to raise a child. It deals with everyone's complaints. Pro-Life people are generally happy, Abortion Pro (or whatever its called) is fine because there would be no real need for it.
  
  On the case of rape, before anyone brings it up to 'counter' me- I would still say she has to raise the child. Even if its not her own fault. Like if some crazy driver came out of nowhere and broke your leg, leaving you in a wheelchair for the next so many years in your life or something, you still gotta deal with it, even if its someone else's fault. Pretty much like a deck of cards, everyone has to play with the hand we've been dealt.

  
  
  I just don't understand where people got this idea that they can control a woman's decision of her body...
  Why should a woman have the child of a rapist, or have a child she doesn't want at all?
  "Oh yes Billy you were left here at the orphanage because your mother didn't want you anymore"
  Yeah they will make the kid feel great won't it?
  In my opinion a unborn kid is no human being until it's out there crying, as soon as it leaves, then killing it is killing a human.
  But the biggest question for me is this; WHY do you people care so much about what a woman wants to do with herself?
  If she wants an abortion then what in the flying hell does it matter to you? Weather or not the kid is born doesn't really change your life for the better now does it?
  People bitch to much about others choices, and I'm really tired of it all...
  Kinda like how I've changed to someone who really doesn't care all too much about peoples decisions, as they live their lives, I live mine.
  I don't see why I should start imposing on theirs.
• Chiyuri wrote on 2012-10-24 12:34

  Quote from Drizzit;968081:

  I make a point of opposing abortion purely on secular grounds, that way nobody can dismiss me as "just another religious nut".
  
  By the way, the argument that fetuses aren't human doesn't fly. It's not yet viable outside of the womb, but it still performs enough of the biological life processes to be scientifically alive, and it has 100% of the genetic makeup of a unique human being. Thus, if you kill a fetus, you are killing a human being, plain and simple. You can't logically call it anything else.

  
  
  Define Human.
  
  While i'm ordering you to, you don't have to actually. My poiint is that the definition of "human" differ from one person to another. Not everyone goes for the purely biological point of view..
  
  Some also replace "human" with "people" to avoid the whole pointless Biological point of view.
  on a personnal opinion, I only care about souls, fetus are soulless hence I could care less about them. Heck.. even shortly after it is born for nearly a year(sometimes two), an infant is soulless, I place it on the same level than domestical animals.
  I wouldn't see the death of fetus or very young infant as murder. Simply as an ellimination of some bothersome life.
• RebeccaBlack wrote on 2012-10-24 13:28

  Quote from RicochetOrange;967881:

  Well, I think of it in the way of stopping the crimes entirely.
  By that, I mean -as dark and evil as it sounds- have them be made an example of.

  
  But historically, this has done a shit job of getting things done. Killers and all the other "bad ones" are born every minute because they're everyday people like us. Being that they don't grow on trees, cutting down the tree isn't going to do anything.
  
  And no I'm not mad at your opinion lol. The point of forums is to talk about things and have opinions. Why would we waste time talking about things that aren't worth talking about or things we all agree on?
  [FONT=Arial]

  I am sure it would reduce the rates of those crimes if people realized that they would be killed as soon as they got caught, rather than just sitting around in prison, doing nothing, costing taxpayer money.

  [/FONT][FONT=Arial]
  [COLOR=Black]Part of the problem is that people aren't thinking. They don't think about how the long term consequences will effect them and are blinded by the world they live in. They're too angry at someone, too used to how their world is, too wrapped up in what's going on to sit down and think about everything they do. Punishing them isn't going to stop it.
  
  It's a little more likely to stop fairly normal people like us from not doing simple things that are viewed as bad such as running around indoors or littering, because we're able to think clearly, but even still it's far better to inform us why this is bad. Actual correctional facilities with the intent to facilitate correction and not just hold people in cages, something we don't really have much of right now out of our "correctional facilities", would be a good first step. Obviously it's slightly more difficult than simply saying "killing is bad because it hurts, so don't", so some money would need to be put in to researching how to prevent these things and, if they happen, stop them from happening again. I believe it would be far more effective. Making them sit around and feel shitty just makes them angrier and tougher.[/FONT][/COLOR]
  

  Quote from RicochetOrange;967881:

  Also, might I ask, what would you do with these people? What would you do with some murderer, whom hasn't responded to any form of rehab deal?

  
  Basically, my opinion on this is that if they haven't "responded" to something, we haven't done a good enough job. Perhaps we should approach from a new angle. If we can't, maybe we should at least ask what he wants, listen for a bit, and go from there. We definitely need to put a lot of money into researching this, though, and at first it's gonna seem wasteful, but over time it'll create a much better world. We need to stop fighting fire with fire and consider grabbing the bucket.
• Kingofrunes wrote on 2012-10-24 13:43

  Quote from Kanam;968147:

  Also I like how this thread went from someone saying his view changed with years to religion and abortion. I guess it was bound to happen.

  
  
  I noticed that too. All it took was for one person to call me a hypocrite to start the chain. Abortion is a controversial topic and will continue to be for years to come.
  
  I guess when it comes to it, I'm pro choice. It's a woman's body. Why the fuck are we deciding for women that they shouldn't be able to have an abortion? Seriously now? It's their friggen body for christ's sake.
  
  Anyways, nobody is going to change anyone's opinion here. I guess when it comes down to it, I am set in stone on some views once I get to a certain point. It may change down the road but for now I'm pretty firm in my position of no abortion after 3rd trimester unless woman's life is in danger. If you got raped, get an abortion before you hit the 3rd trimester. The sooner you get it done, the less you have to suffer.
  
  Biggest pet peeve is being called a hypocrite. Just because I'm against killing humans but am for abortion doesn't mean I'm a hyprocrite. Then again that all depends on your stance on abortion.
  
  Pro-life people will view me as a hyprocrite while pro-choice people will not. Let's just drop this bullshit cause all we're going to be doing is getting at each others bloody throats about who's right about abortion when there's no clear/cut answer when human nature/emotions are involved.
• RebeccaBlack wrote on 2012-10-24 13:46

  Quote from TLCBonaparte;967937:

  If you all would just use my view on life this would all be great except society won't ever accept it because it's cruel.

  
  -everyone
• Drizzit wrote on 2012-10-24 15:47

  Quote from Chiyuri;968289:

  Define Human.
  
  While i'm ordering you to, you don't have to actually. My poiint is that the definition of "human" differ from one person to another. Not everyone goes for the purely biological point of view..
  
  Some also replace "human" with "people" to avoid the whole pointless Biological point of view.
  on a personnal opinion, I only care about souls, fetus are soulless hence I could care less about them. Heck.. even shortly after it is born for nearly a year(sometimes two), an infant is soulless, I place it on the same level than domestical animals.
  I wouldn't see the death of fetus or very young infant as murder. Simply as an ellimination of some bothersome life.

  
  
  Define the soul. Then, prove the soul exists; then, prove infants don't have one while children and adults do.
  Trust me, my biological definition of human is a lot easier to defend.
  
  

  Quote from Kingofrunes;968312:

  Let's just drop this bullshit cause all we're going to be doing is getting at each others bloody throats about who's right about abortion when there's no clear/cut answer when human nature/emotions are involved.

  
  
  But I'm having fuuuun, and so far things have been fairly civil. Honestly the only reason I even post in to off-topic sections of forums is to argue about stuff.
• TLCBonaparte wrote on 2012-10-24 16:18

  Quote from RebeccaBlack;968314:

  -everyone

  
  
  ?
• RebeccaBlack wrote on 2012-10-24 16:24

  Quote from TLCBonaparte;968348:

  ?

  
  That's what everyone would write. Everyone thinks the world would be better if people just followed their guidelines.
• Kingofrunes wrote on 2012-10-24 16:31

  Quote from RebeccaBlack;968351:

  That's what everyone would write. Everyone thinks the world would be better if people just followed their guidelines.

  
  
  Which of course it so say that nobody has any bloody clue what would truly be best for the world as we are blinded by our own thoughts and opinions. It's very difficult for humans to look at things from a neutral standpoint.
  
  If you really want to get to the bare bones of it all. Humans themselves are the problem and if we were wiped from the Earth, the land would eventually heal itself and nature would regain it's balance that our race has offset so much and continues to offset.
• RealityBreak wrote on 2012-10-24 16:32

  Quote from RebeccaBlack;968351:

  That's what everyone would write. Everyone thinks the world would be better if people just followed their guidelines.

  
  
  The world would go to hell if people followed my guidelines. But I still think it'd be better x3
  The main cause of =( in this world. Is religion.
• Chiyuri wrote on 2012-10-24 16:43

  Quote from Drizzit;968341:

  Define the soul. Then, prove the soul exists; then, prove infants don't have one while children and adults do.
  Trust me, my biological definition of human is a lot easier to defend.
  
  
  
  But I'm having fuuuun, and so far things have been fairly civil. Honestly the only reason I even post in to off-topic sections of forums is to argue about stuff.

  
  
  You want me to prove something to someone who hasn't proven me his existance yet?
  Maybe after you prove me that you exist, I'll give it a try.
  
  Or so I should end it like this but, the only way you could prove it would be to meet me in person so I can experience your existance, which is very unlikely to happen.
  In a similar sense, the soul I speak off isn't something you can prove to other people, it is something people have to find the proof of themselves. To experience the existance of one themselves. I already cleared that off for myself and that's more than enough. Trying to prove that what I define as soul exist to other people is in most case like trying to prove colors exist to someone who's birth blind and will quite probably never get access to enough technology to gain sight.... Impossible request.
• RealityBreak wrote on 2012-10-24 16:59

  Quote from Chiyuri;968365:

  You want me to prove something to someone who hasn't proven me his existance yet?
  Maybe after you prove me that you exist, I'll give it a try.
  
  Or so I should end it like this but, the only way you could prove it would be to meet me in person so I can experience your existance, which is very unlikely to happen.
  In a similar sense, the soul I speak off isn't something you can prove to other people, it is something people have to find the proof of themselves. To experience the existance of one themselves. I already cleared that off for myself and that's more than enough. Trying to prove that what I define as soul exist to other people is in most case like trying to prove colors exist to someone who's birth blind and will quite probably never get access to enough technology to gain sight.... Impossible request.

  
  
  I hope... English... Is not your first language. You have no idea how much I am suffering by reading the atrocious grammar that is your writing. But I do realize you may feel insulted by this, so how about we call it even?
  
  Chiyuri, you are actually a brain in a vat, and we're sending signals to make you think you live on a planet called Earth in a society of intelligent primates and are writing on an online forum.
  
  And about the soul and unborn fetuses. To argue against abortion is to say that the unborn fetus, regardless of the events leading to its existence, has value. To attach a soul to it would assign such value without running into the hypocrisy found in the argument that life, or human life has value.
• Chiyuri wrote on 2012-10-24 17:11

  Quote from RealityBreak;968370:

  I hope... English... Is not your first language. You have no idea how much I am suffering by reading the atrocious grammar that is your writing. But I do realize you may feel insulted by this, so how about we call it even?
  
  Chiyuri, you are actually a brain in a vat, and we're sending signals to make you think you live on a planet called Earth in a society of intelligent primates and are writing on an online forum.
  
  And about the soul and unborn fetuses. To argue against abortion is to say that the unborn fetus, regardless of the events leading to its existence, has value. To attach a soul to it would assign such value without running into the hypocrisy found in the argument that life, or human life has value.

  
  
  French is my first, english was my second, Japanese is my third but still uncompleted. In exchange for quality, I gain quantity you could say. I don't care for the quality of my writing as long as my point is being understood by others. I don't feel insulted as I am aware my language quality isn't very good, quality of language is not something I feel is a requirement so I don't see the point of feeling insulted by such lack.
  
  It's one possibility, I will not deny it. But so what? Does it change anything to my current experience? No? Then it's fine. To live in this world, I have to accept one thing as an absolute Truth. My senses. If I was to doubt everything and even those, it would be impossible to live. I might sound weird for choosing to have blind beleif in my sense but that's the choice I made.
  
  Don't see the point of your third paragraph..I don't argue against abortion to begin with. I also do not attach a soul to unborn fetus. They are souless, hence have the same value than animals, if not less, the fetus of an animal. Maybe I am misunderstanding your post but other than thinking you got my point wrong, I don't see how your third paragraph make sense if you are talking to me.
• RealityBreak wrote on 2012-10-24 17:13

  Quote from Chiyuri;968379:

  
  Don't see the point of your third paragraph..I don't argue against abortion to begin with. I also do not attach a soul to unborn fetus. They are souless, hence have the same value than animals, if not less, the fetus of an animal. Maybe I am misunderstanding your post but other than thinking you got my point wrong, I don't see how your third paragraph make sense if you are talking to me.

  
  
  Wasn't aimed at you.
• Reptile wrote on 2012-10-24 17:56

  Quote from Drizzit;967850:

  You believe in no killing, but you're lax on abortion? Hypocrite...
  
  No, really though, that's one of the few things I am firm on. Either killing is wrong or it isn't, and abortion shouldn't be an exception. Feel free to disagree though.
  Overall though, I'm a philosophy major so I question everything.

  
  All of my rep.
  Sorry ladies, if you were raped, you should have went to the ER.
  (really, I'm pretty indifferent if you were actually raped, but there are way too many bitches who lie about that shit)
  If not, there's birth control AND condoms.
  "I couldn't afford that"
  Oh, but now you can afford an abortion
  
  Your uterus is yours until there's someone else in it.